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2012-10-13 1:05 AM


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Subject: Washington DC Sports
When the Nats took an early 6-0 lead I knew not to call my die hard Cardinals friend to start talking crap. I've seen way to many capitals games to fall into that trap. Some random guy at the bar was a big cards fan and I kept telling him "don't worry DC teams are choke artists". Sure enough I was right. Oh and whats the deal with the check swing when there were 2 strikes and 2 outs in the 9th? Even the Cards fan said the bat crossed the plate. Would've been the game right there. To top it off the Orioles lose tonight as well. Should've sealed the deal days ago but the Yankees had  two games where they scored in the 9th inning. FML.


2012-10-13 7:21 AM
in reply to: #4452279

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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  



Edited by ChineseDemocracy 2012-10-13 7:22 AM
2012-10-13 7:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
Try growing up a Red Sox fan!
2012-10-13 7:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
pga_mike - 2012-10-13 8:38 AM

Try growing up a Red Sox fan!


Red Sox fans need to grow up!
2012-10-13 11:08 AM
in reply to: #4452279


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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
You mean the same Red Sox that just won the championship a few years ago and then your hockey team won the stanley cup. Then your basketball team won the championship. Then your football team was and still is a dynasty. I really feel for you. Yell
2012-10-13 2:21 PM
in reply to: #4452279

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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports

I feel you. I was at the game last night. It went from electric energy for the first eight innings to total silence throughout the stadium. Just absolutely awful.

I'm trying to remember that it really has been one hell of a season, and there will be others.



2012-10-13 3:17 PM
in reply to: #4452346

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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-13 5:21 AM

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  

Say the Nats let him pitch and they went on to win the World Series, but Straussberg injures his elbow and requires a second Tommy John surgery that would come with a 30% recovery rate. Would they have made the right decision?

 

I'm not sure what the right decision is, but it is refreshing to see a team looking at the long term heath of a player (even if it is to protect their own investment) rather than just the next game.

2012-10-13 7:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
uclamatt2007 - 2012-10-13 4:17 PM

ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-13 5:21 AM

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  

Say the Nats let him pitch and they went on to win the World Series, but Straussberg injures his elbow and requires a second Tommy John surgery that would come with a 30% recovery rate. Would they have made the right decision?

 

I'm not sure what the right decision is, but it is refreshing to see a team looking at the long term heath of a player (even if it is to protect their own investment) rather than just the next game.



Not even a question: let the doctors decide and shut him down. Face it: would you allow your employer to risk your long term health for a short term gain against the advice of your doctors? Not me either.

I applaud the decision and the great season the Nationals put up.

And I still hate the effin Capitals.

Edited by pitt83 2012-10-13 7:38 PM
2012-10-14 12:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
uclamatt2007 - 2012-10-13 4:17 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-13 5:21 AM

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  

Say the Nats let him pitch and they went on to win the World Series, but Straussberg injures his elbow and requires a second Tommy John surgery that would come with a 30% recovery rate. Would they have made the right decision?

I'm not sure what the right decision is, but it is refreshing to see a team looking at the long term heath of a player (even if it is to protect their own investment) rather than just the next game.

 

Why don't the Nats do something I haven't heard tossed around...why don't they just take him off the front end of the season?  Shut him down at the beginning of the season.  Start him some time in June and let him pitch the rest of the season.  I'm fine with the pitch count and protecting his health...the timing of it is just God-awful, that's all I'm saying.

2012-10-14 3:23 PM
in reply to: #4452279


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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
Oh and what about the Orioles Homerun that was taken away. Did it hit the pole? I bet the fans behind the pole could hear it or see the ball change direction if it did.
2012-10-14 6:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-13 8:21 AM

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  



Dang CD, we're actually going to beat the Vikings. Hey, we don't want a gift...... on 2nd thought, given our irrelevance for so long now, we'll take it.


2012-10-14 6:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
tri42 - 2012-10-14 7:20 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-13 8:21 AM

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  

Dang CD, we're actually going to beat the Vikings. Hey, we don't want a gift...... on 2nd thought, given our irrelevance for so long now, we'll take it.

RG3 is simply amazing...just phenomenal.  

2012-10-14 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-14 7:33 PM

tri42 - 2012-10-14 7:20 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-13 8:21 AM

There wouldn't have been a Game 5 to worry about if the Nats didn't shut Strassburg down early.  I'd be so ticked if I was a Nats fan.

...and now DC fans are facing a 49-3 throttling at the hands of my mighty Vikings tomorrow!  

Dang CD, we're actually going to beat the Vikings. Hey, we don't want a gift...... on 2nd thought, given our irrelevance for so long now, we'll take it.

RG3 is simply amazing...just phenomenal.  



Wasn't on tv here and I don't have NFL Ticket or whatever it is. Hate I missed it. Vikings will likely be playing in mid January...we'll be watching them play then.
2012-10-15 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
slaterson19 - 2012-10-13 11:08 AM

You mean the same Red Sox that just won the championship a few years ago and then your hockey team won the stanley cup. Then your basketball team won the championship. Then your football team was and still is a dynasty. I really feel for you. Yell


X2.

3 Super Bowl wins, 2 World Series wins, plus an NBA championship and a Stanley Cup victory all in the last 10 years means Boston doesn’t get to the play the “long-suffering sports fan” card anymore. Ever.
2012-10-15 5:51 PM
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ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-14 1:04 PM

 

Why don't the Nats do something I haven't heard tossed around...why don't they just take him off the front end of the season?  Shut him down at the beginning of the season.  Start him some time in June and let him pitch the rest of the season.  I'm fine with the pitch count and protecting his health...the timing of it is just God-awful, that's all I'm saying.

Well because hind sight is 20/20---NOBODY thought the Nats would be in the post season so what would the point in saving him for the off season be? 



Edited by Skippy74 2012-10-15 5:53 PM
2012-10-15 6:09 PM
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Skippy74 - 2012-10-15 6:51 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-14 1:04 PM

 

Why don't the Nats do something I haven't heard tossed around...why don't they just take him off the front end of the season?  Shut him down at the beginning of the season.  Start him some time in June and let him pitch the rest of the season.  I'm fine with the pitch count and protecting his health...the timing of it is just God-awful, that's all I'm saying.

Well because hind sight is 20/20---NOBODY thought the Nats would be in the post season so what would the point in saving him for the off season be? 

If you read my post I'm not dealing with hindsight, I said, "Why don't they do..." I'm talkin' 2013.  I said it because I really haven't heard anybody throw it out as a possibility.  Ya have to admit, it makes darn good sense.  Honestly, what use is it to have your best starting pitcher around for the 1st 75% of the season when you could have him around for the last 70% of the season?

 



2012-10-15 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-15 6:09 PM

Skippy74 - 2012-10-15 6:51 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-14 1:04 PM

 

Why don't the Nats do something I haven't heard tossed around...why don't they just take him off the front end of the season?  Shut him down at the beginning of the season.  Start him some time in June and let him pitch the rest of the season.  I'm fine with the pitch count and protecting his health...the timing of it is just God-awful, that's all I'm saying.

Well because hind sight is 20/20---NOBODY thought the Nats would be in the post season so what would the point in saving him for the off season be? 

If you read my post I'm not dealing with hindsight, I said, "Why don't they do..." I'm talkin' 2013.  I said it because I really haven't heard anybody throw it out as a possibility.  Ya have to admit, it makes darn good sense.  Honestly, what use is it to have your best starting pitcher around for the 1st 75% of the season when you could have him around for the last 70% of the season?

 


The answer is, because if you do that and the team gets off to a slow start and then ends up missing the playoffs by two games, the manager will look like an idiot for sitting the team's best pitcher until Mid-May.

Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2012-10-15 6:35 PM
2012-10-15 8:45 PM
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jmk-brooklyn - 2012-10-15 7:35 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-15 6:09 PM
Skippy74 - 2012-10-15 6:51 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-14 1:04 PM

 

Why don't the Nats do something I haven't heard tossed around...why don't they just take him off the front end of the season?  Shut him down at the beginning of the season.  Start him some time in June and let him pitch the rest of the season.  I'm fine with the pitch count and protecting his health...the timing of it is just God-awful, that's all I'm saying.

Well because hind sight is 20/20---NOBODY thought the Nats would be in the post season so what would the point in saving him for the off season be? 

If you read my post I'm not dealing with hindsight, I said, "Why don't they do..." I'm talkin' 2013.  I said it because I really haven't heard anybody throw it out as a possibility.  Ya have to admit, it makes darn good sense.  Honestly, what use is it to have your best starting pitcher around for the 1st 75% of the season when you could have him around for the last 70% of the season?

 

The answer is, because if you do that and the team gets off to a slow start and then ends up missing the playoffs by two games, the manager will look like an idiot for sitting the team's best pitcher until Mid-May.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this one...to think a pitcher of this guy's quality wouldn't be helping my team in the post-season is just unbearable.  The Nats now know they're a quality team.  They can afford to lose a few more games on the front end.  Strausberg's value is too great to miss him in the post-season.  Aces become way more valuable in the post-season.

2012-10-15 8:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports

I was also curious to see how he performed on the front end.  5-1 in his April and May starts, with the team going 8-2 in his starts.

Let's say you throw in a starter of mediocre quality, that record would likely be 5-5, maybe 4-6 in those April/May starts...a 3 or 4 game difference.  The Nats won the most games in all of baseball this season.  They were 10 games ahead of the lowest record to make the playoffs (88).

If the docs need him to be limited, fine.  But, to prevent the guy from pitching when it matters most, doesn't make sense to me.  Why not ride the momentum of the team playing better in the 2nd half with Strausberg on board?  It sure would beat the let-down of watching this talent sit out.

 

2012-10-15 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-15 9:45 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-10-15 7:35 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-15 6:09 PM
Skippy74 - 2012-10-15 6:51 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-14 1:04 PM

 

Why don't the Nats do something I haven't heard tossed around...why don't they just take him off the front end of the season?  Shut him down at the beginning of the season.  Start him some time in June and let him pitch the rest of the season.  I'm fine with the pitch count and protecting his health...the timing of it is just God-awful, that's all I'm saying.

Well because hind sight is 20/20---NOBODY thought the Nats would be in the post season so what would the point in saving him for the off season be? 

If you read my post I'm not dealing with hindsight, I said, "Why don't they do..." I'm talkin' 2013.  I said it because I really haven't heard anybody throw it out as a possibility.  Ya have to admit, it makes darn good sense.  Honestly, what use is it to have your best starting pitcher around for the 1st 75% of the season when you could have him around for the last 70% of the season?

 

The answer is, because if you do that and the team gets off to a slow start and then ends up missing the playoffs by two games, the manager will look like an idiot for sitting the team's best pitcher until Mid-May.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this one...to think a pitcher of this guy's quality wouldn't be helping my team in the post-season is just unbearable.  The Nats now know they're a quality team.  They can afford to lose a few more games on the front end.  Strausberg's value is too great to miss him in the post-season.  Aces become way more valuable in the post-season.



I think you're right on it. Post-season success to me is worth the gamble of missing some front-end games. At most, he pitches once every 4 games and he doesn't even get a decision in all those games.
2012-10-16 12:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-10-15 6:58 PM

I was also curious to see how he performed on the front end.  5-1 in his April and May starts, with the team going 8-2 in his starts.

Let's say you throw in a starter of mediocre quality, that record would likely be 5-5, maybe 4-6 in those April/May starts...a 3 or 4 game difference.  The Nats won the most games in all of baseball this season.  They were 10 games ahead of the lowest record to make the playoffs (88).

If the docs need him to be limited, fine.  But, to prevent the guy from pitching when it matters most, doesn't make sense to me.  Why not ride the momentum of the team playing better in the 2nd half with Strausberg on board?  It sure would beat the let-down of watching this talent sit out.

 

While I agree that it is an interesting idea, I don't think that it is practical though. Baseball in April is very different than baseball in June. It takes 1-2 months for both hitters and pitchers to fully come up to speed.  As a result, you would not only lose him for 2 months, you would also have diminished returns for the next month while he comes up to the speed that other players are playing at.

You can't open any season expecting to run away with the division. While they did this season, they just as easily could have been in a dog fight to make the playoffs. If they had came up a game short in the race, the GM would have been crucified for holding out Strausberg early. Really, short of winning the World Series, nothing would make the fans happy.



2012-10-16 3:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Washington DC Sports

The Atlanta Braves handled Kris Medlen the opposite way.  Medlen had the same surgery around the same time as Strasburg in 2011.  They put Medlen in the bullpen to start the season and put him in the starting rotation in late July where he made 13 starts, going 9-0 with an ERA under 0.90.  He finished the regular season with 138 innings...which meant that even if he had the same inning cap (160-180), Medlen likely could have pitched through the world series.

Should Washington have done the same thing?  Well, that's hard to say, and who knew that Washington would have been in a dominant position with 2 weeks left in the season.

But, I believe that they decided to start Strasburg in the rotation in April because he sells tickets.  When he pitches, people fill the stands.  With Washington's increased payroll, they need to take advantage of as many home starts as possible.  Medlen was not as big of a draw for Atlanta, so it wasn't as big a deal for them financially to keep him in the bullpen early.

Strasburg made 14 home starts...Medlen made 7 last year.  That could have meant 7 more sellouts for the nats.  If Strasburg brings in 10k more fans to each game he pitches (over a average replacement) then at $50 per person (ticket + parking + food) that's $500k more per game, and $3.5 million for the additional 7 starts.  I only have to assume that was part of the decision made in the beginning of the season.

2012-10-16 8:20 AM
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Well I haven't heard much about a cap for Stras for next ('13) season---J. Zimmerman is their "model" and he had a innings limit his 1st season back but then this past season just pitched the whole season/playoffs... 

The selling ticket thing is an interesting take---so is the speculation that the innings limit was driven by Stas' agent (who happens to represent several other star Nats)...  Who really knows what was driving the decision..........

2012-10-16 2:55 PM
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Skippy74 - 2012-10-16 3:20 AM

Well I haven't heard much about a cap for Stras for next ('13) season---J. Zimmerman is their "model" and he had a innings limit his 1st season back but then this past season just pitched the whole season/playoffs... 

The selling ticket thing is an interesting take---so is the speculation that the innings limit was driven by Stas' agent (who happens to represent several other star Nats)...  Who really knows what was driving the decision..........

I have no doubt that Strasburg's agent was a huge factor in creating an innings cap.  He has a vested interest in making sure Strasburg pitches for the next 15 years and could care less if he wins a championship.  He just wants to make it through the next 4 arbitration years healthy so he can sign him to a huge 9 figure contract when he hits free agency.

My point was simply what drove the decision to start Strasburg early (knowing he couldn't pitch the whole season in 2012) instead of taking the approach the Braves did with Medlen.  I don't think there is a right or wrong answer...clearly there are pros and cons to each side.

I have to think that Washington ownership has considered this season extremely successful.  They aren't in the Yankees shoes where anything short of a title is a failure.  They have brought the excitement back and there will be a lot of people anxious for 2013.



Edited by tri808 2012-10-16 2:57 PM
2012-10-16 4:08 PM
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As a long suffering Cleveland fan, never count on next year. I was still in college in the 90s and was dumb enough to think that that era would never end. Boy was I wrong. If you don't strike while the iron is hot you may never have that chance again.

Personally I think the situation was completely mishandled as soon as it became apparent they were going to be in the race all season. At that point they should have been stretching his rest, go to a 6 man rotation, skip a start if they have an off day. They re-inserted him after a 40 minute rain delay in August. There were better ways to handle the situation where you could have had him available for these meaningful games and they just blew it.
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