3 dead in mall shooting in Oregon

TriToy - 2012-12-11 5:40 PM

More gun violence

another assault weapon

sigh

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/us/oregon-mall-shooting/

 

and before someone tries to tell me that guns are not the main instrument of homicide yes they are:

per cdc 11,493/16,799 homicides were from firearms CDC Stats

scoobysdad - 2012-12-11 8:44 PM Sigh. The implement of a homicide is not the same thing as the CAUSE of a homicide. My prayers go out to all the victims and families of the Mall shootings.

crusevegas - 2012-12-11 8:52 PM

 

Like a Doctor's scalpel, they are a tool, which can be used for good or evil.

My thoughts and well wishes to those who were affected by this incident.

 

gearboy - 2012-12-11 7:57 PM

The instrument used is relevant. A gun is a highly efficient instrument of death, whether homicide, suicide, or hunting. Ask yourself this quick question - why do so many gun owners own guns for protection, as opposed to knives, bats, machetes, arrows, poison darts, or any other instrument used to to end a life? Because it is an efficient killing machine. Why do men complete suicide at 10 times the rate of women, even though women ATTEMPT at 10 times the rate of men? Because men use guns, while women tend to use other, less effective means such as poison, knives, or hanging.

There is not ONE cause of homicide. And most gun owners will never kill another person. But people who want to kill others are going to be more "successful" with guns than other instruments, and to deny role of guns in killing (suicides, homicides, accidental shootings, whatever) is about as correct as saying that because it is cold in winter that global warming is not real.

gearboy - 2012-12-11 7:57 PM

The instrument used is relevant. A gun is a highly efficient instrument of death, whether homicide, suicide, or hunting. Ask yourself this quick question - why do so many gun owners own guns for protection, as opposed to knives, bats, machetes, arrows, poison darts, or any other instrument used to to end a life? Because it is an efficient killing machine. Why do men complete suicide at 10 times the rate of women, even though women ATTEMPT at 10 times the rate of men? Because men use guns, while women tend to use other, less effective means such as poison, knives, or hanging.

There is not ONE cause of homicide. And most gun owners will never kill another person. But people who want to kill others are going to be more "successful" with guns than other instruments, and to deny role of guns in killing (suicides, homicides, accidental shootings, whatever) is about as correct as saying that because it is cold in winter that global warming is not real.

TriToy - 2012-12-11 6:59 PM

 

the difference is that a scalpel does require training for use.

yet assault weapons anyone can get

 

The United States has one of the highest murder rates in the first world, and two out of three murders in the US are committed with a firearm

gearboy - 2012-12-11 6:57 PM

The instrument used is relevant. A gun is a highly efficient instrument of death, whether homicide, suicide, or hunting. Ask yourself this quick question - why do so many gun owners own guns for protection, as opposed to knives, bats, machetes, arrows, poison darts, or any other instrument used to to end a life? Because it is an efficient killing machine. Why do men complete suicide at 10 times the rate of women, even though women ATTEMPT at 10 times the rate of men? Because men use guns, while women tend to use other, less effective means such as poison, knives, or hanging.

There is not ONE cause of homicide. And most gun owners will never kill another person. But people who want to kill others are going to be more "successful" with guns than other instruments, and to deny role of guns in killing (suicides, homicides, accidental shootings, whatever) is about as correct as saying that because it is cold in winter that global warming is not real.

Left Brain - 2012-12-11 10:09 PM

You can hate what happened tonight in Oregon all you want.....and I share that hatred.  You can wax eloquent about killing, and how it's done, or how it's hard to do....even if you've never done it.  I agree with most of it...it's not a hard concept.  

Here's all you need to know:

There are twice as many guns in the U.S. as there are people.....that pretty much ensures some idiot will get hold of one and do something stupid, like tonight.  You can enact laws, controls, rules, whatever......there is no controlling over 1 billion guns.  They will be stolen, bought illegally, bought legally by crazy people, or just left unguarded.  That ship has sailed. Get over it.

What you can do is decide if you want to be the person hiding in the closet while some lunatic hunts victims, or the person who knows that if the lunatic finds you you have a means to fight back.

If you are the person who doesn't want to carry a gun you have me on your side, I get it.....and I have carried a gun while I stood next to the President.  I can carry a gun into the Capitol by showing an ID and signing my name.  

I choose not to carry.  I choose not to live my life in fear.  But mostly, admittedly, I choose not to be the guy who has to explain how I left a gun unattended while any number of children are in my house. I'm really busy with my family, and I'm forgetful.  My guns are locked up at home, and my work gun is left at work.  I carry for my job....it becomes a brick when I'm not working.  

If you choose to carry because you feel safer and you want to be able to protect yourself and your family.....hell yeah, GO!!  

I can tell you this....Police Officers don't fear law abiding citizens carrying guns....we just don't. We fear criminals with guns, and they don't follow laws or rules. 

Arguing about gun control is dumb for good people....it just is.

GomesBolt - 2012-12-12 3:22 AM 40K killed every year in car accidents. One american every 13 minutes is killed in a car accident.

Sigh.

If only we could outlaw cars.

In fact, Accidents (unintentional deaths) represent the 5th leading cause of death in the US (100K per year) with gun homicides not even in the top 10. Diseases represent 8 of the top 10 killers.

Should we focus on the big things or focus on trying to score political points to remove a constitutional right?

GomesBolt - 2012-12-12 3:22 AM 40K killed every year in car accidents. One american every 13 minutes is killed in a car accident.

Sigh.

If only we could outlaw cars.

In fact, Accidents (unintentional deaths) represent the 5th leading cause of death in the US (100K per year) with gun homicides not even in the top 10. Diseases represent 8 of the top 10 killers.

Should we focus on the big things or focus on trying to score political points to remove a constitutional right?

gearboy - 2012-12-12 12:56 PM

Sigh right back.

Cars are an efficient means of getting from one place to another. This is their primary function and purpose in our lives. And you have to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency in order to get licensed to operate one. 

Are you going to advocate that getting a gun license, like getting a drivers license, should be further regulated by requiring one to demonstrate proficiency in the use of the firearms? Should you have to get different licenses to operate different kinds of firearms (handgun versus rifle, for example) the way you have to pass a different test to operate a motorcycle versus a passenger car versus a CDL? 

VGT - 2012-12-12 6:55 AM

Funny, I'm traveling for work down near the Mexican border.  Giant signs "Carrying a weapon or ammunition into Mexico is a felony".  I looked it up - 10 years per round of ammunition.  Quite stellar gun control laws.

 

 

 

...and we all know how effective they are.

VGT - 2012-12-12 7:55 AM

Funny, I'm traveling for work down near the Mexican border.  Giant signs "Carrying a weapon or ammunition into Mexico is a felony".  I looked it up - 10 years per round of ammunition.  Quite stellar gun control laws.

 

 

 

...and we all know how effective they are.

TriToy - 2012-12-12 2:43 AM

 

to argue that the ship has sailed is preposterous - so we should just do nothing and let the massacres continue? this guy had an ASSAULT weapon - the same kind used in Colorado. Clearly assault weapons are not necessary for hunting nor personal protection. How the heck did he just walk into a mall with an ASSAULT WEAPON?????

Left Brain - I am glad you lock your guns up. Too many don't.

How about the guy who shot his son outside the gun store because he did not realize there was a round in it???? 

Something has to be done. We have to start somewhere.

gearboy - 2012-12-12 5:13 AM

Yes, comparing us to what is becoming a failed state, with rampant police and official corruption, is a valid comparison.

I am pretty sure the police in my area are not in the pocket of cartels. Maybe it's different where you are, though.

Big Appa - 2012-12-12 8:31 AM

I am very sad to hear this. I do have one point to pick with you and it has nothing to do with being pro or anti firearms. You are using the word assault rifle/weapon wrong. People have started to call any simi auto rifle that is magazine fed an assault rifle to bring about the fear the word evokes. I read the articles and from everything I read it was a simi auto AR-15 not a full auto.

Assault rifle   

Noun A select-fire, magazine-fed automatic rifle designed for infantry use.