Snowden?
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by KateTri1 Personally, I don't care where he's trying to get asylum. I hope they catch the traitor. Gonna be tough to do. I heard this morning that a private jet would get him out of Moscow without the hassles the commercial lines are having. It would cost about $200,000 to get one which can reach central America where he's got willing asylum countries willing to house him. He can find that kind of money if he wants to. He's got sympathizers with deep enough pockets. Personally, the right thing to do, is for all countries to extradite him back. I also wonder how much damaging info he still has. What's the ace up his sleeve which makes him still a threat? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I concur. I just wish we had the death penalty for treason. |
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![]() Originally posted by mcgilmartin I concur. I just wish we had the death penalty for treason. Well, that was an easy one ![]() http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381 18 USC § 2381 - Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm... 76 Death Penalty Evaluation Form for Espionage and Treason Death Penalty Evaluation Form for Espionage and Treason under Title 18 (see 18 U.S.C. § 3591 (b)) |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Since he is a risk of revealing more , I'm OK with sending a squad to kill him wherever he is. He is a traitor and enemy to our country. We've been at war for over a decade...Snowden has aided our enemy and has the capability to continue to do so. He has become an enemy of our country. He can, and should, be treated the same as any other enemy of war. Edited by Left Brain 2013-07-06 8:41 PM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Interestingly, so far he hasn't been charged with treason... just lesser offenses. Probably because he hasn't shared anything that wasn't already close to public knowledge. If that changes, sure, charge him. Although I'm of the opinion that if they're going after Snowden, someone should also be busting Clapper for lying to Congress. The NSA is limited by law to gathering foreign intelligence, but they've gone out of their way to circumvent that restriction lately. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by spudone Interestingly, so far he hasn't been charged with treason... just lesser offenses. Probably because he hasn't shared anything that wasn't already close to public knowledge. If that changes, sure, charge him. Although I'm of the opinion that if they're going after Snowden, someone should also be busting Clapper for lying to Congress. The NSA is limited by law to gathering foreign intelligence, but they've gone out of their way to circumvent that restriction lately. The NSA is not subject to provisions provided under the Patriot Act? I agree about Clapper. Bad deal. My other question is, why is congress trying to make changes in the surveillance law at this point? Has anyone been victimized as a result of these laws? I feel like congress continually poking their nose into this is similar to Snowden leaking classified information. My final question is this. Why don't they just send Dog the Bounty Hunter (or one of his family members) in to shove Snowden in a suitcase and ship him back to the US..? Edited by KateTri1 2013-07-07 1:01 AM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() They're probably worried that Snowden has something set up that will automatically send classified info to Wikileaks or the press if he doesn't check in once a day or something like that. It's one way he could maintain some leverage. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by spudone They're probably worried that Snowden has something set up that will automatically send classified info to Wikileaks or the press if he doesn't check in once a day or something like that. It's one way he could maintain some leverage. He'll be welcome into one of those countries with crazy leadership.. They'll force him to hand over whatever he knows, and then they'll chew him up and spit him out. |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by KateTri1 Originally posted by spudone Interestingly, so far he hasn't been charged with treason... just lesser offenses. Probably because he hasn't shared anything that wasn't already close to public knowledge. If that changes, sure, charge him. Although I'm of the opinion that if they're going after Snowden, someone should also be busting Clapper for lying to Congress. The NSA is limited by law to gathering foreign intelligence, but they've gone out of their way to circumvent that restriction lately. The NSA is not subject to provisions provided under the Patriot Act? I agree about Clapper. Bad deal. My other question is, why is congress trying to make changes in the surveillance law at this point? Has anyone been victimized as a result of these laws? I feel like congress continually poking their nose into this is similar to Snowden leaking classified information. My final question is this. Why don't they just send Dog the Bounty Hunter (or one of his family members) in to shove Snowden in a suitcase and ship him back to the US..? We all have become victims, our fourth amendment rights have been violated. Justice and NSA just say we made a "mistake" here or there but we got rid of the info we obtained. Like I believe that since they have lied under oath. Any time a secret court is interpreting law for a secret domestic spying program, I believe there is much to worry about. My biggest surprise is that the Europeans are more outraged about the NSA spying on them than American citizens seem to be. If Snowden tried to "blow the whistle" by going to his superiors, does anyone honestly believe anything would have been done to correct abuses? Heck this monster is still collecting data on all of us. I guess the only privacy right the gov. still recognizes is abortion, and that isn't even mentioned in the constitution. From spending to spying we have a gov. out of control. It all makes me sick. Edited by NXS 2013-07-07 7:59 AM |
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![]() Now here's one for the lot of us. Anyone who has EVER said, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" needs to rethink that mindset. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by NXS My biggest surprise is that the Europeans are more outraged about the NSA spying on them than American citizens seem to be. And I find it funny that France who was so outraged is now found to have their own Prism program, but due to the laws/government, they can do nothing about it. Hahaha. Oh the outrage. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Were I a congressman with something to hide? I'd be nervous. As an ordinary citizen? I'm more concerned about my physical/financial safety from the guys who are out there with true criminal intent. (which I guess in reality, might just be some of the congressmen Edited by KateTri1 2013-07-07 12:39 PM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by velocomp Originally posted by NXS My biggest surprise is that the Europeans are more outraged about the NSA spying on them than American citizens seem to be. And I find it funny that France who was so outraged is now found to have their own Prism program, but due to the laws/government, they can do nothing about it. Hahaha. Oh the outrage. Those of us in the tech industry were warning about this sort of thing long before Snowden was a household name. The concerns we voiced over certain parts of the Patriot Act? Ignored. The major telcos working hand in hand with the government... ignored. This is a prime example of a situation where our elected representatives offer no realistic alternatives. Because both parties are pro-big-brother, with a few notable exceptions like Rand Paul.
Were I a congressman with something to hide? I'd be nervous. As an ordinary citizen? I'm more concerned about my physical/financial safety from the guys who are out there with true criminal intent. (which I guess in reality, might just be some of the congressmen The problem is that people get irrational about their safety. The chance of you being killed by a terrorist incident in the USA is very, very small. Compare that with things you take for granted like driving where the risk is far greater. Compound that with the fact that mass-surveillance is unlikely to stop bad guys (ex: Boston). We're giving up a lot to gain very very little if we stand by and don't hold our government accountable. |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Not sure if folks had seen this or not, but just look at the data base the ACA will have and who (gov agencies) it will be shared with. Just think of the minions of gov employees who will have access to your personal info. It just won't be the IRS who will be able to screw you anymore. http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-verbatim/062513-661264-oba... |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() NXS - you and I are much closer on this issue than my posts will look like, believe it. The deal is, we are our worst enemies. The amount of personal information we have given away, for the sake of convenience, is mind boggling. I'm not sure we can turn that tide back. I can only speak for myself on the front end, but I know what is out there about me, and it's stunning. My entire life....school, credit, residences, marriage, and on and on is there for me to see with the push of a button. So is yours.....although I've probably never looked at it (why would I). You'd be appalled at what I could see about you. JoshR and I traded PM's and he gave me permission to look at his information to see what was there....but I didn't, because it's not right....and probably, at least in my mind, illegal. I have no idea what the answer is.....but I'm telling you....be mad at ourselves....we gave it away. Edited by Left Brain 2013-07-07 10:40 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by DanielG Now here's one for the lot of us. Anyone who has EVER said, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" needs to rethink that mindset. From the opposite end of the political spectrum, I couldn't agree with you more strongly. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain NXS - you and I are much closer on this issue than my posts will look like, believe it. The deal is, we are our worst enemies. The amount of personal information we have given away, for the sake of convenience, is mind boggling. I'm not sure we can turn that tide back. I can only speak for myself on the front end, but I know what is out there about me, and it's stunning. My entire life....school, credit, residences, marriage, and on and on is there for me to see with the push of a button. So is yours.....although I've probably never looked at it (why would I). You'd be appalled at what I could see about you. JoshR and I traded PM's and he gave me permission to look at his information to see what was there....but I didn't, because it's not right....and probably, at least in my mind, illegal. I have no idea what the answer is.....but I'm telling you....be mad at ourselves....we gave it away. That's because you have a conscience and don't believe you can do whatever you please in the name of the "public good". The people in charge of these programs don't feel the same. Sure it's wrong the way Snowden went about his business. I'm willing to bet though that whistle blowers are silenced. There are how many millions of people working in government agencies and not one other person felt like this was a clear violation of the 4th amendment? I highly doubt that. The real problem here is that most people in congress feel this is all justified. Heaven forbid they look like they are soft on terrorism. I think it's become quite clear that our government is being run by criminals. This is what you get I suppose. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by Left Brain NXS - you and I are much closer on this issue than my posts will look like, believe it. The deal is, we are our worst enemies. The amount of personal information we have given away, for the sake of convenience, is mind boggling. I'm not sure we can turn that tide back. I can only speak for myself on the front end, but I know what is out there about me, and it's stunning. My entire life....school, credit, residences, marriage, and on and on is there for me to see with the push of a button. So is yours.....although I've probably never looked at it (why would I). You'd be appalled at what I could see about you. JoshR and I traded PM's and he gave me permission to look at his information to see what was there....but I didn't, because it's not right....and probably, at least in my mind, illegal. I have no idea what the answer is.....but I'm telling you....be mad at ourselves....we gave it away. That's because you have a conscience and don't believe you can do whatever you please in the name of the "public good". The people in charge of these programs don't feel the same. Sure it's wrong the way Snowden went about his business. I'm willing to bet though that whistle blowers are silenced. There are how many millions of people working in government agencies and not one other person felt like this was a clear violation of the 4th amendment? I highly doubt that. The real problem here is that most people in congress feel this is all justified. Heaven forbid they look like they are soft on terrorism. I think it's become quite clear that our government is being run by criminals. This is what you get I suppose. And the money. Booze Allen Hamilton was likely making a mint off of their contracts. As are all the companies building and maintaining data centers, suppliers, programmers, etc. All that money went pretty far to salve their collective conscious. |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain NXS - you and I are much closer on this issue than my posts will look like, believe it. The deal is, we are our worst enemies. The amount of personal information we have given away, for the sake of convenience, is mind boggling. I'm not sure we can turn that tide back. I can only speak for myself on the front end, but I know what is out there about me, and it's stunning. My entire life....school, credit, residences, marriage, and on and on is there for me to see with the push of a button. So is yours.....although I've probably never looked at it (why would I). You'd be appalled at what I could see about you. JoshR and I traded PM's and he gave me permission to look at his information to see what was there....but I didn't, because it's not right....and probably, at least in my mind, illegal. I have no idea what the answer is.....but I'm telling you....be mad at ourselves....we gave it away. I don't know either. I have written and called my senators and congressman, going back to Bush and the original Patriot Act. I went to a town hall meetings, voiced my concern and displeasure and all for naught. All anyone cares about are freebies, grants and contracts and that is who they pander to. The same people get elected because they are viewed as Santa Clause. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() So project ECHELON has been in place for years between UK, USA, Australia, Canada, and I think New Zealand was the 5 th country? Gov'ts have been intercepting phones, faxes, emails for years filtering out anything that looks suspicoius.. Why suddenly is Snowden the centre of attention on gov't espionage that has been happening for years anyways, just under a different name. I havn't read much on Snowden, all I know is it appears that Russian just likes the political "thumbing of it's nose" at the US with it....petty, but when my country isn't directly related...it's damn funny! So what is it with this guy? Exactly what did he leak that isn't already common knowledge? |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by Left Brain That's because you have a conscience and don't believe you can do whatever you please in the name of the "public good". The people in charge of these programs don't feel the same. Sure it's wrong the way Snowden went about his business. I'm willing to bet though that whistle blowers are silenced. There are how many millions of people working in government agencies and not one other person felt like this was a clear violation of the 4th amendment? I highly doubt that. The real problem here is that most people in congress feel this is all justified. Heaven forbid they look like they are soft on terrorism. I think it's become quite clear that our government is being run by criminals. This is what you get I suppose. NXS - you and I are much closer on this issue than my posts will look like, believe it. The deal is, we are our worst enemies. The amount of personal information we have given away, for the sake of convenience, is mind boggling. I'm not sure we can turn that tide back. I can only speak for myself on the front end, but I know what is out there about me, and it's stunning. My entire life....school, credit, residences, marriage, and on and on is there for me to see with the push of a button. So is yours.....although I've probably never looked at it (why would I). You'd be appalled at what I could see about you. JoshR and I traded PM's and he gave me permission to look at his information to see what was there....but I didn't, because it's not right....and probably, at least in my mind, illegal. I have no idea what the answer is.....but I'm telling you....be mad at ourselves....we gave it away. I agree. I also don't really have a problem with Snowden. It's one thing to take information like this and secretly leak it to the Chinese (or whoever) as a blatant espionage play, but quite another to go public with it to expose the unconstitutional behavior of the government. Yes, these things help the war on terror, but the ends don't justify the means. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() To me reminds me of a quote from Jurassic Park. Malcolm says "Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should. " |
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