Shane's April-May Run Group

2014-04-06 11:49 AM

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: Shane's April-May Run Group

Alright - hopefully everyone has some solid run miles in their legs and they have been able to be consistent with frequent running over the last few weeks. For our purposes, over the next block of training we are going to use Daniels' VDot paces for our workouts and we are going to use these to manage intensity on our harder runs. There will also be an easy pace although this tends to be less valuable for many runners, especially those who are running lower volume than what Daniels did his work on but you should still be in the ballpark of the pace - if you are running your easy runs at your T pace, then you are running them too hard (or racing too slow).

First, take a recent race or field test, and plug the value into the calculator here (http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm) and record the following paces as well as your VDot number:

E pace - easy pace - should feel easy and the bulk of your training should be around this pace. Depending on overall training load you will often be slightly faster than this pace but you should be more than about 5% most of the time. You may also find you are slower, espeically when the legs are feeling fatigued - just aim for easy and don't worry too much about pace.

T pace - threshold pace - this should be a comfortably hard effort - about the pace you would run for an hour long race. It won't feel too bad at the beginning but will get more challenging as the run goes on.

I pace - interval pace - about your 2-3k race pace - it is fast (not all out) and will very quickly become challenging

For week 1, take your average volume for the best two weeks of consistent running you have in the last month - 30% of this will be the maximum length of your long run.

Take the remaining time and divide it by the remaining number of runs for the week (i.e. 3 if you are running 4x) - this is your typical run length.
For your remaining runs, look at the typical run length and adjust them by +/- 5 minutes to plan out the rest of your week.

For this week, we will be looking at three key runs and runners with less experience should opt for the lower values of repeats and more experienced runners can aim for the higher number of repeats if all goes well. All key runs should be separated from other key runs by an easy day (including hard cycling workouts).

Week 1

Key run 1 - long run - this run will be at E pace throughout and you want to aim for a slight negative split (max 1 minute difference between the two halves).

Key run 2 - T pace run - warmup for 15 minutes of easy running and then complete 2-3x5:00 at T pace (from the calculator - aim to try to hold this pace as close as you can if on flat ground (ideally you would be on a track for this, if not, flat ground) with 1:00 very easy running between. Cooldown for at least 10 minutes of easy running.

Key run 3 - Hill repeat - warmup for 15 minutes of easy running and then complete 4-6x2:30 steady climb (try to keep the same pace going up that you had on the flat) and then turn and run easy down for recovery. Cooldown for at least 10 minutes of easy running.

All remaining runs should be at an easy effort and you may include 4x30s strides at about 5k pace with 2:00 easy running between on one of the run.

Hope all goes well; let me know what your VDot number is and how you are planning your week,

Shane

switch

2014-04-06 1:38 PM

in reply to: 0

Regular

5477

LHOTP

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

So, so excited for this. Thanks again Shane:)

Ran a baseline 5K yesterday. RR is here, but the short version is I ran a 23:03. That makes my current VDOT 42.

E pace: 9:48

M pace: 8:25

T pace: 6:52

I paces: 400m 1:48; 1000m 4:31

R pace: 200m 0:50

----------------------------

My best two weeks in the last month average to 30mpw, which gives me a 30% TD LR of 9 miles.

Sunday: Key run #1: LR of 9 miles @ E

Monday: Off/Maybe 3-4 @ E*

Tuesday: Key run #2: WU run to the track (2 miles), 3 x 5:00 @ T w/ 1:00 @ E between on the track, CD run home.

Wednesday: 5 @ E

Thursday: Off/Maybe 3-4 @ E*

Friday: Key run #3: 6 x 2:30 Hill repeats, holding the same E pace I had on the flat

Saturday: Off/Maybe 3-4 @ E*

*I will adjust these depending on fatigue, feel and additional workouts/work/stress load. I will not go over 35mpw. I will be swimming each day, but no cycling yet.

--------------------------

Question:

What grade is best for these hill repeats?

Edited by switch 2014-04-06 1:39 PM

2014-04-06 6:16 PM

in reply to: switch

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

For the hills, it doesn't need to be a very steep grade; the key is to use the hill to see you work a little harder than normal.

Hope all goes well, nice work on the race!

Shane

donw

2014-04-06 6:24 PM

in reply to: switch

Veteran

495

Calgary

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

I'm looking forward to getting started. Thanks Shane.
I ran a 5k back in October and don't have anything more recent. My 5k times have been pretty close over the last couple of years and I think I'm at about the same level now.
21:37 / 5 km
VDOT = 45

Paces for km / mile
E 5:46 / 9:17
M 4:56 / 7:57
T 4:38 / 7:25
I 4:16

My two best weeks in the last month were around 40km.
I plan to run 4X week so my long run will be 12km and my typical run length will be 9km.

Here's my plan for the week. (I'm assuming that order doesn't matter - let me know if it does.)
Mon - 9 km E pace
Tue - off / maybe bike trainer ride
Wed - key run 3: 6 X 2:30 hill repeat
Thu - off / swim class
Fri - key run 2: 3 X 5:00 @ T pace
Sat - off / hoping for my first decent weather bike ride of the season
Sun - key run 1: 12 km @ E pace

Don

2014-04-07 6:51 AM

in reply to: donw

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Don,

Welcome and hope you have solid results with the plan - hopefully if you've been steady with a VDot of about 45 for a while, we can push that up by at least 1 over the next block of training!

Shane

donw

2014-04-08 8:15 PM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Veteran

495

Calgary

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

My best for 10km is 44:09 (in 2012) which I see has a VDOT of 46. I'm hoping to be under 45:00 this year. The predicted time based on my 5km race result is 45:16.

One key run #3 is done. I don't plan to share the gory detail for all of my runs, but here's what today looked like...

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/476300446

Don

2014-04-08 9:57 PM

in reply to: donw

Master

8249

Eugene, Oregon

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Planning to do at least the key workouts, but curious....What would you do in a situation where there are NO HILLS? I live in a totally flat place and there are no hills of any size within five hours by car; there's one small bridge with a slight uphill incline about 2 miles away, but it only takes me 30-40 seconds to run up at tempo pace. Treadmill? Hesitate to do that as for some reason it does a number on my body. I don't think I use my natural stride on it, and my hips and knees always hurt afterwards in ways they never do on the road. The flat terrain is one of the big challenges of tri training here--I think it leaves us more vulnerable to overuse injuries because there's not the variation in stride or pedaling one gets from hills, plus missing out on the strength benefits from running/riding hills.

2014-04-10 8:15 AM

in reply to: Hot Runner

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

If you have no hills, then I would aim to do a similar type effort (say 5-10km race pace) for the climb duration and then an easy jog back to the start before starting the next one. It's not quite the same but will be pretty similar in terms of training stress.

Shane

brigby1

2014-04-11 11:19 PM

in reply to: 0

Master

10208

Northern IL

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

I'm following along, but will not be able to fully participate. Not really that close to ideal for it. Similar to HotRunner, lots of emphasis on the bike & swimming going on. And will continue for much of the season. Will still be trying to get something in more so than just getting in a run, but several hard runs a week will be too much. Trying for one solid one soon and may have to shorten it a touch from prescribed.

Shane, how do you feel about the treadmill for hills? At least some of it. Daniels has actually liked it as the grade (and other aspects) can be controlled. I only have about 2 hills worth much for this. A half mile at ~3.5% rather close by and another past 3 miles out that's a couple hundred yds long. Takes a bit over a minute to get up at a rather hard effort, think it's at least 7%. Everything else isn't really any bigger than the second one (often shorter) and goes all screwy with the grade. Think short sections can go well past 10% on some of them, but the big tapered lead ins & outs can really make it difficult to get the effort right for interval work. Pace has to change by several minutes per mile a couple times within the same interval to keep the actual effort level consistent. I tend to just use these for working just running on hills as opposed to specific intervals with them.

Edited by brigby1 2014-04-11 11:20 PM

2014-04-12 3:18 AM

in reply to: brigby1

Master

8249

Eugene, Oregon

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Trying to figure out how best to fit in these workouts. As I mentioned, I'm still in a bike focus and really hoping to stick with 4 rides a week until I finish this round of Jorge's winter cycling program--I have four more weeks. I've been happy with my progress--in my last race I took 6 1/2 minutes off my time for the 62K course despite being quite ill at the time.

It might work best for the next few weeks to incorporate one of the speedwork sessions into my long run. I often do this (generally a larger amount of tempo work than 15 minutes), so it's not unusual for me. I'm holding my long runs right now at 90 minutes as I'm still unsure about summer races
(depends on family situation and professional commitments out of my control--either an Oly or HIM at end of July). My early training was for an "international distance" between those two distance (two weeks ago), and the bike plan has rides up to 3:30, so I could go either way. If I choose the HIM, I will up the long runs a bit (to 2:00) starting in June (back in US then). Normally, 90 minutes at easy pace is pretty much a walk in the park for me. The only issue is (sometimes) the heat.

My general schedule lately is:

Monday: AM Off PM Swim (about 3000m)
Tuesday: AM Bike (Trainer), PM strength
Wednesday: AM Run (would put one of the speed sessions here) PM Bike (Trainer)
Thursday: AM Medium Run (recovery effort) PM Swim (about 3000m)
Friday: AM Bike (Trainer) PM strength
Saturday; AM Long run (maybe put in second speed session here) PM Swim (3000-3500m)
Sunday: AM Long bike, short run (usually as a brick, but sometimes I run first, sometimes later in the day--depends on weather, other plans for the day, etc.

I'm stuck with the swim times as that's when I have pool access. Prefer to run early AM as it's much cooler and we're getting into rainy season--weather can be unstable PM. If I put the second speed session into the long run (just after 15-20 minute warmup), I'll always be doing the speedwork on fairly fresh legs, otherwise not. Thoughts?

2014-04-13 10:40 AM

in reply to: brigby1

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Originally posted by brigby1

Shane, how do you feel about the treadmill for hills?

Treadmill can be great for hills and I will usually use the tables from Daniels when looking at what efforts coorespond to paces. Especially if you don't have access to solid hills or if they are all short and steep, it can be a great way to get in some hill running that is a little more consistent.

http://www.runzalot.com/articles/a/treadmill-speed-incline-table

Shane

2014-04-13 10:42 AM

in reply to: Hot Runner

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Originally posted by Hot Runner

I'm stuck with the swim times as that's when I have pool access. Prefer to run early AM as it's much cooler and we're getting into rainy season--weather can be unstable PM. If I put the second speed session into the long run (just after 15-20 minute warmup), I'll always be doing the speedwork on fairly fresh legs, otherwise not. Thoughts?

That looks pretty reasonable; the only thing I would caution somebody on when trying to do the long run and speed session together is that you really need lots of running experience as for a more novice runner, the long run will be hard enough itself. For you, I doubt that would be an issue with your background and is something that I will often use with my athletes to include a bit of harder work within a long run.

Shane

2014-04-13 10:50 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Week 2

For this week, you can add up to 10% to any easy run (you don't need to if you are close to the max time you are looking at or if you found the addition of the intensity to be fairly challenging). For the intense sessions, we will be adding a little bit of volume and increasing the intensity a bit but the goal is not make these much longer than before as the increased time at a higher intensity will increase your training load.

Key run 1 - long run - this run will be at E pace throughout and you want to aim for a slight negative split (max 1 minute difference between the two halves).

Key run 2 - T pace run - warmup for 15 minutes of easy running and then complete 3-5x5:00 at T pace (from the calculator - aim to try to hold this pace as close as you can if on flat ground (ideally you would be on a track for this, if not, flat ground) with 1:00 very easy running between. Cooldown for at least 10 minutes of easy running.

Key run 3 - Accelerations - after 15 minutes, aim to be at a fairly flat spot (track is ideal) where you can run for 100-150m. Complete 4-8x100-150m acclerations to almost an all out sprint, gradually slow and then do a very light jog/walk back to the start. You want to feel smooth, fast and in control through these repeats - focus on running "pretty" with the best form you can. Cooldown with at least 10 minutes of easy running.

All remaining runs should be at an easy effort and you may include 4x30s strides at about 5k pace with 2:00 easy running between on one of the run.

Hope all goes well; let me know how you are planning your week,

Shane

2014-04-16 6:07 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Master

8249

Eugene, Oregon

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

I'm a week behind as wasn't feeling up to speedwork last week. Long story, but did a race while sick at the end of April, it's peak allergy season, and I have asthma. Did the 3 X 5 minutes today--it was actually not that horrible. (Worried as haven't done much speedwork lately.) I didn't check pace or HR, just ran at what felt like T pace. The best part was that it started to RAIN on the last 5-minute pickup so I actually could enjoy cool, fresh clean air while finishing the workout. (No big deal to most, I know, but we have six months of virtually no rain, and March and April are horrifically hot.) No track here, but I have an approximately 600m long flat stretch of road, well-lit before dawn,about four lanes wide, that I call the "runway"--only one building on it as yet, no traffic at that hour, and a very enthusiastic security guard who cheers me on with "Marathon, marathon!" every time I run past the building.

I'm going to do the 2.5 minute "hill runs" toward and then up the little bridge, so at least there will be a little hill action for variety. The old guys who gather on the bridge to stretch and occasionally fish from it will think I'm crazy, but so what. They see me charge past, hot and sweaty, 3-4 days a week anyhow.

2014-04-16 6:43 AM

in reply to: Hot Runner

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

That's great that the T pace didn't feel too bad - for those, the key is to settle into the comfortably hard effort level and with your experience, you can probably drop in on that effort without worrying about pace too much. I know that when I was running all the time I could tell my pace within 5s/km purely based on how I felt so I didn't worry too much about hitting paces but just running by feel.

Hope the rest of the week goes well!

Shane

switch

2014-04-16 8:43 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Regular

5477

LHOTP

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Last week I got in four runs, 2 EZ runs, a LR, and the T. I got sick at the end of last week and ended up taking three full days off, which is highly unusual. In retrospect, I was probably sick earlier in the week based on how difficult my workouts felt, but I had a job interview on Thursday, and I think I just wasn't listening to my body because I "couldn't" get sick until that was over. Sick + stress = a three day full body shut-down.

This week seems to be going better. Here's the plan:

S-off/sick

M-3 miles EZ

T-LR 10.7 miles did some hills and ran this at close to M pace. Felt strong even with a big swim set earlier in the day.

W-5 miles EZ

T-Tempo, I'll shoot for 5.

F-5 miles EZ

S- Accelerations at the track. I'll see how I'm feeling, but will aim for 6-8.

I'd like to get back on a schedule of getting my LR in on the weekend, but that will mean I'll be doing 2 key runs in a row. Is that OK? Take a full rest day on Monday? Other suggestions?

2014-04-16 11:31 AM

in reply to: switch

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Originally posted by switch

I'd like to get back on a schedule of getting my LR in on the weekend, but that will mean I'll be doing 2 key runs in a row. Is that OK? Take a full rest day on Monday? Other suggestions?

Since the accelerations will be a little easier than a full speed session, you can likely get away with doing a long run on Sunday and an easy day on Monday. I would probably look to run a little shorter than a normal long run and then take Monday off running or very easy.

Shane

2014-04-18 9:15 PM

in reply to: 0

Master

8249

Eugene, Oregon

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Did the 6 X 2:30 within my long run but for logistical reasons did only 3 on the "hill" (the bridge approach). Failed to note that one side has a large gathering area for taxi drivers and construction workers on the approach to the bridge; I've been harassed a lot there before, so not into running past it six times. Approaching from the other direction, one either has to cross a very busy intersection with no light, or take a small circular dirt/gravel road, run about 50 yards cross country, and do a 180 turn onto the bridge approach. So 3 X 2:30 flat, 3 X 2:30 with about a 40 second hill at the end, the whole thing on roads while doing my long run at 6 AM. I felt fine, but humidity very high and shoes squelching by the end.. It looked like I'd been swimming. My running situation is pretty crazy! I'm lucky that most of the residential streets nearby are pretty quiet, though I do have to cross a few busy streets on most loops.

Edited by Hot Runner 2014-04-18 9:16 PM

brigby1

2014-04-18 10:24 PM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Master

10208

Northern IL

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Longer run on Monday was shortened due to bad conditions. Very wet out and temps were dropping, started to see a little ice sticking to the roads (snow was on the ground). So played it safe.

I can only manage one of the faster runs with all the swim & bike, so opted for #3 as this fits in better with other work I'm doing, working on expanding range of motion. Opted for 4 of these and probably just a bit under 150. Have had some hip issues come up in the past from fast work (running into range of motion limits), but think the acceleration part should help vs just going at it. Also doing more high knee and kicker work to get things going before this. See how this feels over the next couple days. Definitely stretching things, but right now doesn't feel like it was too much.

2014-04-20 11:03 AM

in reply to: Hot Runner

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Originally posted by Hot Runner

Did the 6 X 2:30 within my long run but for logistical reasons did only 3 on the "hill" (the bridge approach). Failed to note that one side has a large gathering area for taxi drivers and construction workers on the approach to the bridge; I've been harassed a lot there before, so not into running past it six times. Approaching from the other direction, one either has to cross a very busy intersection with no light, or take a small circular dirt/gravel road, run about 50 yards cross country, and do a 180 turn onto the bridge approach. So 3 X 2:30 flat, 3 X 2:30 with about a 40 second hill at the end, the whole thing on roads while doing my long run at 6 AM. I felt fine, but humidity very high and shoes squelching by the end.. It looked like I'd been swimming. My running situation is pretty crazy! I'm lucky that most of the residential streets nearby are pretty quiet, though I do have to cross a few busy streets on most loops.

Wow - lots of challenges with traffic and terrain - nice work getting things in and modifying the plan to fit your situation!

Shane

2014-04-20 11:05 AM

in reply to: brigby1

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Originally posted by brigby1

Longer run on Monday was shortened due to bad conditions. Very wet out and temps were dropping, started to see a little ice sticking to the roads (snow was on the ground). So played it safe.

Sounds good and the accelerations can certainly help with stretching things out and building speed as opposed to just trying to hit a given pace right out of the blocks. I would suggest trying this for all of your harder efforts and use the first 60s or so of a harder effort to build and then try to hold pace. The drills can also help and, although I usually don't suggest them for cycling, isolated leg drills on the bike can help as well.

Shane

2014-04-20 11:12 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Week 3

For this week, you can add up to 10% to any easy run (you don't need to if you are close to the max time you are looking at or if you found the addition of the intensity to be fairly challenging). For the intense sessions, we will be adding a little bit of volume and increasing the intensity a bit but the goal is not make these much longer than before as the increased time at a higher intensity will increase your training load.

Key run 1 - long run - for this run, you are going to run the first half of the run at an easy pace and then complete 5-10 minutes at T pace before finishing easy. The goal during the 5-10 minutes is to run steady and strong before transitioning back to an easy effort. With this, you should have a slightly bigger negative split but still you don't want a huge difference between the two halves.

Key run 2 - T pace run - warmup for 15 minutes of easy running and then complete 2x10:00 at T pace (from the calculator - aim to try to hold this pace as close as you can if on flat ground (ideally you would be on a track for this, if not, flat ground) with 2:00 very easy running between. Cooldown for at least 10 minutes of easy running.

Key run 3 - I pace run (ideally on a track and/or grass; if not, at least on a flat section) - warmup for 15 minutes of easy running and then complete 6x50m accelerations to faster than 5k pace (but not all out) and then a gradual deceleration. Jog back to the start and repeat. Complete 4-8x400m at I pace with a 200m very easy run between. Goal is to hold I pace (but no faster) through these and if you are off by more the 5s, try to next one and if you miss the interval, then call it a day and run the cooldown. Run at least 10 minutes easy to cooldown.

All remaining runs should be at an easy effort and you may include 4x30s strides at about 5k pace with 2:00 easy running between on one of the runs.

Hope all goes well; let me know how you are planning your week,

Shane

2014-04-22 7:21 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Master

8249

Eugene, Oregon

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Still in Week 2. Doing the accelerations tomorrow and the 5X 5 at T pace as part of long run on Saturday, assuming I'm feeling okay. Still dealing with low-grade cold symptoms--not sure if a new one, the one I had at end of March, or just my body reacting to all the pollution and smoke (burning fields between rice crops) lately. No fever, normal HR during workouts, don't feel unusually tired, but I don't want to do two really hard workouts in one day tomorrow (the trainer ride is the dreaded 2 X 20 min. @ 95% thing) and risk a relapse! I will probably just do the accelerations and keep going as one continuous run, not necessarily all on the "runway", since everywhere I run is flat, anyway!

2014-04-22 8:00 AM

in reply to: Hot Runner

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Sorry to hear about the cold persisting - hopefully it goes away soon!

Shane

switch

2014-04-22 9:18 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Regular

5477

LHOTP

Subject: RE: Shane's April-May Run Group

Nice new avi Shane!

I got all my speed work done last week, but my overall mileage was low. I may back off a bit on intensity this week and get some easier miles in as my legs are really feeling tired. I moved and painted this weekend, which are probably large contributors. Saturday evening I did my accelerations (after a 2 mile warm up) on the street in front of my house and I'm really, really wishing I would have done those on grass or at the track. I only did 6 x 150 and I am really amazed at how bad my legs have felt for the last two days.

One thing I really noticed is that I do not have the core strength that I need to run "prettily" and "smoothly" and fast. I used to be a sprinter (100s, 200s and 400s), so I know how it's supposed to work and feel, and it was kind of amazing to me how far from good it was. I have really developed my legs from riding and my shoulders from swimming but have not been working enough on my core, and that extra mass on the levers really makes leg and arm drive coordination at those higher speeds a different animal.