General Discussion Triathlon Talk » which bike to ride Rss Feed  
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2016-04-17 5:53 PM

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Subject: which bike to ride
I have a race coming up later in the year which has two 1700' climbs over 17 miles, so not too steep, and identical descents. I am trying to decide which bike to ride, my road or my tri bike.

No question the tri bike is faster on the flats and they are similar on the climbs. My issue is the descents. I am much more comfortable on the road bike and therefore ride more aggressively. I am less comfortable on the downhill runs on the tri bike, it gets too fast for me. As a result I am not down on the aero bars but up on the brakes.

I am going to spend as much time as possible on the tri bike as I can but based on where I am today, does it make sense to use the road bike?



2016-04-18 7:08 AM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
Originally posted by Stuartap

I have a race coming up later in the year which has two 1700' climbs over 17 miles, so not too steep, and identical descents. I am trying to decide which bike to ride, my road or my tri bike.

No question the tri bike is faster on the flats and they are similar on the climbs. My issue is the descents. I am much more comfortable on the road bike and therefore ride more aggressively. I am less comfortable on the downhill runs on the tri bike, it gets too fast for me. As a result I am not down on the aero bars but up on the brakes.

I am going to spend as much time as possible on the tri bike as I can but based on where I am today, does it make sense to use the road bike?




When you descend on the tri bike and you say it gets too fast, are you going down hills faster on the tri bike than on the road bike? take a look at you gps data from doing the same hill on both bikes. If you are descending a hill on the hoods of your tri bike at 45mph, and only doing 40 mph on the road bike than I would say use the tri bike. If it is opposite where you descend faster on the road bike than it depends on the rest of the coarse.
2016-04-18 7:55 AM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Champion
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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

Originally posted by Stuartap I am much more comfortable on the road bike and therefore ride more aggressively. I am less comfortable on the downhill runs on the tri bike, it gets too fast for me. As a result I am not down on the aero bars but up on the brakes.

Address WHY you're not as comfortable on the tri bike in those situations. Is it a mental thing? Is it because your hands aren't on the brake levers? Is "too fast" the same on both bikes?

2016-04-18 10:50 AM
in reply to: briderdt

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
On the tri bike the speed picks up much faster. As a result I tend to ride the brakes more on the tri bike. I have compared the speed on downhill sections and I ride faster downhill on my road bike. Also on a long downhill since I am staying on the brakes I don't shift since the only shifters are at the end of my aero bars.

Is it mental, I am sure it is. I just don't have the same confidence when, as asked, I don't have my hands on the brakes. As I said originally, I ride descents with more confidence on my road bike. So combine that with the added ability to shift when called for, the road bike yields a better average speed on the downhill.

2016-04-18 11:43 AM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
I can definitely understand that. I just got a tri bike and am new to aero bars. I am not the world's bravest descender (lots of steep, winding roads around here), and it took a few rides before I broke 35 mph on my tri bike. Not being able to feather the brakes makes me nervous, and if there is a sharp bend in the road, I come out of aero.

I don't have any real advice about which bike to ride. Personally, with that much climbing, I would go with a road bike, but that is only because my tri bike climbs like brick.
2016-04-18 12:48 PM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

Originally posted by Stuartap On the tri bike the speed picks up much faster. As a result I tend to ride the brakes more on the tri bike. I have compared the speed on downhill sections and I ride faster downhill on my road bike. Also on a long downhill since I am staying on the brakes I don't shift since the only shifters are at the end of my aero bars. Is it mental, I am sure it is. I just don't have the same confidence when, as asked, I don't have my hands on the brakes. As I said originally, I ride descents with more confidence on my road bike. So combine that with the added ability to shift when called for, the road bike yields a better average speed on the downhill.

Staying in aero isn't necessarily always the fastest. I've put my hands out on the base and can then drop my torso even lower. Also make sure to keep elbows tucked in. Might be able to go faster like this. For the gear, I'll pop it into a big one and just leave it there. I can pedal a wider cadence well enough and know I won't be putting out lots of power when going faster as it doesn't really gain a whole lot.

Getting used to the grip and feel can take some practice. Different bars can do this better than others too. Even with a slight bend at the front, they usually don't inspire as much confidence as the roadie drop bars do. There is also getting used to the feel of the turn. Decent road bikes can feel like they're really meant to be thrown over into a hard turn. Tri bikes are meant to go straighter and can feel a little funnier when trying to corner hard. It's in the steering geometry and weight balance where they'll do good for tracking straight, but then may seem twitchier if you try to lean over farther and faster. It takes some practice to get used to.

I'm faster climbing with the tri bike than road, so have been ok there. I'm not sure why some people are slower, but it does seem to happen. Mine haven't really been heavier, have definitely been more aero, and can put out power just as well in them.



2016-04-18 2:09 PM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

Is this a point to point course with only one descent?

Just doing the math, if it's two 1700' climbs, over 17 miles, and is net elevation gain of 0, then even if there is no flat riding, you are either going up or down a 7.5% grade.  3400' total climbing, 8.5 miles of uphill, 8.5 miles of downhill.

If that were the case, I'd probably use a rode bike as my tt bike is not fit with the bull horns in an ideal climbing position.  I'm certainly not going to be climbing a 7.5% grade on the aerobars.  Even for the downhills, I rather descend a 7.5% grade on a road bike.  You don't even have to worry about pedaling at that steep a descent, so it's all about getting lower and having confidence braking and turning.  As Ben mentioned above, you can likely get lower on a road bike assuming you don't have to pedal.

If there are any flat portions on the course...then the average grade climbing and descending is steeper.  If it is a point to point net elevation gain, then it depends I guess.

2016-04-18 2:48 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

Originally posted by Jason N

Is this a point to point course with only one descent?

Just doing the math, if it's two 1700' climbs, over 17 miles, and is net elevation gain of 0, then even if there is no flat riding, you are either going up or down a 7.5% grade.  3400' total climbing, 8.5 miles of uphill, 8.5 miles of downhill.

If that were the case, I'd probably use a rode bike as my tt bike is not fit with the bull horns in an ideal climbing position.  I'm certainly not going to be climbing a 7.5% grade on the aerobars.  Even for the downhills, I rather descend a 7.5% grade on a road bike.  You don't even have to worry about pedaling at that steep a descent, so it's all about getting lower and having confidence braking and turning.  As Ben mentioned above, you can likely get lower on a road bike assuming you don't have to pedal.

If there are any flat portions on the course...then the average grade climbing and descending is steeper.  If it is a point to point net elevation gain, then it depends I guess.

That part was actually entirely about the tri bike. Getting lower when out on the base bar/horns might be faster than staying on the aero bars. In comparison to a road bike, I don't know. I've been faster on tri bike here too though lots of people who know what they're talking about can get a lot of speed on the road bike as well. Especially getting into a pro level tuck (that I doubt Stuart is going to do ).

I've taken the road bike up to hilly areas after being on the tri bike for awhile and didn't descend any faster in the turns. There was just too much shadow camouflage in sections and the turns themselves were quite blind on narrow-ish roads with a very real chance of gravel and sand coverage just around the corner. This is not to say one bike or the other, but thinking things through as answers may be different for various reasons.

2016-04-18 6:28 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
To clarify, two climbs, each of which is 1700' elevation gain over 17 miles. Not steep but 3400' of climb on this hill total (because you climb it twice). I am planning on stopping there next month to actually drive at a minimum, ride if I can, well in advance of the race. That will tell me a lot.

BTW - no, at age 60 I will not be getting in to any pro level anything, much less contorting my body in to that aggressive a tuck.

I do already take my descents in a heavy gear and leave it there on the tri bike. It works most of the time.I am getting far better on my transitions to the aero bars and brakes but on a lot of hills here, the time is just too short to bother.

Thanks for the feedback!
2016-04-18 7:42 PM
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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
2016-04-18 8:43 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

That would be helpful but I am looking at my last race of the year: https://www.strava.com/routes/4068892

For Tour I am riding my road bike with my TDC team.

Thanks,


2016-04-18 11:52 PM
in reply to: #5177565


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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
Tough call. Is the route close enough to you that you can go ride it on both bikes before the race and just see which is faster? My road bike is faster for me on extended climbs that have a lot of variation in slope because of the ease of the shifting when out of the saddle,

BUT

it takes a HELL of a lot of climbing gains to overcome the advantages of being in aero the rest of the time, so, my inclination would be to race the tri bike..
2016-04-19 4:45 AM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
Stuart, I am the worlds biggest chicken when descending in the aerobars.
Once I hit say 30mph, I am even scared to get out of aero onto the bulllhorns.

So I make sure I get my hands on the bullhorns relatively early but stay somewhat tucked.
My hands are near the brakes and if I go way too fast I can just sit up a bit and slow myself down



You can even rest your head :-)
2016-04-19 8:44 AM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

Originally posted by Stuartap That would be helpful but I am looking at my last race of the year: https://www.strava.com/routes/4068892For Tour I am riding my road bike with my TDC team. Thanks,

Thanks! Hadn't thought to look at the HITS course too. From what I can see, that looks more relaxed then the craziness some of us may have been thinking. The overall grade is still low (under 2%) even though spots may be quicker. People should still use aero quite a bit going up. Coming down, it'll help boost the speed certainly, but also doesn't look like a crazy roller coaster ride. That top mile looks the most interesting. Keep working on getting more comfortable with the various suggestions and see how you feel. A December race is still quite a ways off.

2016-04-19 9:01 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Stuartap That would be helpful but I am looking at my last race of the year: https://www.strava.com/routes/4068892For Tour I am riding my road bike with my TDC team. Thanks,

Thanks! Hadn't thought to look at the HITS course too. From what I can see, that looks more relaxed then the craziness some of us may have been thinking. The overall grade is still low (under 2%) even though spots may be quicker. People should still use aero quite a bit going up. Coming down, it'll help boost the speed certainly, but also doesn't look like a crazy roller coaster ride. That top mile looks the most interesting. Keep working on getting more comfortable with the various suggestions and see how you feel. A December race is still quite a ways off.

Also, if you look at the KOM for the descent, the guy - a Canadian of course  - never exceeded 40 mph yet was putting out 260w on a decked out P5.  



Edited by axteraa 2016-04-19 9:04 AM
2016-04-19 10:13 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: which bike to ride
I did talk with the wife last night and we will be stopping in Palm Springs next month on the way back from a trip to AZ to see family. I will get to ride it which will tell me quite a bit. What I can't tell from the race map is how technical the downhill is. It looks relatively straight compared to any such ride here in the north end of the state that has that much climb.

Getting to ride it and more time in the saddle on the tri bike hopefully will get me there. The tri bike would be my preference.

Thanks for all the feedback.



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