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2018-01-29 2:03 PM
in reply to: MOlsen

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

Originally posted by MOlsen

Originally posted by firebert

Originally posted by bulfrog CURRENT TRAINING: Running. Aiming for 5-6 days a week. Been managing 3 so far this year... not good enough. 

Welcome back Andrew!

And don't knock running 3 days a week - I crushed a Half Marathon PR in October on nothing but 3 days/week running.

Heck, in 2016 when I ran 8 HM's I was only running 3 days a week. My regiment consisted of two short runs during the week and a long one on the weekends. Granted I'm a middle of the pack runner and my HM's were in the 2:00-2:15 range so it really depends on what your targets are.

Excellent point Mark.  If we're talking MOP then 3x/week should be all you need.  I am also a MOP and did pretty much the same - 45 min maintenance runs tues/thurs (Tuesday slow recovery, Thursday tempo - or just whatever I could manage lol) and weekend long run or speed work, alternating weekends.  

If you're a fast guy then you probably need a 5-6 day a week regimen with recovery days, track days, drills, etc.



2018-01-29 3:14 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by drfoodlove

This injury is a wake up call that I'm not as young as I once was and must do my flexibility and recovery work diligently.


OMG I feel like I've said this a hundred times the past couple of years, LOL!!! :-)

Sandi
2018-01-29 3:27 PM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
I've also only ever run 3x/week, or every other day at best. Occasionally when doing brick work a 4th. There's just only so many hours in a day I can work out, and if I'm going to swim and bike too (let alone other things like pilates/strength training), I have to have some breaks and balance. But I'm also just average too...I've done well in my age group with strengths here and there but I'm never winning a race.

Met my goals this week...three runs and a swim. I wanted to either do pilates or a second swim yesterday, but ended up walking the dog another 5 miles and was happy enough with this. With the diet my body was definitely saying I needed to stop.

Goals this week:

1) Three runs, two at least 32 minutes.
2) Two swims

Next week I'm changing up my diet a bit, adding in a bit more (and beer thank god), so will increase quantity/distance as well. Just being realistic and safe. I'm down a few pounds and am really pleased with how well I've managed balancing everything.

Sandi

2018-01-29 3:40 PM
in reply to: aviatrix802

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by aviatrix802

Oh, Sandi, I’ve gotten some reviews from people who really like the swim tethers that attach to the ankles. They felt it was a more natural feeling. I’ll see if I can pull some links from the ones some folks recommended.


Thanks, keep me updated. My feet get so damn crampy in the pool I worry about the ankles (it's odd, I only cramp in the pool and it's only my toes!!). Thus far the one I think might work the best is one that attaches to the handle of the stairs, assuming the setup of the pool worked out angle-wise. I'm also intrigued by the lane ones, but I just don't see how hands wouldn't frequently tangle in the lines...my hands are much longer than my torso!!! And half the reason I am interested is because the lap lanes in some pools I can go to are often super crowded making a focused workout difficult, whereas if I can just hook up in the stairs portion of the pool during a quieter part of the day and go for a period of time I thought I might improve. For that matter, it also would work in the lake at a dock if OWS is impractical or unsafe.

Sandi
2018-01-29 3:52 PM
in reply to: aviatrix802

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by aviatrix802

Andrew, good to see you back! How's the baby and mom doing?? Hopefully everyone is sleeping through the night now!


Thanks, The little man is doing well, not yet crawling, but is very close. He starts kindy tomorrow, growing up so fast. Mrs Bullfrog is also good, she's at work 3 days a week now, so getting back into something like normal life
2018-01-29 3:54 PM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by firebert

Originally posted by bulfrog CURRENT TRAINING: Running. Aiming for 5-6 days a week. Been managing 3 so far this year... not good enough. 

Welcome back Andrew!

And don't knock running 3 days a week - I crushed a Half Marathon PR in October on nothing but 3 days/week running.




Thanks,

My problem is its 3 short runs a week haha. Still better than 0 runs a week tho


2018-01-29 4:07 PM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by firebert

Originally posted by MOlsen

Originally posted by firebert

Originally posted by bulfrog CURRENT TRAINING: Running. Aiming for 5-6 days a week. Been managing 3 so far this year... not good enough. 

Welcome back Andrew!

And don't knock running 3 days a week - I crushed a Half Marathon PR in October on nothing but 3 days/week running.

Heck, in 2016 when I ran 8 HM's I was only running 3 days a week. My regiment consisted of two short runs during the week and a long one on the weekends. Granted I'm a middle of the pack runner and my HM's were in the 2:00-2:15 range so it really depends on what your targets are.

Excellent point Mark.  If we're talking MOP then 3x/week should be all you need.  I am also a MOP and did pretty much the same - 45 min maintenance runs tues/thurs (Tuesday slow recovery, Thursday tempo - or just whatever I could manage lol) and weekend long run or speed work, alternating weekends.  

If you're a fast guy then you probably need a 5-6 day a week regimen with recovery days, track days, drills, etc.




Don't forget I'm not swimming or biking at the moment, so don't need to spread the hours around.

My intentions for the year is to run in the mornings 530am or so before work/the family wakes, with 1 long run on the weekend, in day light. Part of my deal with Mrs Bullfrog is no workouts after work. We only have a few hours family time before the little man goes to sleep, so I'm not going to get home, and head straight back out the door like I used to.

So really it's just a case of getting myself up and out of bed 30 minutes earlier. which I have been struggling with at times. I really feel that 5-6 runs a week (30 minutes or so on week days, 60+ on weekend should be easy enough to achieve) After all, circumstances have changed but it's not that long ago I was putting in 13-14 hours a week in Ironman training... Comparing my current self, to what I used to do is one of my faults...

Goals wise, my HM PB is 2:03:xx, set when i did a HM as a long training run building up for my first 70.3. I know I could have gone faster that day if I had pushed. I'm not near that level of fitness now, my current goal is to get back to being able to do a HM without needing to run walk, and once there I want to break that PB by the end of the year. If I'm only going to run for the next 12-18 months I want to really work on it, so when I get back to Tri's one day, I can use that run fitness to run people down.
2018-01-29 4:10 PM
in reply to: EHouse20

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by EHouse20

Andrew, glad to have you back in and have another new dad, my daughter is 8 months as well. I think we chatted a little after I joined the group late last year. Bounce ideas off each other on how to get workouts in...ha

I did get my first brick (I guess) in today...really just because I missed my run yesterday and I knew it was a short one. I rode for 35' on the spin bike and then ran for 15' on the treadmill. It wasn't too bad for the first time ever riding and running back to back. My quads were pretty heavy getting off the bike though but were ok by the time I started running. I'm sure I will feel it tomorrow though. Hope everyone has a great weekend...I have a new brew kit I've been sitting on since Christmas (8 month old problems...ha), so hopefully I can get that started this weekend.

Eric


Yup, I remember, And I still think you're mad starting a tri habit with a new baby.

Can I ask, how are you fitting in the workouts, without sacrificing something? Early mornings like me, or do yo uhave some other plan?

And I forget, is this your first baby or are you a veteran?
2018-01-29 4:13 PM
in reply to: bulfrog

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Thanks for the welcome back everyone. It's good to see lots of productive workouts happening. Although not so great that people keep ending up in MRI machines.

I've had a productive few days, 4 runs in a row, the most consistent streak of the year (which is a bit sad!) hopefully that consistency continues.
2018-01-29 5:24 PM
in reply to: bulfrog

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

Originally posted by bulfrog Thanks for the welcome back everyone. It's good to see lots of productive workouts happening. Although not so great that people keep ending up in MRI machines. I've had a productive few days, 4 runs in a row, the most consistent streak of the year (which is a bit sad!) hopefully that consistency continues.

Hey, c'mon...I haven't been in one since November!  Glad to see Nicole and Gretchen are on the mend.  I see big things from this group this year., once we're all fully functional. 

A note about run frequency since there are a bunch of posts about it above.  Most of the literature I've read (Daniels, Hidgeon etc.) indicates spreading out miles across as many workouts as possible.  Somehow that frequency leads to injury prevention (which can seem counter-intuitive, I know).  I've had my best success at running (and triathlon, for that matter) running 4-5+ days a week, even if a couple of those runs are only 1-2 miles in length.

2018-01-29 6:21 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

A note about run frequency since there are a bunch of posts about it above.  Most of the literature I've read (Daniels, Hidgeon etc.) indicates spreading out miles across as many workouts as possible.  Somehow that frequency leads to injury prevention (which can seem counter-intuitive, I know).  I've had my best success at running (and triathlon, for that matter) running 4-5+ days a week, even if a couple of those runs are only 1-2 miles in length.




Even when cross training, and is overall distance a factor? This is good info/feedback as I am ALSO struggling with the early morning get up and run thing...I've started saying "f___ it" and force myself to get out and just run 2 miles when I've been slugging too long and then I don't have the time for 4...it feels like I'm slacking (or at least not challenging my morning slug the way I need to)...but I'm also in early 5K to 10K mode so it's not like on other days I'm running 7 or 8 miles, my max for now is 3.2ish (working my way up to 4).

Sandi


2018-01-29 6:58 PM
in reply to: sandishr

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by sandishr

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

A note about run frequency since there are a bunch of posts about it above.  Most of the literature I've read (Daniels, Hidgeon etc.) indicates spreading out miles across as many workouts as possible.  Somehow that frequency leads to injury prevention (which can seem counter-intuitive, I know).  I've had my best success at running (and triathlon, for that matter) running 4-5+ days a week, even if a couple of those runs are only 1-2 miles in length.




Even when cross training, and is overall distance a factor? This is good info/feedback as I am ALSO struggling with the early morning get up and run thing...I've started saying "f___ it" and force myself to get out and just run 2 miles when I've been slugging too long and then I don't have the time for 4...it feels like I'm slacking (or at least not challenging my morning slug the way I need to)...but I'm also in early 5K to 10K mode so it's not like on other days I'm running 7 or 8 miles, my max for now is 3.2ish (working my way up to 4).

Sandi


Yes, even when swimming and cycling are added in. My N=1 experience is that I've been at my fittest and running best when on high frequency. Total miles is important, the more the better, so adding 2 or 3 easy 2 mile recovery runs will only help. Even at the expense of shortening your long run/workouts to avoid a huge jump up in total weekly mileage

I like the BarryP plan (from the other triathlon forum, less friendly, but good resources) to split up my running.
3 short easy runs
2 medium runs ether easy or quality workouts (i.e. tempo/intervals) depending on the stage of training
1 long slow run.

i.e. 3 x 2 mile, 2 x 4 mile and 1 x 6 mile a week.

the 3 short/easy runs can be done on cycling days either as a brick, or as a separate workout. I used to run before work, and bike after, but up to you.

Easy for me to say... but hard to do at the moment.
2018-01-29 7:26 PM
in reply to: #5236389

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DeLand, Florida
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Mike and Andrew - any recommendations on books and such for the more frequent run training? I'm intrigued. I've come a long way from my old run injury days and gone as far as a Dopey Challenge (48.6 over 4 days) largely injury free but always need a long break afterwards to let the body heal.
2018-01-29 7:33 PM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by firebert

Mike and Andrew - any recommendations on books and such for the more frequent run training? I'm intrigued. I've come a long way from my old run injury days and gone as far as a Dopey Challenge (48.6 over 4 days) largely injury free but always need a long break afterwards to let the body heal.


I read 80/20 running by Matt Fitzgerald towards the end of last year which was quite good.
Mike recommended me Daniels Running Formula which I have got but not yet read.
And there is also the BarryP plan often referenced on slow twitch, here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=r... Read the program part 1 2 and 3

Failing that, and most importantly is experiment with yourself. Split up your mileage differently, try it for a few months and see how it feels. I can only tell you it worked for me.
2018-01-29 11:16 PM
in reply to: bulfrog

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DeLand, Florida
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

Thanks Andrew!  Added both books to my wishlist.  I just went back and looked at my old results and while I'm still very happy with my HM PR this past Fall, as it turns out, 'crushed' may be a bit ambitious.  It was nearly 3 minutes faster which is fantastic but with all the added experience in between my first HM (March 2016) and this one (including said Dopey Challenge) I would have hoped for at least that, and again without nagging issues keeping me out of action following to let the body heal - which is where I'm at right now.

 

As Dad always said, "Gettin' old ain't for sissies"

2018-01-29 11:22 PM
in reply to: firebert

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DeLand, Florida
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

Ok time for bike stuff.  You know since it's January in New England and I'm jonesing BAD to be out on the bike again, where I haven't been able to be since early October.

How do you go about finding the right saddle?  I know a saddle is a very personal thing and that's why there are so damn many of them available.  And while I am a fan of going to the LBS and trying things out in person (even if it means paying full retail it's worth it to get it right) - the issue I have is the limited selection.  

So I've started with an idea of what 'should' be the 'right' saddle for me, and ebay shopping for used examples to keep costs down.  Even with a ton of research I've been through 6 of them and always there's an issue.  Is it really this tough to find the right one?  Or is 'only' 6 different saddles nothing compared to what everyone else goes through?



2018-01-30 8:20 AM
in reply to: sandishr

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Baltimore, Maryland
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by sandishr

Originally posted by aviatrix802

Oh, Sandi, I’ve gotten some reviews from people who really like the swim tethers that attach to the ankles. They felt it was a more natural feeling. I’ll see if I can pull some links from the ones some folks recommended.


Thanks, keep me updated. My feet get so damn crampy in the pool I worry about the ankles (it's odd, I only cramp in the pool and it's only my toes!!). Thus far the one I think might work the best is one that attaches to the handle of the stairs, assuming the setup of the pool worked out angle-wise. I'm also intrigued by the lane ones, but I just don't see how hands wouldn't frequently tangle in the lines...my hands are much longer than my torso!!! And half the reason I am interested is because the lap lanes in some pools I can go to are often super crowded making a focused workout difficult, whereas if I can just hook up in the stairs portion of the pool during a quieter part of the day and go for a period of time I thought I might improve. For that matter, it also would work in the lake at a dock if OWS is impractical or unsafe.

Sandi


Hey Sandi, question for you. Your feet cramping...does it happen all the time or like, at the end of a hard workout? If it's all the time, you might be able to fix it. Next time you are swimming think about your kick. If you are really *trying* to point your toes/are pointing too hard, I think that might be the culprit. Your feet should be pointed but relaxed, if that makes sense. If they are stiff they are going to be more likely to cramp, especially if you are not fully warmed up yet when the cramps start.

You could also try walking a little before getting in the pool. That might warm your feet up before hopping in the cold pool.

Sorry for this unsolicited advice. It just stood out to me.
2018-01-30 8:28 AM
in reply to: nicole14e

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
My two cents about frequency of running is the quality of your runs matter. I agree with those that said they do 1-2 mile easy runs to increase their mileage and avoid injury. I also don't think there is anything wrong with running 3 times a week as long as you have quality runs. You're going to have a bad run now and then, but if you are mostly really into it mentally and physically you can still do really well.

Something else that I think some triathletes don't do enough of is strength training. We focus on SBR because that is what we do, but if you add in strength training you will be amazed at the difference. Last season I ran 2-3 times a week, did boot camp (HIIT workout with lots of strength exercises) 1-2 times a week and swam 1-2 times a week, and did really well in my two races. I was a swimmer and a runner at different points growing up, but amazed myself at my runs in both of my races (one Oly, one Sprint). I attribute it a lot to the boot camp I go to at least once a week.
2018-01-30 8:37 AM
in reply to: firebert


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Nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Andrew - this is my first so as we talked before it has been interesting to say the least. Before she started daycare (January) I was knocking out most of my workouts in the morning before work because I'm a morning person. But, now that I have to drop her off at daycare, Mom wasn't too keen on me dropping her off that early. My plan for this year is to enter 3-4 Sprints so that I can get away with a little less training than say an oly or half. So most of my work now is done during my lunch time at work and I have been getting a decent run in on Sunday afternoons. As you said before, the after work option is out for me as well because it's not long after I get home that they go to bed. Again, I'll keep you posted on how it's going and also if I can get creative in any ways to get more workouts in. Hope your is doing well and enjoy the runs.

Eric
2018-01-30 8:41 AM
in reply to: nicole14e

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Baltimore, Maryland
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Official doctor appt was yesterday. He said the bruising is the main culprit of the pain, so once that goes away I should feel a lot better. He thinks I will be good in 2-3 weeks!

He cleared me to swim, so I went to practice last night. It was ROUGH. We did a VO2 max workout (very fast, lots of rest).
6x50y on 1:20 (I was swimming about 27sec 50s)
3x100y on 2:30 (~1:24)
2x150 on 4 (~2:18)
1x300 fast (4:45)

The slower group did the same workout but they did 5 50s on 1:40 I think, and then did 75s instead of 100s and 125s instead of 150s. My coach said this is something you do 6 times in a 12 week program (in case any of you wanted to add this in to your workouts!).

Knee felt good, although doc said I can't flip turn yet so that was something to get used to.
2018-01-30 9:43 AM
in reply to: nicole14e

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DeLand, Florida
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

Originally posted by nicole14e Official doctor appt was yesterday. He said the bruising is the main culprit of the pain, so once that goes away I should feel a lot better. He thinks I will be good in 2-3 weeks!

YAY!!!  That's fantastic news!  Hope the pain clears up very soon.



2018-01-30 10:32 AM
in reply to: firebert

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

After work yesterday I hit the pool and upped my distance to 1000m and finally back into 1k range. Still feeling pretty good so I think the ramp up to 1500m will go more quickly than I had expected. Granted this is easy pace sustained effort and not high effort training drills. This morning was an easy pace 3 mile run.

Reading through yesterday's posts really calls out how many different levels each of us are in different skills. This diversity is great for information and encouragement! Keep it up everyone

2018-01-30 12:37 PM
in reply to: firebert

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Carbondale, Illinois
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Originally posted by firebert

Ok time for bike stuff.  You know since it's January in New England and I'm jonesing BAD to be out on the bike again, where I haven't been able to be since early October.

How do you go about finding the right saddle?  I know a saddle is a very personal thing and that's why there are so damn many of them available.  And while I am a fan of going to the LBS and trying things out in person (even if it means paying full retail it's worth it to get it right) - the issue I have is the limited selection.  

So I've started with an idea of what 'should' be the 'right' saddle for me, and ebay shopping for used examples to keep costs down.  Even with a ton of research I've been through 6 of them and always there's an issue.  Is it really this tough to find the right one?  Or is 'only' 6 different saddles nothing compared to what everyone else goes through?




I have heard tale of a machine that will measure your "sit bones" (ugh...as a bone person, this drives me nuts!!) and then tell you which saddles are appropriate for your particular shape/size. HOWEVER, I have no idea what it is called and/or where you might have the opportunity to utilize such a tool (if it actually exists and isn't a mythical triathlon legend).

If you figure out something other than trial and error, please let us know! I'm going to be in the market for a new saddle this season. I wore a hole in my current one. I forgot the model, but I know it is a men's saddle, and that hasn't really worked out so well given my particular geometry. But, I'm too cheap/stubborn to replace it before it was worn out!
2018-01-30 12:40 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open
Swimmers mile in the can for me today at lunch. The coach's wife, who is a swim coach for a different team in her own right, was there and she said I was swimming fast! That's a first for me--fast swimming isn't generally in my wheelhouse.
2018-01-30 3:10 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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1007
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DeLand, Florida
Subject: RE: 2018 Beer Drinker Appreciation Society - Always Open

Hey Gretchen - I've heard of the same, and as far as different saddle manufacturers having different tools to measure.  With a little help you can measure your own arse, er, sitz bone/ischial tuberosity.  Basically just need to sit on a piece of paper and mark where the bone hits the paper, and measure in metric.  That'll get you a proper minimum width, at least in theory.

There's also the shape front to back (curved or flat) and also across the back (flat to curved downwards).  And the padding.  and the perineal relief i.e. whether there's any channel down the middle to allow for soft tissue comfort.  This of course needing to be different based on gender...

Then because we're in effect Time Trialists, and need to spend time in the aero tuck, there's the nose of the saddle to contend with.

AND after all that, the covering.  This is where I'm at now.  I've found a saddle that seems comfortable enough in both the regular and aero positions, at least up to 40k anyway.  I've fitted it for aero riding (way forwards on the seat post).  But I still slide back every 10 pedal strokes, leading me to think that it's not properly adjusted.  But I can't move it any farther forward without buying a new bike for it   So what I think is that I need the same saddle with a grippier covering so I don't slide around.  Cobb doesn't make one though....

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