Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 108)
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION - PLEASE FORGIVE IT IF IT IS. However, being new to IM training it seems a little crazy the level of training in the peak. I am actually doing great with recovering from things and have been very lucky with injuries etc. I did not expect this but my only complaint has been missing so much of other aspects of life. With that said my question is - how important are the workouts outside of the long swim bike run. Is there any scientific study or analysis of training. It seems we are all around 16 to 22 hours and doing 20 mileish runs, 100-120 mile rides with some level of brick and I would quess we are all at 3500-4000 swims. We all seem to be on the same page but is that page Joe Friels opinion - obviously a well educated opinion but yet are there studies. I listened to a interesting podcast about a guy who did some crazy azz # of half IM last year and once he had done a few he just did the races no training - and had pr's. Logic to me would say that unless you really wanted speed you would be good with the 3 long workouts and not the other at the end. Again this may be logical thinking or it may be the rantings of a peaking triathlete who wants to be able to quit looking at his watch at every event wondering when he can quit managing his time with such detail. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Someone posted on one of the early post (in the first 30some pages) Thanks |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tribean - 2011-05-25 8:55 PM Someone posted on one of the early post (in the first 30some pages)
http://racedaytracker.com/Default.aspx |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I pretty much do a two week taper (bike anyway) 1 week out - 4hr ride 1 1/2 week out - 2 hr run 2 weeks out - 6 hour ride 3 weeks out - 2 1/2 hr run 3 weeks out - 6 hour ride One two hour run over the last 3 weeks but stick with the long bike two weeks out then cut back. The last week is pretty minimal, a lot of short stuff with 30' (run) or 3' (bike) accelerations to race pace then back down. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ironeric2010 - 2011-05-25 5:26 PM What is the purpose for the superglue?I've been using the ziipp extenders for about a year now. Before every race I do a couple of things: 1) fully open valves and put a dab of superglue on top of valve. 2) Apply fresh plumber's tape to valve. 3) hand-tighten zipp extenders onto valve. No special tools required, and haven't had any significant leakage before, during, or after a race. Since I only hand-tightened extenders, I can just loosen by hand if I flat. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() cam111 - 2011-05-26 8:01 AM ironeric2010 - 2011-05-25 5:26 PM What is the purpose for the superglue?I've been using the ziipp extenders for about a year now. Before every race I do a couple of things: 1) fully open valves and put a dab of superglue on top of valve. 2) Apply fresh plumber's tape to valve. 3) hand-tighten zipp extenders onto valve. No special tools required, and haven't had any significant leakage before, during, or after a race. Since I only hand-tightened extenders, I can just loosen by hand if I flat. I won't speak for ironeric, but when using the zipp style extender, it is extremely important you lock the valve open (you know the part you unscrew when you put air in the tire normally). Some people use glue... I just take a couple of really tight wraps of teflon tape on the lock nut (in addition to the tape you put on the screw threads where the valve extender joins to the valve. If that lock nut rattles loose or gets twisted closed when you are putting on the valve extender (this has happened to me... PITA), you won't be able to get air into or out of the tire... because you'll have no way to depress the valve. When using this type of extender, it is the air pressure inside the tire that holds that valve closed. When pumping up the tire, you need to have greater pressure inside the pump than what is already inside the tire to push it open. That's actually true all the time... the little lock nut is just an extra precaution (lots of riders never screw them closed). I've never had a problem with this type of valve, but this is why many people prefer the removable valve-core type extenders. I have a small piece of wire (cut clothes hanger) under the velcro of my aerodrink on my aerobars at all times. The purpose of this wire is to allow me to be able to empty a tire of air by depressing that valve core even when the extenders are on (by poking the wire down the extender). Especially when I'm using my crack pipe on my disk cover, which doesn't seal to the valve as tightly as the pump when you flip the lever... sometimes my pump doesn't want to top off the tire (the valve is a little stuck)... but if I manually depress the valve and empty it, and then pump it up, it will pump up to my desired PSI just fine. It my IM last year, I loaned that piece of wire to 4 people on race morning that were freaking out. Edited by JoshKaptur 2011-05-26 8:03 AM |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kstater39 - 2011-05-25 9:14 PM THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION - PLEASE FORGIVE IT IF IT IS. However, being new to IM training it seems a little crazy the level of training in the peak. I am actually doing great with recovering from things and have been very lucky with injuries etc. I did not expect this but my only complaint has been missing so much of other aspects of life. With that said my question is - how important are the workouts outside of the long swim bike run. Is there any scientific study or analysis of training. It seems we are all around 16 to 22 hours and doing 20 mileish runs, 100-120 mile rides with some level of brick and I would quess we are all at 3500-4000 swims. We all seem to be on the same page but is that page Joe Friels opinion - obviously a well educated opinion but yet are there studies. I listened to a interesting podcast about a guy who did some crazy azz # of half IM last year and once he had done a few he just did the races no training - and had pr's. Logic to me would say that unless you really wanted speed you would be good with the 3 long workouts and not the other at the end. Again this may be logical thinking or it may be the rantings of a peaking triathlete who wants to be able to quit looking at his watch at every event wondering when he can quit managing his time with such detail. Not a dumb question at all. As we've established a million times in this thread, there's no one size fits all plan. For example, I'm a sub 10:30 IMer and I never ran 20 miles, never did a brick after a long ride, and only swam more than a mile at a time 3-4 times in prep for the race. You are right to think about key workouts and not-so-key workouts. Everyone misses workouts sometimes, either by circumstance or because they are smart and stop at the slightest twinge of bad-pain (vs. good pain). They realize that life is about priorities... and that might mean skipping a 6 mile run to go to your daughter's softball game or skipping a 15 mile run because you have a nagging calf injury. In terms of the race, your first priority at this point is to not get injured (only you can decide what your other priorities in life are and how they fit with training priorities). IMHO, many people over-do it in the final IM prep. I'm not saying all injuries come from that, but it's not uncommon (and you'll see a few more in this thread) for people to report a few weeks before the race that they're frustrated because they've been healthy all season and are now hurt right before the race. For the most part, what's done is done at this point. You are racing in a month, and it takes 2-3 weeks to absorb any fitness. That means at best you have 1-2 more weeks to make fitness gains, and then 2-3 weeks to recover/taper... which involves finding the balance between absorbing the work you've done through rest but not losing too much fitness while you do it. But it would be a mistake to do a huge jump in volume or intensity (or both) at this point trying to squeeze in a last little extra bit of fitness... and many of us get suckered into doing just that. Even worse are those who have failed to hit their benchmarks during the prep so far, and try to make up for it in the last few weeks with crazy huge volumes (compared to what they were doing). Both of those are a recipe for disaster. I'm not against huge volume... in fact I argued for it pretty strongly (particularly with running) early in this thread. What I am advising against now is making a big jump in volume from what you have been doing these last few days/weeks before taper. It's too late to BECOME a high volume athlete. Right now is probably when most of you are peaking in terms of training volume, and that makes perfect sense. Just make sure that peak is only a small jump from your volume in the week(s) prior. I've also found through experiment that I do not do very well with a full 3 week taper... I end up feeling great the week before the race (charged and ready to go) but flat on race day instead of fresh. This led me to a shorter taper (hard to put a number on it since I do a different taper in all 3 disciplines) and if I had to do it again I would do it exactly the same, because I felt wonderful on race day. You'll notice, Kstater... that my overall volume dropped but that I still got in some long workouts 3 weeks out. After that my plan had tried to maintain volume for a week but cut the long workouts... and then both volume and long workouts were cut, but intensity (not show) stayed the same. Here's what my IM taper looked like (and a few extra weeks to show where my training had been). I'm reluctant to post because I'm not prescribing this... just showing what worked for me. 6 weeks out - 51 miles run (7 runs), 134 bike (2 rides), 4500 swim (2 swims)... long run 16, long bike 101 5 weeks out - 51 run (6), 187 bike (4), 6000 swim (3)... long run 12 (twice); long bike 85 4 weeks out - 55 run (7), 276 bike (5), 2600 swim (2)... long run 18; long bike 112 3 weeks out - 39 run (4), 102 bike (3), 4600 swim (3)... long run 18; long bike 42 2 weeks out - 29 run (5), 84 bike (3), 3700 swim (2)... long run 10; long bike 36 race week (not including race) - 12 run (3), 63 bike (3), 5400 swim (4)... long run 8; long bike 27 My peak weeks prior to that had included 240 mile bike weeks, and several 50+ mile run weeks... as much as 5 months prior. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() superglue ensures that the valve will remain locked open. No accidental closures. You want to make sure the valve is fully open though. When you're opening it, keep turning it until you feel almost a "bump".
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ONE MONTH! ONE MONTH! ONE MONTH! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2011-05-26 6:47 AM kstater39 - 2011-05-25 9:14 PM THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION - PLEASE FORGIVE IT IF IT IS. However, being new to IM training it seems a little crazy the level of training in the peak. I am actually doing great with recovering from things and have been very lucky with injuries etc. I did not expect this but my only complaint has been missing so much of other aspects of life. With that said my question is - how important are the workouts outside of the long swim bike run. Is there any scientific study or analysis of training. It seems we are all around 16 to 22 hours and doing 20 mileish runs, 100-120 mile rides with some level of brick and I would quess we are all at 3500-4000 swims. We all seem to be on the same page but is that page Joe Friels opinion - obviously a well educated opinion but yet are there studies. I listened to a interesting podcast about a guy who did some crazy azz # of half IM last year and once he had done a few he just did the races no training - and had pr's. Logic to me would say that unless you really wanted speed you would be good with the 3 long workouts and not the other at the end. Again this may be logical thinking or it may be the rantings of a peaking triathlete who wants to be able to quit looking at his watch at every event wondering when he can quit managing his time with such detail. Not a dumb question at all. As we've established a million times in this thread, there's no one size fits all plan. For example, I'm a sub 10:30 IMer and I never ran 20 miles, never did a brick after a long ride, and only swam more than a mile at a time 3-4 times in prep for the race. You are right to think about key workouts and not-so-key workouts. Everyone misses workouts sometimes, either by circumstance or because they are smart and stop at the slightest twinge of bad-pain (vs. good pain). They realize that life is about priorities... and that might mean skipping a 6 mile run to go to your daughter's softball game or skipping a 15 mile run because you have a nagging calf injury. In terms of the race, your first priority at this point is to not get injured (only you can decide what your other priorities in life are and how they fit with training priorities). IMHO, many people over-do it in the final IM prep. I'm not saying all injuries come from that, but it's not uncommon (and you'll see a few more in this thread) for people to report a few weeks before the race that they're frustrated because they've been healthy all season and are now hurt right before the race. For the most part, what's done is done at this point. You are racing in a month, and it takes 2-3 weeks to absorb any fitness. That means at best you have 1-2 more weeks to make fitness gains, and then 2-3 weeks to recover/taper... which involves finding the balance between absorbing the work you've done through rest but not losing too much fitness while you do it. But it would be a mistake to do a huge jump in volume or intensity (or both) at this point trying to squeeze in a last little extra bit of fitness... and many of us get suckered into doing just that. Even worse are those who have failed to hit their benchmarks during the prep so far, and try to make up for it in the last few weeks with crazy huge volumes (compared to what they were doing). Both of those are a recipe for disaster. I'm not against huge volume... in fact I argued for it pretty strongly (particularly with running) early in this thread. What I am advising against now is making a big jump in volume from what you have been doing these last few days/weeks before taper. It's too late to BECOME a high volume athlete. Right now is probably when most of you are peaking in terms of training volume, and that makes perfect sense. Just make sure that peak is only a small jump from your volume in the week(s) prior. I've also found through experiment that I do not do very well with a full 3 week taper... I end up feeling great the week before the race (charged and ready to go) but flat on race day instead of fresh. This led me to a shorter taper (hard to put a number on it since I do a different taper in all 3 disciplines) and if I had to do it again I would do it exactly the same, because I felt wonderful on race day. You'll notice, Kstater... that my overall volume dropped but that I still got in some long workouts 3 weeks out. After that my plan had tried to maintain volume for a week but cut the long workouts... and then both volume and long workouts were cut, but intensity (not show) stayed the same. Here's what my IM taper looked like (and a few extra weeks to show where my training had been). I'm reluctant to post because I'm not prescribing this... just showing what worked for me. 6 weeks out - 51 miles run (7 runs), 134 bike (2 rides), 4500 swim (2 swims)... long run 16, long bike 101 5 weeks out - 51 run (6), 187 bike (4), 6000 swim (3)... long run 12 (twice); long bike 85 4 weeks out - 55 run (7), 276 bike (5), 2600 swim (2)... long run 18; long bike 112 3 weeks out - 39 run (4), 102 bike (3), 4600 swim (3)... long run 18; long bike 42 2 weeks out - 29 run (5), 84 bike (3), 3700 swim (2)... long run 10; long bike 36 race week (not including race) - 12 run (3), 63 bike (3), 5400 swim (4)... long run 8; long bike 27 My peak weeks prior to that had included 240 mile bike weeks, and several 50+ mile run weeks... as much as 5 months prior. Thank you for this post. While I've not always needed to know some of the info you've posted, Josh you've been very knowledgeable and helpful to me as a first-time Ironman. I'm no where near the volume you and some of the other veterans are, but I'm training and building as per a coach and training plan. I do like your idea of not dropping volume so much. I feel better staying pretty active and keeping the blood flowing. I will be tapering and not going crazy with increased volume or intensity though. So....just a long way to say thanks for all your input. ![]() AND....on another note, with all the talk of cold water temps I had an idea. You know how we use the power of our minds to get through training and racing? And how the monks can increase their body temps in meditation? Well, how about we try a grand experiment and all start visualizing the lake getting warmer -- the sun warming it to a reasonable 60-something temperature for race day. Dare I say 66 like it was two years ago? Don't want to get all woo-woo but hey, visualization works, prayer works and why not put our thoughts and words together toward thinking warm water instead of adding worry and dread? I'm gonna try it anyway. ![]() |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kstater39 - 2011-05-25 6:14 PM THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION - PLEASE FORGIVE IT IF IT IS... I think the general idea is that there is no one size fits all plan. There are numerous options out there from general plans you can take and modify yourself, to coaches who will do this for you, to custom plans written specifically for you. All plans need to consider your goals, limiters, constraints, schedule and abilities. Any of these factors can be ignored at one's own peril. To answer a different part of your question: My plan is custom written by a coach and is based on a marathon plan (Pfitz 18/70+) from Pete Pfitzinger, an olympic marathoner with a Masters Degree in Sports Physiology. The basis for his plans is research from Dr. Jack Daniels. (His research is the basis for VDOT and all running calculators) The cycling portion of my plan includes workouts and structure from Chris Carmichael. (Cyclist and member of Team 7-11 as well as personal coach to Lance Armstrong and George Hincapie) My coach took the time to evaluate each of these factors and provided me with a plan that for me, is very sustainable and most importantly, positions me well to hit some goals. One goal, Re-Qualify for Boston under the new standard had already been accomplished. (At A Tuneup Race earlier this month) One factor that was key for me was NOT to put my life on hold to train for CdA. Much of my training involves early morning workouts, commute workouts and lunch workouts. (Either Run or ride to work) I have not had to give up much of any of other parts of my life to get this far. I did schedule a few days off of work to do long workouts but that was not a problem. What the plan might lack in volume is made up for some solid quality workouts. I have run 3 ironman races and have PR'd on every outing. But, I also know what it is like to run an IM woefully undertrained and I won't do that to myself again ![]() |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TexasMPGal - 2011-05-26 8:08 AM ONE MONTH! ONE MONTH! ONE MONTH! Woohoo, Time to GET IT ON!!! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() When using this type of extender, it is the air pressure inside the tire that holds that valve closed. When pumping up the tire, you need to have greater pressure inside the pump than what is already inside the tire to push it open. That's actually true all the time... the little lock nut is just an extra precaution (lots of riders never screw them closed). I've never had a problem with this type of valve, but this is why many people prefer the removable valve-core type extenders. Yeah I may not have been clear, but when I mentioned tightening the extender on top of the valve, that's just to make a good seal for inflation. Otherwise air will hiss where the extender meets the valve when you try to pump up the tire. Once it IS inflated, that air is not going to leak out, because of what you just explained. I have a small piece of wire (cut clothes hanger) under the velcro of my aerodrink on my aerobars at all times. The purpose of this wire is to allow me to be able to empty a tire of air by depressing that valve core even when the extenders are on (by poking the wire down the extender). These are really handy. If you ever lose yours though, you can unscrew the extender and flip it upside-down to press on the valve and release the air. Do that as a last resort though, because you might not get the extender back on there without completely removing the tire and starting over. I had a slow leak once and deflated it that way so I could change the tube. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm new to ZIPPS and haven't decided if I'm using them or not yet, but why the extenders and not just 70 or 80's on the tube valves? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dfrash_1 - 2011-05-26 9:48 AM I'm new to ZIPPS and haven't decided if I'm using them or not yet, but why the extenders and not just 70 or 80's on the tube valves? That will work on the 404s, but the 808s / 1080s are too much for that. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Whew....had some great workouts yesterday. Started with a noontime 8 mile run with the baby, followed by a hard one hour trainer ride, then last night a straight 3000 yard swim at my (hopeful) race pace of 1:45/100. Trying to cram in some extra workouts/distance this week since I'll be camping with my son and his cubscout den (I'm the leader) all weekend.On a sidenote, my tan is looking glorious. No need to worry about missed sunscreen spots for this boy come raceday. ![]() |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2011-05-26 8:16 AM Hey Britt What did you re-learn at IMTX that you forgot from IMAZ 09? Ah, great question!! For everyone's knowledge--I was out at IMTX this past weekend working with my Team to run an aid station, and support our athletes (like Tim O'Donnell--while I didn't hand off the flag, I was the planner for the whole operation, and then got "backstage" access to a sweaty hug and some pics after he finished). It was the first time I was at a race till it's total closure because we had a run aid station. Some observational notes: - It was hot and humid--we won't have the humidity, but given the day (like CdA last year) we could likely have the heat. Sponges and water dumping is common--but mind you, it was tearing up some people's feet cause their feet were getting so wet. So dump and sponge, but do it wisely so as not to screw up your feet. - If it does get hot on the run, drink enough, but not too much! Saw some water puking going on due to that. - Don't worry if you're Garmin/GPS, whatever, isn't perfect right as soon as you start the run out--I was right there when all the Pros were coming out and all the top guys were fiddling with watches and devices too!! - Don't be afraid to ask a volunteer for help!! The volunteers were amazing (and I'm not just saying that cause I was one)--and if an athlete asked us to help them do something, we all jumped on it. So if you need help, even if it's pulling a sponge out of the back of your top, ask them! Thank them as you can--man, everyone was so amazingly thankful it was super. - Mike Reilly WILL start the race on time. There were A LOT of age groupers that had not made their way into the water yet, and the gun went off--so be where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there. A little different since we're a beach start, but still. -At aid stations, if you are going to stop and or walk, please stay to the right (or left, whatever side the aid station is on--usually right), some people are going to keep running, and you don't want a collision. HAVE FUN--maybe you have a great day, maybe you don't--but those folks that weren't having "their" day out there, but were keeping it light and jovial were doing much better than those who entered the depths of mental darkness. Remember--not a single one of us are getting a pay check out of this day! If things go south, just have fun with it and be so thrilled and grateful that you have the physical capacity to finish, even if it's not the "standard" you set for yourself it's better the majority of the world population. If you are having the day of your life, enjoy it and give it all, and collapse AFTER the finish line! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() awesome reminders Britt! Ive been reminding my fellow Ga triathletes the very same thing about the mental game. Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I am reviewing the IMCDA site as I have a cancellation now. It says there still are IM foundation slot. Jeez! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TexasMPGal - 2011-05-25 11:44 PM HAVE FUN--maybe you have a great day, maybe you don't--but those folks that weren't having "their" day out there, but were keeping it light and jovial were doing much better than those who entered the depths of mental darkness. Remember--not a single one of us are getting a pay check out of this day! If things go south, just have fun with it and be so thrilled and grateful that you have the physical capacity to finish, even if it's not the "standard" you set for yourself it's better the majority of the world population. If you are having the day of your life, enjoy it and give it all, and collapse AFTER the finish line! Well said and great reminder! Thanks! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Anybody else eating everything in sight? THE BEAST MUST BE FED! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Heck yes! I got in my car yesterday and found all kind of GU wrappers and Banana peels and and I was like "Yikes!", maybe I'll clean my car once tapering starts ![]() |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ha! eat everything in sight? Isn't that the main reason for doing this? |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2011-05-26 8:32 PM ha! eat everything in sight? Isn't that the main reason for doing this?
heck yeah, polishing off a big bowl of ice cream now, have a run and bike planned for later tonight after the kiddos finally got to bed |
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