Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 11)

I've got a comp day today, I'm going for an hour swim in a few, and will get on the trainer for an hour this evening.  In between I'm taking my boys to see Tron Legacy while a snowstorm rolls into Denver, should be a fun day!
Enjoy the rest day Fred  

I have a 1:15 run tonight and since it's so cold here right now (high's in the 40's), I'll be doing on the dreadmill. I know for some of you 40's isn't cold but for Phoenix it is. I also have to cover up all my plants tonight as they're predicting a kill freeze tonight. I lost a tree and two bushes about 3 years ago and don't want to do that again. Friday will be my rest day and then two big days on the weekend. I'm two weeks out from my first 1/2 marathon.

Here's the list of our group:

Fred Doucette = Fred (Happy Valley, Pennsylvania)
Phxphotog = Todd (Phoenix, Arizona)
TriPatrick = Patrick (Montgomery, Texas)
jsiegs = Joe (Baltimore, Maryland)
TexasMPGal = Brittany (San Diego, California)
Shmeeg = Jay (Oceanside, Californa)
Kath2163 = Kathleen (Highlands Ranch, Colorado)
ewoolf44 = Eric (Scottsdale, Arizona)
TankBoy = Rusty (Atlanta, Georia)
GrayCat = Tim (London, England)
slornow = Randy (Alabama)
StMaas = Steve (Highlands Ranch, Colorado)
GoFaster = Neil (?)
Catwoman = Rene (Texas)
kr140.6 = Kate (New York City, New York)
wiky = Rob (Kentucky)

Hope I got everything correct. If there are any corrections, just copy and paste this so we can get it updated.


Edited by phxphotog 2010-12-30 12:39 PM

Only correction I see is my user ID, should be StMaas, but thats a common mis-spell most everyone makes

Edited by StMaas 2010-12-30 12:20 PM

Changed. Thanks.

Thanks for doing this Todd!!

I know you're all long course athletes, but anybody ever use a good Oly program that you might recommend?  I am planning on using the Silver 10 week Intermidiate Oly just because it fits my schedule well, but I may just renew a Bronze membership if there's better plans available elsewhere.  I'm going to use an EN plan for my HIM in the fall because I'd like something power based for that distance.

Hy Fred - I got out this morning: 4500 yards in the pool followed up by an hour of deep tissue massage. Then back to REI to return the Garmin 410 - I never even used it - just setting it up drove me crazy. Exchanged it for the 310xt - thanks for the advice, everybody. Then off to the market for dinner supplies, and watch the tail end of the Armed Forces Bowl - Go Army here as well! Then fidget around with the new Garmin, and download Ascent. Gonna try to figure out a straightforward way to bulk export my log from Training Peaks for import into BT - since BT will read in an excel file, it *might* be easy. or hard. or impossible.

Good luck!  I tried something similar and had no luck.  On a somewhat related note, I deleted all my 2010 WKO+ data when I reloaded the OS on my computer yesterday

A solid 90' on the trainer for me today, which is longer than usual this time of year.  

I also would probably benefit from more rest days.  But I tend to opt for active recovery because of the mental relaxation it provides.

Here you go:  GoFaster = Neil (Milton, Ontario - just outside Toronto)

I did a field test today for running.  I hated it, buy now I have a better idea where I am.  I ran 4.48 miles in 30 min.  A side result is I know now I can go under 20 minutes in a 5k.  I have never ran an open 5k and I have wondered lately if I could do it. 

As a result my LT number is 167.  Should I go with this number or multiple it by 97% as JorgeM suggest in his cycling program? 

I have been monitoring my hr while running, but my newly calculated zones are pretty close to the karvonen formula.  

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So, the trainer ride today was SUPER, mainly because I was excited the whole time as Army pulled off their first bowl game win since 1985 as they beat SMU, and the first winning season since 1995.  Here is hoping for a great 2011 season for them, especially since I'm going to go to Army-Navy game next year. 

Okay, just read through all of the posts thus far! Lots of great information from everyone and I'm going to learn a lot here.  Some notes:

Shmeeg--I'm just down the road from you a bit, maybe we can grab a ride or run together someday.

Saddles--I got a new tri-bike (never owned a road bike, went straight to the tri, sold my old one, bought a new one) in August and got an Adamo saddle. In 2.5 years I went through something like 3-4 saddles cause I was wearing them out, and they were wearing parts of me out.  I wasn't sure about the Adamo, but thus far, I'm quite pleased with it.  Took a little bit, like 2 weeks, to adjust, but it treats me much nicer than the other ones and isn't showing any wear yet--could never say that of other ones. 

Shoes and Pedals- I have Speedplays as well and really like them, and one thing that is great is never having to worry about if they are the right side up or not.  Yes, you do have to keep the mud out of the cleats sometimes, but I've never really had much trouble with them or running in them.  For shoes, I have Shimano TR51's and they are great.  I have worn out the insoles though and are getting new ones from the store here.  They have endured a lot and are still great. Really easy to come out of the shoes when coming towards T2.  The float with the speedplays is something I really like.

Do tri's define me?  No, it is not the definition of who I am, but it has become a bigger part of the whole of who I am than I had ever expected when I got into this sport.  The number of friends I've made through Triathlon (large part due to BT) is amazing--and I'm talking good, good friends.  My health is great, and this hobby plays well to the physical fitness part of my job, so that is a plus.  And now, with the emergence of Team RWB and my role with it, I spend a lot of my time on triathlon, personally training or doing my duties there.  I spend lots of my fun money on racing and training vs. going out to eat or other things like that.  So, no, triathlon doesn't define me...but it has changed my life, and changed it for the better.

Here is a question to throw out there reference nutrition and training-- do you find it necessary to train how you race ALL the time, or just on those workouts that are longer/more closely resemble HIMs/IM racing?  I used to live by the simulate all the time, but I really don't think I need all of that during training.  During a race, your fueling is for your next event as well, not just the current one. For example, today's 2 hour ride, I just took water. I had a fine breakfast a couple of hours before, and didn't feel like I needed anything else. I recently read an article by Mark Allen, in either Lava or Triathlete, talking about how you really don't need anything in those workouts 60-120 minutes, but anything more you should have a nutrition plan.  So, for training specifically, what are everyone's thoughts?

The pure cost alone was enough to keep me from taking nutrition ALL the time.  I will carry a gel for back up.  Closer to my HIM I found myself simulating a little more. 

Yeah, that would be cool! Also, I'd REALLY like somebody to hit the Cove with.  Ever swim there?  I hear there is a Friday group that TCSD sponsors, but probably won't actually make it into the water until the ocean is a bit warmer. 




Could you find the source for that article?  I'd like to read it.  Nearly every bit of my training is < 2 hrs and I always sip on some Infinit during and then have some Recoverite afterward.  I'd hate to think I'm completely wasting my money.

I would say that over the last three months I have learned the most about long distance events then in the first 9 months of training. A main part of that is nutrition and hydration on training over 1 hour.

With as hot as it is here in phoenix, hydration is a big issue. I have gone to the emergency room in the back of an ambulance before and I don't want to do that again. My hydration plan is to sip every 5 minutes or so in the cooler months and about 20 oz an hour in the summer. The thing that I need to figure out once it gets hotter is the salt intake. I've heard that it helps retain water and keep you from sweating so much. Is this correct?

As far as nutrition goes, I have 2 mini cliff bars an hour that are 100 calories a piece and some HEED which is about 50 calories. I do a cliff bar every 30 minutes starting 30 min in on the bike. I pretty much stick to solid food and a little liquid on the bike. On the run, I switch to GU's, power drink and water. I will have 1 GU every 24 minutes (Every other water station). This seems to work well for me.

Off for my 1:15 run.

I read the article on the plane during my trips this past week--just dug out the magazine, and it wasn't Mark Allen, but rather Chris Carmichael and it was called "Focus your Fueling."  Here is the excerpt that spurred the question I posed:

So, that's where this came from, and again, just focusing on the training bit, not racing.  Just curious on what a good training balance might be when it comes to nutrition.  Hydration wise, I typically take something for any run over 1.25 hours cause I sweat pretty well. I am a fan of Nuun as it has electrolytes but not the calories.  It's usually around the 2 hour mark that I know I need something on the bike, so the above "feels" right, but I do race different than that. I use gels on the run, Infinit on the bike.  So, I suppose to narrow the question--is it at all detrimental to my training to not do the same nutrition ratios/intervals for my 60-120 efforts as I would for longer or races? Where is the balance for training my body to use it right? Will I get that from my long efforts alone?

Fred Doucette = Fred (Happy Valley, Pennsylvania)
Phxphotog = Todd (Phoenix, Arizona)
TriPatrick = Patrick (Montgomery, Texas)
jsiegs = Joe (Baltimore, Maryland)
TexasMPGal = Brittany (San Diego, California)
Shmeeg = Jay (Oceanside, Californa)
Kath2163 = Kathleen (Highlands Ranch, Colorado)
ewoolf44 = Eric (Scottsdale, Arizona)
TankBoy = Rusty (Atlanta, Georia)
GrayCat = Tim (London, England)
slornow = Randy (Alabama)
StMaas = Steve (Highlands Ranch, Colorado)
GoFaster = Neil (?)
Catwoman = Rene (Texas)
kr140.6 = Kate (New York City, New York)
wiky = Rob (Kentucky)
GoFaster = Neil (Milton, Ontario - just outside Toronto)
jcb123 = Jacob (Denmark)

You forgot me .


Edited by jcb123 2010-12-31 1:12 AM

Updated group list:

1. Fred Doucette = Fred (Happy Valley, Pennsylvania)
2. Phxphotog = Todd (Phoenix, Arizona)
3. TriPatrick = Patrick (Montgomery, Texas)
4. jsiegs = Joe (Baltimore, Maryland)
5. TexasMPGal = Brittany (San Diego, California)
6. Shmeeg = Jay (Oceanside, Californa)
7. Kath2163 = Kathleen (Highlands Ranch, Colorado)
8. ewoolf44 = Eric (Scottsdale, Arizona)
9. TankBoy = Rusty (Atlanta, Georia)
10. GrayCat = Tim (London, England)
11. slornow = Randy (Alabama)
12. StMaas = Steve (Highlands Ranch, Colorado)
13. GoFaster = Neil (?)
14. Catwoman = Rene (Texas)
15. kr140.6 = Kate (New York City, New York)
16. wiky = Rob (Kentucky)
17. GoFaster = Neil (Milton, Ontario - just outside Toronto)
18. jcb123 = Jacob (Denmark)

Hope this is everyone now.

My personal experience with nutrition is somewhat similar to Brittany's.

For my first IM, I simulated race day fueling a lot in training.  I tried to make sure I consumed around 300 cal/hr, etc.

While training for my second IM this past summer, I didn't practice my race day fueling strategy at all.  Instead, I ate only when I was hungry and allowed myself to finish long training rides in a somewhat carb-depleted state.  I didn't eat on rides under about 2 hrs and for longer rides consumed only about 120 cal/hr.  Then, on race day I took in as many calories as I felt I could handle (just under 300/hr) and felt great.

I plan to use the same lower calorie training strategy this coming season.  Basically, I think that the more we train long the better we get at sensing/predicting how many calories we need to be able to handle a given workout.  If I'm not going to run a marathon off the bike, then I know I don't need to take in 300 cal/hr on a long ride.

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