Increasing power threshold over the winter (Page 11)

Yeah, I was supposed to do them during the same session (Coggan and Skiba protocol). Coach said the 5-min test was to "pre-fatigue" me for the 20' test, since it wasn't a full hour test. I didn't do the 5' test last time...

Trust me, I tried really hard to have the 5' test moved to another session.

My trainer is brand new...I've only had it for like 5 or 6 weeks. It's a mag.

I am now using the 5 and 20 min best efforts scheduled on different days and use the results to calculate 60 min critical power which equals to FTP. Most athletes find tough to do 1 hr FT effort an even then 2x20 min test. Skiba suggested the short tests (he actually uses 3 min and 20 min on different days) and the athlete finds it less daunting and it allows to test more often which is better for the coach. In the end as long as you test the same way is all that matters

During my swim, I got to thinking more about what you were saying about the trainer. And, I think I kind of see where you're coming from better...or at least how it pertains to my riding yesterday. Like, when I ride outside, I can do some hills (South Jersey hills, so not that long) at 300 watts. However, on the trainer, with the resistance I had, I can barely touch 300 watts, and if I do, I certainly can't hold it there for even a short length of time like I can on hills (or in strong headwinds). So, I can see how that can trickle down to the lower wattages as well.

I guess I am feeling a little better about it. Honestly, after the test and based on what I saw from staring at my CPU for 20 mins, I expected avg watts to be a tad higher than 203. And, my riding has pretty good lately. If you look at my power files, you can see that I am holding higher watts and doing so more consistently. So, I was hoping that that would transfer to a good test. I guess the 216 watts for 5 mins isn't so bad, even if the 203 for 20 had me a little disappointed.

Thanks Jorge !

This is my 3rd wk of my FT diet and yesterday did a 3x10 min @ FT session with minimum rest. Now that I am finally back in the groove begging to feel the legs adapting and generating 95-100% of FT is becoming easier.

On another note I want to share the improvement of one of my athletes. I have him doing a solid 12 week cycle of FT sessions building up from short intervals 5-8 min for 20-30 min total FT work and progressed to the regular weekly 2x15 min or 2x20 min @ FT. Each session he had the guideline to push 92%-105% of FT depending on how he was feeling on the given day. He also performed a weekly tempo session with longer sets (20-40 min) @ 76-90% of FT total 60-80 min worth of tempo work.

We test his FTP was 238 at the beginning of the cycle and base on weight he had a power:weight ratio of 2.97 watts/kg. Last week after the cycle was over he tested again at 269 FTP and since he also lost some weight his power:weight is now 3.44! IOW he managed a 12% FTP increase and better yet a 14% increase in power:weight ratio which is very good considering as a triathle he is also been also running and swimming a good amount. This just just shows how consitent work delivers good results!

Last wk did a 2 hr Tempo ride with 1 hr @ 85% of FT and this is my 4rd wk of my FT focus; today I did another 3x10 min @ FT session with minimum rest. But today I stayed at 100-105% and felt much easier. I didn't do another 10 min set cuz this Sunday I'll have an indoor 10K TT which I'll use as a short FT test.

I've seen JK is been posting good sessions on his log and he is getting strong; who else is beginning to notice power gains?

Sitting in a hotel room at 1:30AM on vacation, re-reading this whole thread, two questions came to mind.

1) once your FTP is established and built upon heading into race specific training season, what % of FTP would you use to do long bike rides and your ironman bike leg at?

2) watts per body weight calculation: how is this figured out?

another question has come to mind. I see it is much easier to ride at a higher wattage outside vs the trainer. Should you then do a FTP test outside to determine it or is there a calculation to estimate your training zones from the trainer test?

1 - There's some work a few people have done that bases an IM leg on TSS, with something like 270-290 as a target range.  TSS depends on both intensity & duration.  So, if you are faster, you may ride at 75% of FTP or better.  If you are slower, you may ride at 70% or less.

2 - FTP watts divided by weight in kg

3 - Some people note a meaningful difference between indoor/outdoor FTP.  In that case, you should try to test outside as well.

Help me with my metrics... a pound is ? in kg

2.2 pounds= 1 kilo

I'm pretty sure when I race IMLP I'll go over 300 TSS...just based on my training bricks...my recent 40 miles brick my TSS was 169.

When I rode LP last July my TSS was 179 for one loop less the out and back so it was for 42 miles less than half the course.

I'll race like I train and what works based on my training. 

I know you already got the answer, but here's the easy way to do this:  Google.

Let's say you way 155 pounds and you want to know that in kilograms.  Enter "Convert 155 pounds to kilograms" in the google search and you get this:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=convert+155+pounds+to+kilograms&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Works for most any standard conversion you want.  How many yards is an Oly distance swim?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=convert+1500+meters+to+yards&btnG=Search

You never have to remember the conversions again, so long as you have your friendly Internets.

Hey thanks, cool link. So then do you divide that number into your FTP to get your watts per kilojule (spelling ?)

Cause I remeber my number being in the 2's and I hear people say they are in the 3's

What you after is watts per kilogram, and you divide your watts by your weight in kgs.  So lets say one weighs about 69 kilograms and one's FTP is somewhere around 250, so that's 3.6 w/kg and change. 

Ok I did my first test last night. on the trainer, I did the warm up stuff then the 20" TT. Here are my numbers

Max watts 276
Avg watts 206
FTP 195
Max HR 181
Avg HR 171

I am looking forward to improving these by end of summer, but I am happy with them since I have not rode hardly any this winter

The longer you are out on the bike, the more difficult it is to stay under 290 TSS (and the more likely you will be walking quite a bit in your marathon).  TSS is partly a function of time.  This is why the faster you can get off the bike, the harder you can ride.  And why it's important to raise your FT on the bike (gets you to the run faster with less 'cost'). 

But if you need to go over that 'ceiling' to get the bike done...you just do what you gotta' do and keep moving forward. 

1) this will vary depending on how strong or not you are on the bike. in your specific case we are going to spend more time 1st at increasing your FTP with 2x20 min session at 96-105% of FT and doing VO2 max sets. THEN will focus on developing the endurance necessary to back up that power so you can race at a higher Intensity factor aka IF (IF = % of the FT) for IM. But a way will test this will be by making you do long rides at different IFs i.e. a 80 mile ride at 0.7 IF, 80 mile at 0.75 IF and then make you run. We will collect data from all your rides based on normilized power, variable index, rpm avg, IF, your perceived exertion, training stress score, run pace and we'll use ALL to determine the best pacing strategy for IMAZ. I can explain you in more detail with actual examples of power files once you ride oustide and send me some.

2) convert weigh to kilos and divide by FTP. Then you can go to this link: http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/images/powerprofile_v4.gif and compare yourself with others. Keep in mind those values are based on cyclists but as a very general reference for age groupers: BOP less than <2.8 w/kg, MOP around 2.9-3.4 w/kg, FOP around 3.5-3.9, those placing 4.0>

I had thought there was an issue of the 300 TSS ceiling with slower rider as I just don't think it is possible to get up the hills with less power without tipping over or getting mountain bike cassette. The hills peak my power up more as a % than they do to you or a stronger rider relative to our different FTP I think is the issue.

I did another FTP last time 3/4 180 with avg HR of 160

Today 192 with avg HR of 156

Last summer at my peak fitness it was 193 with avg HR of 166

I'm interested to hear from my coach why he thinks my HR is going down on my TT. I'm more efficient? I'm well rested today and I know lots of other factors can effect HR. I normally do FTP after rest weeks so that is normal.

I'm excited it is mid April and I'm back to where I was in August. My goal is to get to 213 but not sure what to expect. I'm doing lots of interval work and riding lots now.

It's really just the time on the bike (so equally true on a flat course as well) that makes a big difference in TSS.  You should bring as many gears as you can to keep your effort down on those hills.  (Again, at some point I realize you just have to do what you need to in order to get up them).