SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 110)

I love to climb...although I'm not great at it (my power to weight ratio is probably a bit off lol)...just wish I had more hills around here. There were guys doing hill repeats on part of Mt Lemmon...no wonder the Tucson folks come up here to Phx and kick all our butts at races!

I enjoy climbing too.  I think I would love it even more if I was 20 pounds lighter.

Going up my favorite climb in preparation for the TT that will be held there in 4 weeks.  4.5 miles at 5.7%.  I've been doing it the past couple of weeks and usually do about 3 runs of the climb in training...so comes out to roughly 28 miles and 4200 feet of climbing.  The great thing about doing training on this climb is that it will expose your fitness for what it is.  Not just with power...but if you're at race weight.  I can get away with being a few pounds overweight on the flats and think nothings wrong...I curse myself for every cookie I ate when doing this climb...LOL.

Next time you go to Tucson ride up Madera Canyon.  I love that ride.  Once you get to the turn off to the Canyon it is pretty much a steady climb up but ends in a thigh burning climb that has you cursing at it the whole way.  Coming down it is one of the few times I am ever on the breaks its just so fast and you can't make even the gradual turns.  Doesn't take long before you can let loose though and go flying down

nice day here. Rode my sprint race distance minus the biggest hill....then ran laps around the cemetary where i parked for a little longer than it will take for the run leg of my event. I am VEry prepared. dying to do a race....any race. think of me next time u race.

_Linda

I don't really do formal testing either. Just base it off of a couple workouts that I do fairly regularly. Namely the 1 x 20 and 2 x 20.

Yes, that's what I would say. Use it to help tune metrics you do have. I've also honed in RPE better as well.

I can usually tell within a few minutes if a race estimate is going to be too much, so I adjust accordingly on the fly and try to stay inline with the new estimate. Unless something tells me different later.

We have lots of short steep hills but absolutely nothing in the way of sustained climbing.  The longest climb that I have available to me takes a little over 5 minutes and even it is mostly a steep climb for the first bit and then a fairly tame grade to the top.  I can't get any more than 400 feet above sea level.

The only real sustained climb I've ever done was when we rented bikes in Vegas and went through Red Rock Canyon.

Golden Cheetah is pretty cool for maintaining your CP curve and looking for workouts that would indicate my CP is improving or not.

Think of it this way. Drop your 5min and 20min tests into a new GC profile. You will get a curve. Then as you are training look at when that specific workout hits the curve. This is an indication your CP is improving. Also, from time to time pick a point on that curve and try to better it during a workout.

You can view this curve by period. I maintain 4 periods in a year. Oct-Dec, Jan-Mar, Apr-Jun, July-Sept. My best curve is July-Sept, obviously.

Also, test as shorter intervals as well. See how your 1min, 3min, 5min, 10min...relate to your curve. Do you have that "High roof" or "High ceiling". If you have data poiints touch the curve at multiple points from 1min to 30min, chances are your CP curve is pretty accurate. If it is based on 1 data point, like your 20min test, it's probably pretty inaccurate. Look at your "curve" in terms of KJ vs minutes, Look if the slope is steep or flat to see if you should test/improve your threshold work or your VO2 work.

If this whole bla bla isn't clear let me know, I'll try to elaborate or post examples (with pictures ;-) )

It's interesting.

If I went by feel, on the trainer, I would probably under achieve my goal by 25% every time

If I go by feel, on a spectacular climbing course I do in the summer I would over achieve my goal by 25% every time

I think a power meter, computrainer...whatever are even more critical for those of us confined to pain caves. I could probably do without one in the summer, but on a trainer, I'd say it's critical.

I think this is a pretty accurate description of me as well.  There is no way I would push myself as hard as I do on the trainer without the PM.  Rusty also mentioned it acting like a brake at the beginning of an IM but then as the ride went on, paying less attention to it.  This is also how I treated it for my IM last year.  I spent the first hour or two keeping a very close eye on it to keep things under control.  When you get out of the water in 14th place (backdoor brag) and then have a steady stream of uber bikers going by you, it's reeeeeally hard to just let them go!  The PM really helped me there.

On the trainer I'll keep using trainer road so I guess I'll still be chasing numbers, but its all about avoiding boredom for me.  I also agree if I wasn't chasing a number there I'd slack off.  It's pretty easy to do that on the trainer.  Maybe someday I'll mentally be able to hold a harder effort on my own...today is not that day. But I won't test on it again.  If it starts to get easy (which would probably require regular riding) I'll just do what someone suggested and bump up the numbers.

I have never used a PM or HR training. I use the simple Garmin watch that only shows data after you download. I did recently put a bike computer on my tri bike so I can watch my pace when riding in a group and take my pull. So, I guess I am definitely in the "train and race by feel" category. One of the reasons I have never considered using those metrics is that I used to train with a couple of guys that did use power and HR and I felt the whole ride was spent "holding back", which according to you guys is not the case at all (it pushes you to go harder sometimes). 

I like that our group here uses a mixture of training tools, that some of us still use good old RPE while others are finding ways to use technology effectively. There's lots to learn from each other!

The biggest danger of training with technology is getting obsessed with the numbers and becoming dependent on the technology. I doubt  there is a person on this planet more obsessed with numbers and metrics than me.

But I recognize it and intentionally do rides and runs with the numbers hidden so I can develop a better sense of RPE. One day I will take a big leap and actually do something while not collecting data.

Oh, I almost forgot.

Something big happening tomorrow :-)

Group riding makes it very difficult to use a PM unless everyone is using the same numbers - which is very unlikely.  Anytime I have ridden in a group, I just ride and ignore my power meter.

I can think of two things.  One relevant to this group, one not so much (but still very important).

Wow, now you have got me curious. I am trying to figure out which is which :-)

ugh, that's not nice

I went for my usual Wednesday AM swim this morning and then decided it would be a good idea to go for a run immediately after to avoid the rain that is coming.  Turns out that was a bad idea.  Totally running on empty for the run, pace was way off what I would normally do.  

It appears that one english muffin with almond butter is not enough to adequately fuel 4200m in the pool followed by a 40 min run.  That or I suck at running in the morning.  Or my legs are pooched from the bike yesterday.  Any other excuses I can use?  

Well, for the two things I am thinking of, one is definitely COJ material and the other (this one I'm not sure of) is a little more relevant for TT.

Pending rain = higher humidity. Air mass is more dense and therefore more difficult to generate forward propulsion.

Urban Dictionary provided some idea of COJ topic (I'm procrastinating on getting the last of my tax chit together) but you're going to have to provide a better hint for TT.