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2011-06-21 12:03 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 



2011-06-21 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
swbkrun - 2011-06-21 1:03 PM

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 

 

Love my Road ID.  Great product.

2011-06-21 1:28 PM
in reply to: #3560113

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
swbkrun - 2011-06-21 12:03 PM

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 

Does that mean you're going to start riding and running regularly? or are you just planning to wear it around the house?

2011-06-21 2:22 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
dcon - 2011-06-21 9:37 AM

Hi everyone.  I'm back from my first Oly of the year and a couple days of resting afterwards.   I'll save the RR for tomorrow, but wanted to let you know that I had a pretty good day.   My time was 2:46:32 and I was 12/32 in my age group - a 9 minute improvement over the same race last year.

Congrats to Doug, Rob, Chris on your races!!

Sam: sorry to hear about the accident and hope it is healing well.  

awesome job man!

2011-06-21 2:23 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 2:28 PM
swbkrun - 2011-06-21 12:03 PM

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 

Does that mean you're going to start riding and running regularly? or are you just planning to wear it around the house?

neither.  its for when he gets his a$$ kicked monday night by a bunch of 14 year olds. 

2011-06-21 3:20 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 6:36 AM HAPPY ANNIVERSARY LINDA & JEFF!!!!  25 YEARS IS AWESOME!!!! 

 

Congrats!!! You guys have been married almost as long as I have been alive!!



2011-06-21 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 12:23 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 2:28 PM
swbkrun - 2011-06-21 12:03 PM

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 

Does that mean you're going to start riding and running regularly? or are you just planning to wear it around the house?

neither.  its for when he gets his a$$ kicked monday night by a bunch of 14 year olds. 

When did he start racing with Tony?

 

 

 

2011-06-21 3:30 PM
in reply to: #3560701

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
cadmus - 2011-06-21 3:24 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 12:23 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 2:28 PM
swbkrun - 2011-06-21 12:03 PM

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 

Does that mean you're going to start riding and running regularly? or are you just planning to wear it around the house?

neither.  its for when he gets his a$$ kicked monday night by a bunch of 14 year olds. 

When did he start racing with Tony?

 

 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

2011-06-21 3:43 PM
in reply to: #3434069

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

Good one, Matt!!!

Grapejuice, how's that foot of yours???

Trying to post a link here from Linsey Corbin's blog.  I loved it, what a cool philosophy on so many levels. 

Keep on fishin' folks. 

 

eta: spelling poorly or typing poorly, i'll blame it on brain freeze from last nite's ows. 



Edited by kt65 2011-06-21 3:52 PM
2011-06-21 3:50 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
cadmus - 2011-06-21 4:24 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 12:23 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 2:28 PM
swbkrun - 2011-06-21 12:03 PM

Just ordered a new Road Id... Feel free to use this coupon....

 

Coupon Number: ThanksSteve7257527

 

It's saves a $1.00 off every order... Not a lot but every bit counts.

 

 

Does that mean you're going to start riding and running regularly? or are you just planning to wear it around the house?

neither.  its for when he gets his a$$ kicked monday night by a bunch of 14 year olds. 

When did he start racing with Tony?

 

 

 

 

i love you, matt! 

2011-06-21 4:50 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
kt65 - 2011-06-21 4:43 PM

Good one, Matt!!!

Grapejuice, how's that foot of yours???

Trying to post a link here from Linsey Corbin's blog.  I loved it, what a cool philosophy on so many levels. 

Keep on fishin' folks. 

 

eta: spelling poorly or typing poorly, i'll blame it on brain freeze from last nite's ows. 

Saw this article on tips for ows in cold water http://triathlon.competitor.com/2011/06/swim/five-tips-for-swimming-in-cold-water_31818



2011-06-21 5:19 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

Folks are in town for CDA -- yeah!! Took Dad to the lake this morning to be my guardian while I swam, then sent him home in the car while I worked my way home a different route via bike. Dad thought he'd sit and listen to his audiobook and zone out while I swam, but he found himself being fascinated by my swim... He said I make a wake just like a boat!! Ha! I'll take it! He took a pic of me swimming (hopefully first one here) -- I'm on the left, wake to the right. And then he took another of me when I was done (before I took off my wetsuit to sit in the lake... before I dropped my goggles that this morning I decided I'd race in [no, I didn't find them, darnit!!]). 

 

2011-06-21 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

Kyla--what a beautiful place to swim!!! are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

Linda--HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!  What a great life you two lead.  Awesome carbon/leather exchange to boot!

Dan--thanks for pulling a George....tell us why you think you got that terrific 9 minute PR!

Had the massage of all massages today--2 hours!  Haven't seen my awesome therapist in 6 weeks and I was long overdue. Quads still sore, but better.  And the foot is holding its own.  Walked on it for the first time uncovered today.  WOO-HOO!

2011-06-21 6:21 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

2011-06-21 7:03 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 4:21 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

Ah this is something that i was thinking about last nite, this very thing! 

So do you think if i am not the panicky type and the current is not too strong out at Aquatic Park where I posted photo last nite, I could swim the buoy line even if there is no lifeguard?  i have always wanted to but always worry about the "swimming by yourself" thing that peeps talk about.  There are usually at least 10-15 other swimmers down there going back and forth.  Sometimes seals, but not lately.  Never sharks, Mr. Fin Seeker.

2011-06-21 7:24 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
kt65 - 2011-06-21 8:03 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 4:21 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

Ah this is something that i was thinking about last nite, this very thing! 

So do you think if i am not the panicky type and the current is not too strong out at Aquatic Park where I posted photo last nite, I could swim the buoy line even if there is no lifeguard?  i have always wanted to but always worry about the "swimming by yourself" thing that peeps talk about.  There are usually at least 10-15 other swimmers down there going back and forth.  Sometimes seals, but not lately.  Never sharks, Mr. Fin Seeker.

i absolutely would, kim.  and apparently 10-15 other folks do as well.  to me, its no different then my swimming the entire 1/2 course at rev the day before the all the other mg crazies raced.  there was nobody around me, athlete or boat, for a few hundred yards at least.    

you bring up a great point... YOU (not speaking at you but all reading this) are responsible for knowing your capabilities, the current water and weather and near future water and weather conditions, alone or with a group. 

 

wait... sometimes seals, but NOT lately...   i wonder why???????   ;-)

 

edit... i have nothing to back this up but in some way i think swimming alone has made me a more confident swimmer in the open water which in turn leads to better swims come race day... again, nothing to back this up...



Edited by fattyfatfat 2011-06-21 7:27 PM


2011-06-21 7:54 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
kt65 - 2011-06-21 7:03 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 4:21 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

Ah this is something that i was thinking about last nite, this very thing! 

So do you think if i am not the panicky type and the current is not too strong out at Aquatic Park where I posted photo last nite, I could swim the buoy line even if there is no lifeguard?  i have always wanted to but always worry about the "swimming by yourself" thing that peeps talk about.  There are usually at least 10-15 other swimmers down there going back and forth.  Sometimes seals, but not lately.  Never sharks, Mr. Fin Seeker.

What's the buoy line?

I swim alone in Minocqua, but I can stand up at any point or touch a dock in less than 1 minutes if I run into a cramp or feel an aura coming on.   When I swam the IM course or another venue, I always had a partner and we literally were side by side or in sight of one another.  We had set stop points to check on each other.  My personal opinon is swimming alone in a body of water like the Bay is crazy unless you can literally stand up or grab something if you run into issues.  I really hate the phrase "the current is not too strong".  I didn't think it was too strong in Hawaii in thigh deep water either, but I was caught up in a riptide and nearly died. Not drama, the truth.

 



Edited by SSMinnow 2011-06-21 7:56 PM
2011-06-21 8:11 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 8:54 PM
kt65 - 2011-06-21 7:03 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 4:21 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

Ah this is something that i was thinking about last nite, this very thing! 

So do you think if i am not the panicky type and the current is not too strong out at Aquatic Park where I posted photo last nite, I could swim the buoy line even if there is no lifeguard?  i have always wanted to but always worry about the "swimming by yourself" thing that peeps talk about.  There are usually at least 10-15 other swimmers down there going back and forth.  Sometimes seals, but not lately.  Never sharks, Mr. Fin Seeker.

What's the buoy line?

I swim alone in Minocqua, but I can stand up at any point or touch a dock in less than 1 minutes if I run into a cramp or feel an aura coming on.   When I swam the IM course or another venue, I always had a partner and we literally were side by side or in sight of one another.  We had set stop points to check on each other.  My personal opinon is swimming alone in a body of water like the Bay is crazy unless you can literally stand up or grab something if you run into issues.  I really hate the phrase "the current is not too strong".  I didn't think it was too strong in Hawaii in thigh deep water either, but I was caught up in a riptide and nearly died. Not drama, the truth.

 

you didn't address my original post.  so i'll ask it this way... if something goes wrong during your IM swims are you qualified to attempt a rescue without putting yourself in danger?  or if your partner doesn't show up at the stop point then what, ie whats the point of the stop point?

i also disagree with you proposition that swimming in water shallow enough to stand in is a safe alternative.    its not and this has been proven, unfortunately, over and over and over again.

i totally agree with the current is not too strong BS as well. 

2011-06-21 8:20 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
deep water about 75-100 yards from shore, with buoys spaced every 25-50 yards. You can hold on and rest at the buoys, one lady had to last nite, to catch her breath. About 350-400 yards from one end to the other. It really is usually very calm, except near the entrance to the bay, but it is well protected otherwise. So, we aren't really out IN the bay, but it's not quite a harbor, either. Maybe a little more group practice first until I learn the currents and tide patterns. Sorry, my link didn't work.

Edited by kt65 2011-06-21 8:21 PM
2011-06-21 8:22 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

kt65 - 2011-06-21 9:20 PM Maybe a little more group practice first until I learn the currents and tide patterns.

or...    http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/

 

edit.  not advocating swimming alone or in a group.  just advocating swimming with local knowledge of the tides and currents.  you'll just be that much more well armed.  

 

now figure out which tide sharks feed on!

 

edit II  lol, water temps in the bay are colder than those that aero boobs is b+tching about!!!!

 



Edited by fattyfatfat 2011-06-21 8:26 PM
2011-06-21 8:29 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 6:22 PM

kt65 - 2011-06-21 9:20 PM Maybe a little more group practice first until I learn the currents and tide patterns.

or...    http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/

 

edit.  not advocating swimming alone or in a group.  just advocating swimming with local knowledge of the tides and currents.  you'll just be that much more well armed.  

 

now figure out which tide sharks feed on!

 

edit II  lol, water temps in the bay are colder than those that aero boobs is b+tching about!!!!

 

But really, the current was quite predictable, and only seemed to smack me in the face at the turnaround where we were told to anticipate it...and even though I am slow, I made good forward progress, that's all I meant. Sorry for not clarifying that statement.


2011-06-21 8:37 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 8:11 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 8:54 PM
kt65 - 2011-06-21 7:03 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 4:21 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

Ah this is something that i was thinking about last nite, this very thing! 

So do you think if i am not the panicky type and the current is not too strong out at Aquatic Park where I posted photo last nite, I could swim the buoy line even if there is no lifeguard?  i have always wanted to but always worry about the "swimming by yourself" thing that peeps talk about.  There are usually at least 10-15 other swimmers down there going back and forth.  Sometimes seals, but not lately.  Never sharks, Mr. Fin Seeker.

What's the buoy line?

I swim alone in Minocqua, but I can stand up at any point or touch a dock in less than 1 minutes if I run into a cramp or feel an aura coming on.   When I swam the IM course or another venue, I always had a partner and we literally were side by side or in sight of one another.  We had set stop points to check on each other.  My personal opinon is swimming alone in a body of water like the Bay is crazy unless you can literally stand up or grab something if you run into issues.  I really hate the phrase "the current is not too strong".  I didn't think it was too strong in Hawaii in thigh deep water either, but I was caught up in a riptide and nearly died. Not drama, the truth.

 

you didn't address my original post.  so i'll ask it this way... if something goes wrong during your IM swims are you qualified to attempt a rescue without putting yourself in danger?  or if your partner doesn't show up at the stop point then what, ie whats the point of the stop point?

Nope.  We literally swam next to each other or I could see her every time I sited.  The point of being together really was to make sure we both stayed calm.  We were nervous swimmers.  In a large body of water like Lake Monona I would have never swam alone, ever.  Still wouldnt.

i also disagree with you proposition that swimming in water shallow enough to stand in is a safe alternative.    its not and this has been proven, unfortunately, over and over and over again.

Confused.  If you don't think it's safe how can you advocate that someone go out 75-100 yards in very deep water by themselves?  You have to remember that not everyone has the same skills that you do at the moment.   I just think when you are new to OW it is better to be safe than sorry.  Ultimately, I would suggest you don't go out unless you are with a certified lifeguard or a kayak.  In class, we have both.

i totally agree with the current is not too strong BS as well. 

2011-06-21 8:45 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed

I agree with John on this one, not sure what someone unless they are a trained lifeguard maybe could do other than identify the spot they saw you go under.  I think if you are nervous about swimming solo you should get someone that has a kyak to go with you so you could hang on if needed.

Weren't you the one Suzy that had someone try to grab you because they were panicking?

I do agree though it "feels" safer to swim with someone but not sure what good they will do if something happens.

2011-06-21 8:56 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
dalessit - 2011-06-21 8:45 PM

I agree with John on this one, not sure what someone unless they are a trained lifeguard maybe could do other than identify the spot they saw you go under.  I think if you are nervous about swimming solo you should get someone that has a kyak to go with you so you could hang on if needed.

Weren't you the one Suzy that had someone try to grab you because they were panicking?

I do agree though it "feels" safer to swim with someone but not sure what good they will do if something happens.

Yep, that was me. 

Let's just agree to disagree on this one. 

2011-06-21 8:58 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 9:37 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 8:11 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 8:54 PM
kt65 - 2011-06-21 7:03 PM
fattyfatfat - 2011-06-21 4:21 PM
SSMinnow - 2011-06-21 6:40 PM

are you all alone???  I know you are a good swimmer, but still.

not just at you suz but....  i hear people say it all the time.  i don't get it.  the only thing swimming with someone else may be good for is telling rescue personnel were to start looking for a body. 

even if you glance around for someone every ten strokes or so there's still a very good chance you won't see them go down.  but what if you do see them get into trouble... are most people qualified to handle an open water rescue that minimizes the danger to THEMSELVES.

from life guard training when i was younger i recall the instructors telling us to use a plole or float or something if you think the person in trouble might be panicking.  because if they are and they get a hold of you, YOU could be in big trouble.

if the person has a heart attack or something that knocks them out are you going to see it and get to them in time? 

i don't know,  i just never got this.   help me out here...

now swimming with a a vessel such as a kayak, canoe, motor boat, etc... i totally get that but don't really think this is always an option.

Ah this is something that i was thinking about last nite, this very thing! 

So do you think if i am not the panicky type and the current is not too strong out at Aquatic Park where I posted photo last nite, I could swim the buoy line even if there is no lifeguard?  i have always wanted to but always worry about the "swimming by yourself" thing that peeps talk about.  There are usually at least 10-15 other swimmers down there going back and forth.  Sometimes seals, but not lately.  Never sharks, Mr. Fin Seeker.

What's the buoy line?

I swim alone in Minocqua, but I can stand up at any point or touch a dock in less than 1 minutes if I run into a cramp or feel an aura coming on.   When I swam the IM course or another venue, I always had a partner and we literally were side by side or in sight of one another.  We had set stop points to check on each other.  My personal opinon is swimming alone in a body of water like the Bay is crazy unless you can literally stand up or grab something if you run into issues.  I really hate the phrase "the current is not too strong".  I didn't think it was too strong in Hawaii in thigh deep water either, but I was caught up in a riptide and nearly died. Not drama, the truth.

 

you didn't address my original post.  so i'll ask it this way... if something goes wrong during your IM swims are you qualified to attempt a rescue without putting yourself in danger?  or if your partner doesn't show up at the stop point then what, ie whats the point of the stop point?

Nope.  We literally swam next to each other or I could see her every time I sited.  The point of being together really was to make sure we both stayed calm.  We were nervous swimmers.  In a large body of water like Lake Monona I would have never swam alone, ever.  Still wouldnt.

ok, so then your point is open water with other swimmers is simply to stay calm.  i can see that and.  i've done that in really cold water and it works.  i just don't think that when most people suggest swimming with others is safer than swimming alone its because of the stay calm part but rather to help out if something goes wrong.   again, thats what i don't get.

i also disagree with you proposition that swimming in water shallow enough to stand in is a safe alternative.    its not and this has been proven, unfortunately, over and over and over again.

Confused.  If you don't think it's safe how can you advocate that someone go out 75-100 yards in very deep water by themselves?  You have to remember that not everyone has the same skills that you do at the moment.   I just think when you are new to OW it is better to be safe than sorry.  Ultimately, I would suggest you don't go out unless you are with a certified lifeguard or a kayak.  In class, we have both.

not confused.  and you're twisting my words around.  i never suggested deep water is safer than shallow water and i would never advocate anyone go out 10 feet let alone 75-100 yards in very deep water unless i knew there skill level and conditions.  you indicate in your bay comment that swimming in water shallow enough to stand is safe.  lots of folks drown from thinking this way.

my skill level... HA!  i'm not a very good swimmer. 

i totally agree with the current is not too strong BS as well. 

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