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SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 140)
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 2013-04-12 4:03 PM in reply to: #4698364 |
Elite  3779      Ontario |  Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPENChrisM - 2013-04-12 4:58 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 1:55 PM axteraa - 2013-04-12 3:43 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 5:33 PM axteraa - 2013-04-12 3:32 PM If my coach wanted me to wear one and start using it, I would. Your coach goes by pace ? E pace, M pace, T pace, I pace and R pace are all new things I have learned about in the last 6 months.
You have a good coach....but we knew that :-) He just needs to come visit more often doesn't sound like we have the same coach since I don't know what those are :^ I'm guessing Easy, Marathon, Threshold, Interval, Race... |
| 2013-04-12 4:10 PM in reply to: #4698320 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN marcag - 2013-04-12 4:31 PM GoFaster - 2013-04-12 2:32 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 1:46 PM But coming back to the comment I made to Neil. He is going to go out, get a number...then what does he do with it ? I find it's a nice number to know, but kind of useless.
The simple answer - I'm curious to see if my zones have changed since the last time I really tested. The main reason for this, is that even though I've had a crappy winter of running injuries, I'm suprised at where my HR is in relation to pace at the moment. I'm running faster than I "feel" I maybe should be, but at the same time HR is quite low, and the effort level is also low. But I doubt my ability to guage RPE - doesn't matter if it's HR or watts, I just never click based on feel. So I rely on the data in front of me. Because I'm coming off injury, and not sure where my pacing should put me, I decided to rely on HR instead and am keeping most runs in Z1/2. Once I feel I have my legs back, and some volume in them, then I'll start to use pacing more. If my running had remained consistent then I would be tracking HR and paying attention to it, but I'd rely on pace first. FWIW, I would love Shane to comment on this....I am of the belief that LTHR does not vary much and HR zones do not vary much The pace you can hold at LTHR does cange but LTHR does not change much. Probably less than the accuracy of the test. I was tested 4 years ago in lab for actual lactate threshold. I was tested last year and it was identical. Pace was much quicker last year. So I suspect that if you tesetd LTHR last year, it will be almost the same this year if you put the same effort into the run. The pace will be different most likely. That's what I believe would happen in this body. Hence if you are going to bust a nut, go out and do a 10k I bet you can even get an approximation of LTHR looking at your 10k run file.
That makes a lot of sense, and falls in line with why I track HR for the most part - to see if I'm running faster/easier at different HR's. I was doing a good amount of running (for me) last summer, and it really became apparent that things were clicking when I got home after running a hot hilly16km, at a decent pace, with a low overall HR. Really highlighted that my run training was headed in the right direction. I wasn't ready to try an LTHR test at the moment anyway, it was more a curiosity question. But now I don't think it's really necessary. I'll just see how HR acts in a couple of Sprint races this year, and pluf the numbers in the BT calculator to compare with the ones I use at the moment. |
| 2013-04-12 4:11 PM in reply to: #4698372 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN GoFaster - 2013-04-12 2:03 PM ChrisM - 2013-04-12 4:58 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 1:55 PM axteraa - 2013-04-12 3:43 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 5:33 PM axteraa - 2013-04-12 3:32 PM If my coach wanted me to wear one and start using it, I would. Your coach goes by pace ? E pace, M pace, T pace, I pace and R pace are all new things I have learned about in the last 6 months.
You have a good coach....but we knew that :-) He just needs to come visit more often doesn't sound like we have the same coach since I don't know what those are :^ I'm guessing Easy, Marathon, Threshold, Interval, Race... yeah, figured those, but other than Easy and Race (which depends on what race), they are not defiend. I.e. interval can be a number of paces depending on the interval. Although I have to say I always laugh a little at run easy and then run at marathon pace, so I slow down |
| 2013-04-12 4:24 PM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Welcome Matt. Hope you do not get too confused with all the Kim's in the group. Ok, there are only two of us, but still.. |
| 2013-04-12 4:28 PM in reply to: #4698372 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN GoFaster - 2013-04-12 6:03 PM ChrisM - 2013-04-12 4:58 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 1:55 PM axteraa - 2013-04-12 3:43 PM marcag - 2013-04-12 5:33 PM axteraa - 2013-04-12 3:32 PM If my coach wanted me to wear one and start using it, I would. Your coach goes by pace ? E pace, M pace, T pace, I pace and R pace are all new things I have learned about in the last 6 months.
You have a good coach....but we knew that :-) He just needs to come visit more often doesn't sound like we have the same coach since I don't know what those are :^ I'm guessing Easy, Marathon, Threshold, Interval, Race... R is repetition. I've only ever done 200s for that. |
| 2013-04-12 4:53 PM in reply to: #4543084 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Thanks all for the welcome! I'm sure I'll be confused by more than just having a few Kims to follow, but that's my baseline... As for HR, I use it mostly for training and in a retrospective way. Most of my workouts are by pace (running) or power (riding), and I use the HR to look back and see how the HR zone matched with both RPE and my target zone. It helps (me, at least) to track both current fatigue (high RPE for pace and HR) and longer term progress (lower HR for pace) when looking at the workout after I've finished. Once I have a number around my waist, HR is more of a curiosity, as I have a target speed for whatever race it is and try to stick to that. Sometimes that means blowing up, sometimes it means having a little gas in the tank to hammer the finish - but I don't typically change my race during based on HR, as I find that learning to suffer will let you keep a higher HR for longer than you "should" be able to - if you're happily meandering around in your pain cave... There's been a lot of talk about QT2 (Hope I got that right) among some local folks and the HR training method they use (based on - and I know I'll get the name wrong - Phil Mafetone (?) and his coaching of Mark Allen back before Iron War). I haven't read much more than was in the eponymous book, so only have a surface understanding of the approach. Seems to work for many. For me, it's been about getting fit and then the HR is pretty consistent for each type of workout. You can still "run lots, mostly slow, sometimes fast" using pace… or RPE… or HR… Matt |
| 2013-04-12 5:00 PM in reply to: #4697748 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN GoFaster - 2013-04-12 10:57 AM LTHR question. I've seen a couple of different ways of doing a field test. Either: a) Warmup for 10min, run for 30min, record avg HR for last 20min Is one better than the other? Obviously you have to alter your pacing strategy between the two, and I would assume for test a your avg would be potentially lower than test b, but maybe I'm wrong. Although this might be at odds with my previous post, where I state that I'm happily ignorant of my LTHR (in way more words than that, though), I'm curious nonetheless... So, per option b), if I recently ran a 5k (check) for which I did about a 10' warmup (check) and raced for about 20' (check - or at least the last 20' was a pretty fair gauge of a "max effort" TT), could I just take my average HR for the last 20' and call that my LTHR? Would the 10-15' between warmup and race start be too long, and thus lower my LTHR from what it "really" is? Would be convenient if it worked out. That'd be sweet, if I did a field test and didn't even know it! The odd thing is that my average HR there is only a few beats from my flat out max HR <chants "pain cave, pain cave, pain cave">
Matt |
| 2013-04-12 5:14 PM in reply to: #4543084 |
Master 2411 Goodyear, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Welcome Mat(t) (see what I did there?) I'm Sally and I don't use Power, HR, LTHR,or any kind of testing...so sometimes I don't feel like I have much to add to the discussions here but they let me hang around anyways Glad you joined our group! |
| 2013-04-12 5:20 PM in reply to: #4698445 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN riorio - 2013-04-12 3:14 PM Welcome Mat(t) (see what I did there?) I'm Sally and I don't use Power, HR, LTHR,or any kind of testing...so sometimes I don't feel like I have much to add to the discussions here but they let me hang around anyways Glad you joined our group! and yet faster then most that do... |
| 2013-04-12 5:30 PM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Sorry, this is sort of a vent, since I don't want to take this to my wife -- AGAIN -- who is likely sick of hearing about a hobby athlete like myself whine and moan about not being able to participate in a race.....I don't even necessarily need any responses, just a place to put this where people who have been there understand and don't mind a little more whining, or at least are willing to put up with it. But injuries just put the hurt on me physically and almost moreso mentally. I *know* everything will heal, and I will be up and running (literally) in no time. But every time I suffer an injury I go to the "what if I am never able to X again" card, what if it never heals, what if I need surgery, blah freaking blah. Whaever the worst possible outcome, that's where I go. I get thrown off my rhythm and schedule and everything starts going to pot. I am not motivated to do the workouts I can do. I eat worse, and since I am training less I start gaining a bit of weight (and the thought of going back to where I was utterly frightens the S out of me), causing a bit more depression, causing the whole cycle to go 'round and 'round. Then I get a period of time when there is no pain (granted, this is not debilitating type of pain), and I think "hey, it was all in my head/ was not what I thought it was/ etc." Then it comes back. High. Low. Higher. Lower. And, of course, I have a lot invested in having signed up for an Ironman, financially and otherwise. Will I be able to even start? Will I be able to train properly? Yes, I realize it's 4 months away. But, it is also only 4 months away. I know that it is not a healthy attitude, and I struggle with that. I get that this is an opportunity, to eat better regardless of training sessions (i.e., not using them as an excuse to eat more), to train limiters (well, which is really my run), to maybe do core work... But that's not where I go with these things. Thanks for the place to vent /vent off |
| 2013-04-12 5:38 PM in reply to: #4698432 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN mcmanusclan5 - 2013-04-12 5:00 PM So, per option b), if I recently ran a 5k (check) for which I did about a 10' warmup (check) and raced for about 20' (check - or at least the last 20' was a pretty fair gauge of a "max effort" TT), could I just take my average HR for the last 20' and call that my LTHR? Would the 10-15' between warmup and race start be too long, and thus lower my LTHR from what it "really" is? Would be convenient if it worked out. That's why option a is preferred. That ramp up can mess with things. |
 2013-04-12 5:50 PM in reply to: #4698462 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-04-12 6:36 PM in reply to: #4698462 |
| Master 2411 Goodyear, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN ChrisM - 2013-04-12 3:30 PM Sorry, this is sort of a vent, since I don't want to take this to my wife -- AGAIN -- who is likely sick of hearing about a hobby athlete like myself whine and moan about not being able to participate in a race.....I don't even necessarily need any responses, just a place to put this where people who have been there understand and don't mind a little more whining, or at least are willing to put up with it. But injuries just put the hurt on me physically and almost moreso mentally. I *know* everything will heal, and I will be up and running (literally) in no time. But every time I suffer an injury I go to the "what if I am never able to X again" card, what if it never heals, what if I need surgery, blah freaking blah. Whaever the worst possible outcome, that's where I go. I get thrown off my rhythm and schedule and everything starts going to pot. I am not motivated to do the workouts I can do. I eat worse, and since I am training less I start gaining a bit of weight (and the thought of going back to where I was utterly frightens the S out of me), causing a bit more depression, causing the whole cycle to go 'round and 'round. Then I get a period of time when there is no pain (granted, this is not debilitating type of pain), and I think "hey, it was all in my head/ was not what I thought it was/ etc." Then it comes back. High. Low. Higher. Lower. And, of course, I have a lot invested in having signed up for an Ironman, financially and otherwise. Will I be able to even start? Will I be able to train properly? Yes, I realize it's 4 months away. But, it is also only 4 months away. I know that it is not a healthy attitude, and I struggle with that. I get that this is an opportunity, to eat better regardless of training sessions (i.e., not using them as an excuse to eat more), to train limiters (well, which is really my run), to maybe do core work... But that's not where I go with these things. Thanks for the place to vent /vent off Vent away Chris. I hated when people would suggest "core work" or "water running" when I was injured...I get why people say that but really we just want to swim/bike/run to our hearts content! I just wrote a post on my blog the other day about injury: http://sally-whatamidoing.blogspot.com/
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| 2013-04-12 8:07 PM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Headed to the valley tomorrow to go mountain biking. So very excited. I went there the other week to mountain bike and it is the most awesome spot. I was with Tina though so I stuck with her. But this time I get to let it rip. It's a course that is just meant to be ridden fast (no, really, there are signs saying this is meant to be ridden fast) |
| 2013-04-12 9:38 PM in reply to: #4698462 |
| Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN ChrisM - 2013-04-12 3:30 PM Sorry, this is sort of a vent, since I don't want to take this to my wife -- AGAIN -- who is likely sick of hearing about a hobby athlete like myself whine and moan about not being able to participate in a race.....I don't even necessarily need any responses, just a place to put this where people who have been there understand and don't mind a little more whining, or at least are willing to put up with it. But injuries just put the hurt on me physically and almost moreso mentally. I *know* everything will heal, and I will be up and running (literally) in no time. But every time I suffer an injury I go to the "what if I am never able to X again" card, what if it never heals, what if I need surgery, blah freaking blah. Whaever the worst possible outcome, that's where I go. I get thrown off my rhythm and schedule and everything starts going to pot. I am not motivated to do the workouts I can do. I eat worse, and since I am training less I start gaining a bit of weight (and the thought of going back to where I was utterly frightens the S out of me), causing a bit more depression, causing the whole cycle to go 'round and 'round. Then I get a period of time when there is no pain (granted, this is not debilitating type of pain), and I think "hey, it was all in my head/ was not what I thought it was/ etc." Then it comes back. High. Low. Higher. Lower. And, of course, I have a lot invested in having signed up for an Ironman, financially and otherwise. Will I be able to even start? Will I be able to train properly? Yes, I realize it's 4 months away. But, it is also only 4 months away. I know that it is not a healthy attitude, and I struggle with that. I get that this is an opportunity, to eat better regardless of training sessions (i.e., not using them as an excuse to eat more), to train limiters (well, which is really my run), to maybe do core work... But that's not where I go with these things. Thanks for the place to vent /vent off Oh can I empathize!! I also feel for my poor significant other having to deal with my venting / melt downs. I've been struggling through some new crap (hamstring in addition to my knee) and just today was feeling like, "I'm supposed to be doing this for fun....and this isn't fun." I don't want to give up because I remember how fun it was / can be. But I totally get the feeling crappy, wanting to bail on workouts that you can do (and know would make you feel better), and drink that extra beer / have a larger helping of dinner/dessert/whatever. I don't have a whole lot of advice to offer because I'm still feeling much the same way as you are (in addition to having signed up for an expensive [H]IM), but I do know how you feel and do hope that it will get better and we'll get through it. In the meantime, even though it feels better to bail on the swim or ride, you'll feel better if you knock them out....so get out there and do it |
| 2013-04-13 7:32 AM in reply to: #4698628 |
| Regular 186 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Welcome Matt Sorry Fred. Can you bump down to a shorter race? as far as SHIPPING bikes. Only if u absolutely have to. myself and others in my old bike club all have stories about stuff going wrong. I did finally get both halves of a motorcycle lost by DHL Yellow....The guy in Arkansas replaced the damage on the bike i sent him. It can be done. But a CARBON bike....risky. Thx for that w/o Rob.....not like i did it or anything....just looks good on paper. lol!! I bought new shoes Brooks trance 12. Nice offroad lot of stability. They dont need any breaking in ...but my legs noticed something changed. Got my son an Adamo road race seat for fourty bucks. Its hard as a rock. Perfect for a teenager. Pool switched to long course. yipee. now im at the high school track waiting for it to warm up above 60 before I run. |
| 2013-04-13 7:37 AM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Expert 1951 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN This is a screenshot of the TR 20 minute test I took today. I could feel the churning of my tummy on this one.
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| 2013-04-13 7:39 AM in reply to: #4698749 |
| Expert 1951 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN dustytrails - 2013-04-13 8:32 AM Welcome Matt Sorry Fred. Can you bump down to a shorter race? as far as SHIPPING bikes. Only if u absolutely have to. myself and others in my old bike club all have stories about stuff going wrong. I did finally get both halves of a motorcycle lost by DHL Yellow....The guy in Arkansas replaced the damage on the bike i sent him. It can be done. But a CARBON bike....risky. Thx for that w/o Rob.....not like i did it or anything....just looks good on paper. lol!! I bought new shoes Brooks trance 12. Nice offroad lot of stability. They dont need any breaking in ...but my legs noticed something changed. Got my son an Adamo road race seat for fourty bucks. Its hard as a rock. Perfect for a teenager. Pool switched to long course. yipee. now im at the high school track waiting for it to warm up above 60 before I run. Great stuff Linda. I love my Brooks Trance. |
| 2013-04-13 10:25 AM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Champion 6656 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Decided to switch my workouts around a bit in hopes of better weather in a few days. Whoever controls the weather decided to give us another "spring blizzard" today. So not ideal for bike-run-bike-run with the wind and cold. Worst case I'll go to the base gym and suffer that workout inside with the spin bikes/treadmill/track. Trainer and swim for today then. Go away snow  |
| 2013-04-13 10:42 AM in reply to: #4698753 |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN KateTri1 - 2013-04-13 9:37 AM This is a screenshot of the TR 20 minute test I took today. I could feel the churning of my tummy on this one.
Good stuff! What do the red and yellow lines signify? Is the like marked FTP what TR evaluated your FTP at based on the test? If so, that's quite a bit higher than the 115 you got from the 8 minute test! |
| 2013-04-13 10:43 AM in reply to: #4698842 |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN mndymond - 2013-04-13 12:25 PM Decided to switch my workouts around a bit in hopes of better weather in a few days. Whoever controls the weather decided to give us another "spring blizzard" today. So not ideal for bike-run-bike-run with the wind and cold. Worst case I'll go to the base gym and suffer that workout inside with the spin bikes/treadmill/track. Trainer and swim for today then. Go away snow We were supposed to get a spring blizzard (well not quite) but it seems to have missed us. We got a few cms of snow but it has almost all melted already. I got in a 35 min run this morning and have a long trainer ride on tap for the afternoon. |
| 2013-04-13 11:28 AM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Master 1890 Gig Harbor | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN On the advice of Ms Yanti - I am here. (I don't know much, but I know I would be foolish not to take Yanti's advice). NAME: Chad aka "Skrat" STORY: Grew up a competitive swimmer, and cycled a lot (mostly touring) as a teenager. For as long as I can remember, I have wanted to do an Ironman - but I HATED RUNNING. Fast forward 25 years. I was 39 years old, post separation from my wife of 12 years, mildly depressed, gaining weight, eating like chit and one day it hit me! I was probably going to have a heart attack in the next 10 years. Why? Because both my Father and Grandfather had their first heart attacks in their 40's. I was definitely heading down that path. I decided to get in shape, so I hit the treadmill. Couldn't run 1 mile on a treadmill in July of 2011 (I will never forget how painful that first run was). I stuck with it, and found a love of running, so the next logical step was to do an Ironman right?
FAMILY STATUS: Divorced - and a huge flirt. 2012 RACES: Expedition Man Full (140.6) Santa runs Tacoma 10K, Christmas fun run 10K. Yukon Do it 1/2 marathon. I ran a 2:04 in 2011... Ran 1:36:55 in 2012! That winter of run training paid off. 2013 RACES: Vancouver Chilly Chase 12K - (52:13) Lake Sammamish 1/2 - (DNF - pulled out @ mile 8 with calf issues) Eugene 1/2 Marathon - (not sure if I'm going to run this or not) Pacific Crest Oly - (6/30/13) Expedition Man 140.6 (8/24/13) Yukon Do It 1/2 Mary (full?) - (12/31/13)
WINTER TRAINING GOALS: Worked on my running...I am now focusing on cycling / running this year. WHAT WOULD MAKE ME A GOOD MEMBER: Swimming knowledge and expertise. I can break down a swim stoke like there's no tomorrow. With regards to running, cycling and nutrition: I have a million questions that pop up on a daily basis. My overall goal is to KQ. I believe I can go 10:30 in my 140.6 this year... I really need to learn more to knock off that extra hour, and I hope to be a sponge in this group. Thanks for having me. |
| 2013-04-13 11:43 AM in reply to: #4698890 |
| Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Muskrat37 - 2013-04-13 11:28 PM On the advice of Ms Yanti - I am here. (I don't know much, but I know I would be foolish not to take Yanti's advice). NAME: Chad aka "Skrat" STORY: Grew up a competitive swimmer, and cycled a lot (mostly touring) as a teenager. For as long as I can remember, I have wanted to do an Ironman - but I HATED RUNNING. Fast forward 25 years. I was 39 years old, post separation from my wife of 12 years, mildly depressed, gaining weight, eating like chit and one day it hit me! I was probably going to have a heart attack in the next 10 years. Why? Because both my Father and Grandfather had their first heart attacks in their 40's. I was definitely heading down that path. I decided to get in shape, so I hit the treadmill. Couldn't run 1 mile on a treadmill in July of 2011 (I will never forget how painful that first run was). I stuck with it, and found a love of running, so the next logical step was to do an Ironman right?
FAMILY STATUS: Divorced - and a huge flirt. 2012 RACES: Expedition Man Full (140.6) Santa runs Tacoma 10K, Christmas fun run 10K. Yukon Do it 1/2 marathon. I ran a 2:04 in 2011... Ran 1:36:55 in 2012! That winter of run training paid off. 2013 RACES: Vancouver Chilly Chase 12K - (52:13) Lake Sammamish 1/2 - (DNF - pulled out @ mile 8 with calf issues) Eugene 1/2 Marathon - (not sure if I'm going to run this or not) Pacific Crest Oly - (6/30/13) Expedition Man 140.6 (8/24/13) Yukon Do It 1/2 Mary (full?) - (12/31/13)
WINTER TRAINING GOALS: Worked on my running...I am now focusing on cycling / running this year. WHAT WOULD MAKE ME A GOOD MEMBER: Swimming knowledge and expertise. I can break down a swim stoke like there's no tomorrow. With regards to running, cycling and nutrition: I have a million questions that pop up on a daily basis. My overall goal is to KQ. I believe I can go 10:30 in my 140.6 this year... I really need to learn more to knock off that extra hour, and I hope to be a sponge in this group. Thanks for having me. RUN!!! I was just further reinforcing what he's worked on this year. |
| 2013-04-13 12:26 PM in reply to: #4698907 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN TriAya - 2013-04-13 11:43 AM Muskrat37 - 2013-04-13 11:28 PM On the advice of Ms Yanti - I am here. (I don't know much, but I know I would be foolish not to take Yanti's advice). RUN!!! Good advice as far as this one is concerned! |
| 2013-04-13 1:28 PM in reply to: #4543084 |
| Master 2411 Goodyear, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN Just another ride in paradise this morning. Started early with a friend, then met the group for the first half of their ride...got in 60 miles....then off to my son's soccer game. We are now leaving for a wedding, followed by a family BBQ, followed by a friend's 50th bday party! Yikes!  |
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