Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED (Page 15)

I've wanted a pair of CWX for some time, but can't get over the cost.  You're saying they're worth it though?

The diaper pics reminded me of something I read about cycling with a more complete motion/stroke: Pretend you're trying to get poop of the bottom of your shoe, push down and pull back across the ground to get it off.

Dustin

As with anything that is good quality they are expensive. I have 2 pair. I REALLY like them a lot. I do all my long runs in them in spring and fall when it is cold out.

With all the running I've done, I've never had any issues with my calves; but now that I'm swimmimg I've been getting cramps in them! I have yet to make it through a swim workout without cramping at least once. This morning I cramped in both calves at the same time. It happens generally after pushing off the wall. I usually have a banana before the swim and I feel as though I consume enough water (at least I've never had any indication during a run that I needed to hydrate more).Anyone ever experience this? Any suggestions as to the problem.Thx,Ann-Marie

The only time I ever got calf cramps while running was during my marathon and I'll admit I wasn't hydrated enough. But I do have the same problem with swimming. I've been swimming 1600-1800 yards, and always in the last 200 yards my calves start cramping. Its frustrating because I'll need to swim further in the HIM, and then bike and run after. I don't want to come out of the water cramping already. I always bring a huge bottle of water with me on my swims and its all gone by the end of my workout, but doesn't make a difference.

Although, I have not had this problem myself, I have talked to people that have.  Dr. Davenport brought this up in the ESI clinic on Thursday night.  He suggests magnesium (along with Calcium) in pretty high doses (2000mg, I think).  And there is a better form of it, but can't recall which one he suggested (maybe Steve can, or the session was videotaped and should be posted at some point). 

Anyway, after the session I ran into one of his patients (Karie) at the health club and she said she had the same issues and has noticed a huge difference since taking it.

I am not a doctor, though, so take it with a grain of salt.  Maybe Steve can add something from his experiences.

I've thought about it, but can't get over the cost either. Presently, I just have regular UA tights.

Magnesium - that's interesting. I'll have to check it out. My calves have gotten such a workout swimmimg that I've taken to wearing compression leg sleeves afterward. thankfully, i don't feel the soreness while running.

Yes, you should really focus on the full electrolyte profile. As endurance athletes, sodium is only part of the profile we burn through. Magnesium and calcium are two others that we burn through a ton. Chealate (sp?) is the form u want to get as it attaches to amino acid and absorbs more readily. I'm partial to hammer's endurolytes but there are other brands that contain the full electrolyte profile in chealate form.

thanks, i'll look into it this weekend.

I personally can not imagine spending most of my time in Z4.

Looking back at my training from last year I spent a lot of time doing tempo, threshold, fartlek and other various speed workouts. Yes, I spent very little time in Z4, but I personally have a hard time staying in Z4 in training. Racing, now that is where I try to keep my HR through the whole race.

I distinctly remember last summer being overjoyed to see a Z1/Z2 workout.

Now, let's hear what the experts have to say.

There is a big fallacy among IM athletes that volume is key and intensity has
little to no place.  However, this is not true and intensity must be used.  
You have to train fast to race fast...period.

Unfortunately, most AGers read this to mean they need to race their friends
all the time while training and go go go hard.  Only if it were that
easy/simple of a solution. 

One of the main things I would like to point out is that intensity does NOT
replace volume and volume does NOT replace intensity.  If you only train 5-8
hours/wk and want to do a IM, don't think that going z4 all the time will
replace volume.  Conversely, if you train 30 hours/wk, don't think volume will
replace any work needed in z4.  It doesn't and it won't.

Despite what "other" coaching companies may or may not purport, it really does
depend on the athlete as to how much and when to use this intensity.  One of
the main reasons our company does not sell training plans is because it has
become quite obvious that some athletes need volume in the off season while
others need intensity.  Why, you may ask?

Endurance takes years to build (not months) and depending on how much
endurance the athlete has built over the years will depend on what they need
to focus on during the off season.  If an athlete comes to me that has solid
endurance under their belt (defining what this is and how I determine it is
outside the scope of this post) then the off season can be used to increase
top end speed and pull up FTP from the top...with caution.  But if the
converse is true, z2 and some z3 work is all the non-endurance athlete will be
doing in the off season.

There have been many newbie IMers that read articles such as the one you have
referenced (which is fundamentally sound by the way) and think the fast way to
IM is intensity and so they don't need to do volume.  Unfortunately, that's
not the case.  IMers that can get away with 15hrs/wk and reach their potential
through the use of intensity replacement of volume is those with a solid
endurance foundation built over years of...well...endurance work.

Zones are defined differently by different people, but let's not get into that
(again, outside the scope of this post) so with that disclaimer aside, zone 2
is truly the endurance zone and forms the solid foundation on which a tall
pillar can be built.  Think of your performance as a box, you can only perform
within your box and therefore it's best to make your box taller (high FTP) than
the next person's.  However, as we all know, building a tall box
that is narrow will just cause it to fall over once it reaches a certain
height.  Consequently, we must have a very WIDE base (wide box) in order which
to built a tall AND stable box.  YOu must put in time in z2 enough so that
when you begin to do z4 and z5 work...all doesn't come crumbling down.  
Crumbling down you ask?  Why do you speak in such analogies Steve you ask? 

See, if you don't have a strong solid and wide base (z2) then you will have
limited ability to HOLD your "high box" throughout the entire race.  By way of
example, if Athlete A has years of endurance experience and Athlete B does not
but they both effectuate the same training (aka through a "training plan") and
then they both toe the start line with the same FTP as determined by a 40min
TT (or 1 hour TT even) Athelte B runs the risk of not sustaining a high % of his FTP
for his 5-7 hour IM bike ride or if he does, his run may suffer because he
overcooked it.  Having the ability to hold a HIGH percentage of your FTP for a
LONG period of time is also a very very large component in addition to just
having a high FTP.  It serves an IM athlete no good to have a high FTP in a
testing environment if they can't hold a high % of it for hours upon
hours...they will crack on IM race day.

Zone 3 is a very powerful way to "combine" the benefits of z2 as well as z4.  
Again, just like everything else, it must be used properly depending on the
athlete's background and their strong (or weak) points.  While z3 has been
shown to be effective in "pushing up" FTP and z4/z5 has been shown to be
effective in "pulling up" FTP, the box upon which the height is being built on
needs to be wide enough to support it.

So, this is why "speed" is just not simply the answer.  There really is no
"magic bullet" to training.  You need to put time in the saddle in z2 as well
as z3, and z4 but you need to do it appropriately.  People don't need to spend
months and months in z2 (i never have any of my athletes do that) but the
amount of time they spend in z2 over those months and months depends on how
sufficient their endurance is.  Same goes for z4 and z5 trng.
Once the build periods come as the "A" race(s) get near, more and more time is
spent in z4/z5 as V02 max work becomes more of a mainstay in the athlete's
training diet.

Bottom line is while some "methods" may try to convince you that humans are
all so similar there is no need to "personalize" your training but rather you
can simply follow a "training plan" and get "good enough" results;
physiologically we are not similar when it comes to our athletic backgrounds,
how we got to this sport, and how our bodies react to training stress loads.

Please, anyone that is a member of our mentor group; please feel free to post follow up
questions.

Tracy-by the way, love the logo in your signature. 

edited to correct a few spelling errors and typos...



Edited by Steve- 2010-02-02 6:38 PM

Great information Steve!

Finally went swimming today for the first time in many months.  My balance seemed off on my left side.  Right side was fine.  Any suggestions for helping this issue?

try single arm drills.  there's a video that illustrates in on our facebook page.  Just search for the group "Endurance Sports Institute"

let us know how that works after you do it for a week or so.

Steve, the above post is exactly why YOU are my coach. Your breadth of knowledge and understanding of such complexities is truly amazing. I know this sounds like an kissy post, but it is true.

People often look at my logs and ask my why I am doing this or that at this time of year, etc. I simply say...my coach has a plan for me. I don't question it, I just do it. I leave the details up to him. That is what I pay him for. I don't care to be an expert on anything other than how hard can I push through a race and what podium position does it give me.

Thanks for another great post Steve.

Thanks for a great reply Steve.  It makes perfect sense to say that volume and intensity need to be utilized together over the course of a training plan.  I like the idea of building a wide/solid base to build on (years of endurance training).  Thanks again.

Well, we are back from our trip to St Louis, MO.  We went to visit family, as my wife's sister had their 3rd baby recently.  It was a long drive at about 9 hours each way.

While we were there, Becky (my wife) started to develop some pain in her upper inner left thigh.  When we looked at it, there was a large red spot that seemed to also make a line down towards her knee.  We tried to cover all of the basics of a reaction to clothing or pant seams rubbing on her leg during the car ride.  All the while I wondered about a DVT (deep vein thrombosis) - which are *typical* after long trips with little movement.  Plus Becky had recently been on antibiotics for an upper respiratory infection.  The next day the pain seemed much worse and limited her ability to walk without a gimp.  The pain also seemed to stay on the inside of her leg, but now traveled down to her ankle.  After finding that there were NO Urgent Care facilities near where we were staying, we went in to the ER.

So at this point you're prolly wondering why I'm telling you all this.  Let me make the connection, women listen up so if this happens to you, you don't absolutely freak out.

Superficial Thrombophlebitis of the Greater Saphenous Vein.  Most of us can key in on a few words.  GSV is the large vein on the inside of the legs, some people's GSV are very prominent in the lower leg, running up the in side of the calf.  The symptoms of redness and pain are very similar to a deep vein thrombosis - a serious and potentially life threatening situation.  (DVT is a blood clot in the large blood vessels that can become loose and instantly travel to the lungs causing trouble breathing and death).

So the condition that Becky had was not life threatening, in fact it is easily treated with anti inflammatory meds and warm packs/hot baths. 

The reason that it's notable here is that there is no real predictable measures and it 'normally' happens in young to middle age women.  It's not very common, but can quickly be ruled NOT a DVT by an ultrasound.  So if you notice a sore red spot that doesn't turn to a bruise, may seem to move up or down your leg... don't freak out.  Take some Motrin, Tylenol or Aleve and Go see a doctor.

Becky is doing much better now, still has the slight discomfort, but was given prescription strength naprosen and told to take regular warm baths and to rest the leg 3x a day. 

That is all

Glad to hear she's OK.  Health of the family is paramount.

On a similar but different note that has nothing to do with Triathlon...I was walking into the healthclub lastnight and I heard a thud and saw what looked like a person trip and fall as they exited the club..but they didn't get up.  This happened about 50ft in front of me.  A man passing "it" (entering the club) looked back and said "are you ok"...no response/movement so he ran into the club and had them call 911.  He then came back outside.  By this time I arrived at the scene and looked down and saw it was a body/person not some pile of books or something.  It was a lady approx mid 50s with eyes closed and laying flat on her face.

2 people plus me were the first people there.  We tried to get a response but nothing.  Someone was checking her pulse and someone was checking her breathing.  I asked both of them if they "got anything" they responded "no".  "God dammit", I thought.  I immediately assumed the position to begin compressions (I'm CPR certified) and thought to myself...oh boy, here we go....

Before I began compressions I wanted to check for breath one more time...because...well...that's just they way I learned, check for breath always comes before compressions.  So I put my check up against her nose and she was breathing.  YEAH!  I checked for a pulse and she had one....YEAH!  Ok...I had a sigh of relief that those two things were good.

Then another person came to the scene who was also certified in CPR and tried to illicit a response from her....nothing.  She then began having a seizure, but a moderate one...so we let it pass just ensuring she didn't hit herself in the face or anything.  About 45 sec later it subsided and someone began to attempt to illicit a response.  She responded with her name and responded that she didn't feel well.  We told her that she fell down and hit her head and that help is on the way and she should not try to get up but just stay relaxed and lay on the ground.

At this time, the police showed up and there were now like 10 people at the scene including some fitness center department heads.  Once fitness center employee had a clipboard and diligently was taking notes and mentioned that he recognized the lady and that she had a seizure in the club a few weeks back.

I left the scene because I was not just getting in the way.  The ambulance came about 5 min after I left the scene and they took her away.

Ok...sorry to derail this triathlon related post...but Jeremy's story reminded me about this event that happened last night.

yes.  you want to minimize frontal area so the water has less to create drag on.

if your hand entry (and subsequent extension) is not parallel with the surface of the water then you begin to "show" the water more area in which to create drag...until the pull phase begins.

there has been "others" that purport that allowing your hand to enter at 30-45 degrees (not parallel with water's surface) allows for better body position, but I would rather see my athletes create good body position by pressing the T; which actually CREATES less drag while providing good body position rather than allowing the water to create drag on the top of their arms by entering (and extending) at 30-45 degrees and getting "good" body position that way.

hope this makes sense.

That makes total sense.  I went back and looked the video of you and it shows your arm position very clearly.  I thought if you entered deeper it would help keep your legs up. Your video shows a fairly straight arm parralel to the surface.

entering deeper could/would help you keep your legs up but that's not them best way to effectuate good body position.  Pressing the T is better.