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2011-01-02 6:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Catwoman - 2011-01-02 8:20 AM  The hardest thing has been staying awake past 9 in the evenings. It is almost impossible for me to stay awake after getting up at 4:30 and putting in 2 workouts after working all day. This has been the biggest problem in our marriage in regards to training. My husband likes to stay up late. I recover and have few injuries when I am in the bed at 9. My husband would like for me to sit on the couch (awake) and watch TV with him in the evenings. Once I sit down then I normally fall asleep after a certain time of night. During the weekends I am able to nap so staying up later isn't as much of a problem. Has anyone else had a problem with this? If so then how do you handle it?


I'm a reformed reforming nightowl, but my wife still likes to stay up late.  By the time the kids are in bed, there is just a little bti of time to sit on the couch and then I typically head off to bed while she stays up.  This definetly leaves me feeling guilty so there are a number of evenings I stay up with her - to the detriment of training, but I'm not sure how else to balance it.  She goes to the gym, but she's not into SBR, so there's no real common ground in terms of training.

Short version of what I've said = I don't know.  She supports me, and as a result I don't want to be selfish, which means I find myself putting workouts on the backburner sometimes.  Much as I enjoy SBR, I enjoy a happy wife more...

Edited by GoFaster 2011-01-02 6:04 PM


2011-01-02 6:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Fred Doucette - 2011-01-01 4:58 PM Also wanted to add another question?

Does anyone have any goals they would like to set for 2011?

Can be more than one, can be weight, training or race goals. I'll post mine later


2011 goals:

Gain a bit of weight, yes I said gain.  At 6', 153lbs, I'd like to add some muscle.  I need to start doing some strength training to help with the ITBS, but may also extend that a bit to try and add on a couple of pounds of muscle.  I think some added strength is a nice to have, even if it doesn't translate directly to faster times, plus there is a bit of vanity trying to look a bit better.

Specific SBR goals:

Swim - Get the swim down to a respectable pace.  Working with a semi-private coach for 3 months didn't help much, and I found that I'm basically no faster.  By September, I'd like to see myself capabale of doing a 1:45/100M pace for a 1000M TT.

Bike - increase my Critical Power number from 217 (first test of Jorge's winter bike program) to 282 = 30% increase.  Plan started in October, and I'm looking to achieve this goal by September.  Ideally I'd like to get my CP watts/kg between 3.7-3.9 for the HIM. 

Run - go 1:35 in the HM in May, and perhaps try and crack 20 minutes in the 5K run at a Sprint race in June.  I'd also like to go sub 1:45 on the run at the HIM in September (tough run course though).

Nutrition - clean up my act a little, and eat less junk and fewer processed foods. 
2011-01-02 6:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Nice to see you part of the group Kathy - hope to learn a lot from you.
2011-01-02 7:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Kathy, welcome to the group!
2011-01-02 7:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
It usually hurts Yell
Another fun one is to do a set of 10x50 on the clock, no breathing until after the turn.  I'm usually laid out on a kick board for a bit after those
2011-01-02 7:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Glad to have you in the group, your posts in the other forums have been very helpful to me over the past year!

Edited by StMaas 2011-01-02 7:21 PM


2011-01-02 7:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
StMaas - 2011-01-02 5:21 PM Glad to have you in the group, your posts in the other forums have been very helpful to me over the past year!


Me too Kathy, welcome!
2011-01-02 7:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Yay KathyG!

So, was thinking about the goals bit and all that was put out. I do agree on the hours bit-- I really have no idea how much I will get in, and I know my past years, even not training "hard" this year has been up there--but I'm at a point in life where I can do it because I am single, I my JOB is to be a grad student right now, and yes, that takes time, it should be manageable time and somewhat predictable, unlike when I'm in an actual Army job. I definitely won't basing any goals on hours or mileage, but more so results. I'd like to see an IM PR, which basically means sub-11 since I was right at 11 in '09. We will see how that goes.  And, I really want to get to a race weight of about 130 come IMCdA. It's totally doable for me, I just have to be truly disciplined about it.

Hey, nice plug for Mike Plumb--that's actually who I'm working with right now for this season of tri's.
2011-01-02 8:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Thanks for the link Randy, always nice to have another option to consider for workouts!
2011-01-02 10:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

I have read some of this thread but need some time to read from the beginning to catch up.
2011-01-02 10:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Goal for year.....

I hope this year I stretch myself and grow. Compare myself to others or to my younger, uninjured self less, discover things about myself, grow, be bold, find balance, and find joy for myself and those I touch.  There are bigger more important things than time on clock when you finish a tri, how many miles you put in, zones, watts, paces, ect.


2011-01-03 4:13 AM
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2011-01-03 10:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!

Welcome kathy!  I know you're pretty smart with power, which I'm new to, so I may pick your brain a little bit on that.

My overarching goal this year: sub 5 at Eagleman, but really looking to get closer to 4:45.  Along the way some side goals that sort of fall out of going for that goal include a sub 18:00 5k, an overall podium at a race (got second OA at a small sprint last year, I'd like to do that again, but this time it will be the week after Eagleman), increase my bike CP from 262 W to 300 W by Eagleman, lose 5-7 lbs by my first race and most importantly, get married.  that last one won't really get me sub 5 at Eagleman, but I have to make sure getting sub 5 doesn't affect that goal   happy fiancees are the best fiancees.

2011-01-03 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Has anyone used smart coach plans at Runner's World: http://smartcoach.runnersworld.com/smartcoach/new_plan.jsp ?  If so, thoughts?

I plugged in my info and got a plan for a HM which will end at my first Oly race in April.  I figured HM because I've heard you should be trained to run double the open distance as your tri distance (so trained for a HM for an Oly, marathon for a HIM, 10k for a sprint etc).  Seem reasonable?

It may be a little aggressive considering S/B training as well - It peaks at 50 miles a week (which I've done...once).  It does 3-4 easy runs per week, one long and alternates a speedwork (1600m intervals) and tempo/threshold workout each week.  what I actually really like is that it's based in pace, not HR or RPE.

I know we  had a discussion about pace/HR/RPE training, so i thought it may be something to consider for the "pace" crowd.

Edited by jsiegs 2011-01-03 10:37 AM
2011-01-03 11:24 AM
in reply to: #3256949

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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
phxphotog - 2010-12-31 8:28 PM Couple of things.
What do salt tablets do for you? I hear people talking about them but I've never used them. Are they just an electrolyte replacement?


Todd - the ones I use (hammer edurolytes, I think) are just that. I occasionally have a few quad cramping issues on the bike when really going hard and long, and especially in the heat - these seem to do the trick.

Fred Doucette - 2011-01-01 4:57 PM so 505 hours of SBR in 2010. Lemme see how this compares to other years SBR?

2006: Only have 1/2 year data and just started training for tri's.
2007: 495 hours.
2008: 550 hours.
2009: 482 hours.

Joel Friel suggests that 500-1,000 hours per year is the goal for IM training in a year. I disagree with this quite strongly. Never been a huge hours guy and likely never will ever get even close to 600 hours of SBR.


Hey Fred - believe it or not I have never really looked at anything but weekly totals until I joint BT a few months ago - how crazy is that? The totals that I have easy access to (the rest are trapped on an old PC upstairs in the attic) are:

2006: 422 hours (Marathoning, ultras and adventure racing some tris thrown in for fun)
2007: 408 hours (Marathoning, ultras and adventure racing some tris thrown in for fun)
2008: 283 hours (switched back to tris sprint/olympic only, a few 5k/10k/HMs)
2009: 340 hours (a good competitive year in age group sprint/olympic tris)
2010: 375 hours (maintenance year due to work volume)

I have not looked to closely at 2010, but I imagine it is as high as it is due to getting my act together immediately after signing up for IMLP 5 months ago. Based on my current plan, I would imagine to be maybe around 400 hours between now and the end of July (IMLP), which may mean that I finish with at 417 hours for the whole year

For me, watching weekly run volume ha been really, really important. Back to back to back 45+ mile weeks really makes my legs come apart. I have learned through the years that I can run pretty well by actually running a good bit less.

Fred Doucette - 2011-01-01 4:58 PM Also wanted to add another question?
Does anyone have any goals they would like to set for 2011?


  1. Work on bike pacing.
  2. Take days off (having a coach has already helped with this - when I would train myself, days off always felt like I was shirking my responsibility, for some reason when my coach schedules a rest day, it feels like it is an important part of my training.
  3. Learn to go easier on my easy days, and harder on my hard days.
  4. Get 8 hours of sleep a lot more frequently. I live in the Eastern timezone for 3~4 days per week, and Central for the rest. Trouble is I wake up on Eastern time no matter what but go to sleep on whichever timezone I am in. Makes it really easy to get out the door early when in central, but by the end of the week I sometimes crash. Gotta work on that.
StMaas - 2011-01-01 10:02 PM
I'm switching to HEED and will probably stick with that for the year; that way no surprises, come August!  The big question mark is how to mix it, 1-2 scoops per 16-24 oz leaves a lot of latitude but I figure there's plenty of time to find what works... 


Steve - I really like Heed because it really does not have much flavor to me, but my wife hates it - says it reminds her of baby aspirin. I actually mix one scoop of heed with one scoop of Powerbar Endurance to get a broader spectrum of carb types - I read somewhere years ago that your body could process more carbs across a spectrum than it could from a single type, but who knows if that is true? I have recently been using 2 scoops of heed per large bottle, just to use up my supply. Like you, I am going to try to switch over to what will be on the course come race day - in my case, Powerbar endurance.


2011-01-03 11:26 AM
in reply to: #3271871

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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
slornow - 2011-01-01 10:40 PM

wiky - 2011-01-01 9:29 PM Awesome pic Todd!

X2

Randy


x1000! It is crazy that just at a glance you can imagine what is going through every single persons mind in the picture!


2011-01-03 11:31 AM
in reply to: #3272254

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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
wiky - 2011-01-02 10:34 AM The supplements I take are fish oil, an undenatured whey protein after hard sessions, some extra Vit D in the winter


Exactly the same here, Rene - Rob and I must be reading the same snake fish oil ads!
2011-01-03 11:44 AM
in reply to: #3274093

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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
jsiegs - 2011-01-03 8:27 AM Has anyone used smart coach plans at Runner's World: http://smartcoach.runnersworld.com/smartcoach/new_plan.jsp ?  If so, thoughts?

I plugged in my info and got a plan for a HM which will end at my first Oly race in April.  I figured HM because I've heard you should be trained to run double the open distance as your tri distance (so trained for a HM for an Oly, marathon for a HIM, 10k for a sprint etc).  Seem reasonable?

It may be a little aggressive considering S/B training as well - It peaks at 50 miles a week (which I've done...once).  It does 3-4 easy runs per week, one long and alternates a speedwork (1600m intervals) and tempo/threshold workout each week.  what I actually really like is that it's based in pace, not HR or RPE.

I know we  had a discussion about pace/HR/RPE training, so i thought it may be something to consider for the "pace" crowd.


I have used it a couple times.  Saw good results.  I agree it is a little aggressive if you don't already train at a higher volume, but you can tweak it to meet your needs/schedule.
2011-01-03 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
So far I only have one goal this year, IM Austria.
The primary goal is to finish, but a close second is to do it sub 12.

I just checked my log, and i trained 304 hours last year.
Started the second week in january with running, biking started late february and swimming started in april.

I got my first tri bike in the middle of may, and have ridden it for a little over 3000 km until now.

I think some of you are putting in some inpressive hours.
2011-01-03 11:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Fred Doucette - 2011-01-02 6:05 PM
StMaas - 2011-01-02 6:02 PMI usually do this ratcheting up each lap as Fred described, but mainly bilateral breathing, or on a pyramid count.  So either 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc or 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 9, 11, 7, 5, 3, for whatever the chosen distance of the drill is.  I've found that sticking to bilateral forces me to keep focusing on stroke quality on my weak side (right) during the higher number laps, and keep an even cadence as well.
. Wow, you breath every 11th stroke for a 50 yard set? I'm feeling pretty sheepish about my breath every 6th stroke lol.


OUCH! exactly what I thought when I read that  - all of my workouts are different, but it seems that once a week I have to do something like 3~5 x 50 breathing every 2, 50 breathing every 3, 50 breathing every 5, then finally 50 breathing every 7. Easy pace, but no recovery between each 50, 20 sec recovery between each 200. The 7 kills, but it sure makes the 3 feel luxurious. Last week I swam an easy pace 3500 straight through, bilateral and holding good form all the way. That is a first for me in 20 years!
2011-01-03 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
jcb123 - 2011-01-03 12:49 PM So far I only have one goal this year, IM Austria.
The primary goal is to finish, but a close second is to do it sub 12.

I just checked my log, and i trained 304 hours last year.
Started the second week in january with running, biking started late february and swimming started in april.

I got my first tri bike in the middle of may, and have ridden it for a little over 3000 km until now.

I think some of you are putting in some inpressive hours.


Jacob - those are impressive numbers yourself. 3000k on the bike since May is rock solid.


2011-01-03 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
Wow, great to have you as part of the group Kathy!
2011-01-03 12:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
KathyG - 2011-01-02 6:26 PM Fred allowed me to join this group a bit late. I've known Fred since we both decided in '07 to sign up for our first IM...at Lake Placid in '08. So I figured I'd introduce myself.

STORY:
I was a overweight mom to 5 for to many years. I did my first tri  in 2004 to prove I had changed my life after losing a significant amount of weight about 62 pounds in the first year and now hovering in the 90-97 pound range. Over time my passion for this sport has grown as well as my desire to try and do new things. Last 3 years my focus has been Ironman racing as I've done IMLP, IM Canada and IMFL.

I feel I'm a bit of a grinder. I train consistently but haven't made much progress over last few years. One of the big struggles I face at times is frustration with lack of progress despite consistent well thought out training.

FAMILY STATUS: Married. with 5 kids, 21, 21, 16, 15, and 12; My husband Kevin does sprints/olys but mainly likes running and Crossfit. Our 16 year old Emily does tris and hopes to do her first Oly this summer.

CURRENT TRAINING: Right now I have a flair up of pes anserine tendinitis/bursitis and waiting to go see a PT 1/5 so running has been as tolerated and not much plus I've been in Minnesota away from my bike for the holidays to visit my parents who have some major medical issues.

I have worked with a coach since 2005 for tris as I like structure and someone to see the big picture as I prefer to do the workouts and not have to decide what to do or how to move things around if need be. I will start up again with my coach who I used last year sometime in January after a break from structure post IMFL. I typically swim 4x a week, run 4-5x a week hoping to get that up to 6x a week if I can get healthy, and bike 3-4x a week with training about 8-11 hours a week this time of year. My biggest week week I did 28 hours.

I train with power and have since 2006 so am pretty familiar with wko+, and power. I had power tap wheels both a training wheel and Zipps but changed over to Quarq when I got my Ordu in May. I also have a computrainer I use indoors but mostly use it in erg mode which controls my watts.

THIS YEAR's RACES: I did Lonestar 70.3 in April and it was my only healthy race of the year. Big race was IMFL and I did an IM aquavelo at Chesapeake in September.

I contracted Lyme's Disease in March/April from getting ticks riding my tri bike on the road. It effected both my knees as both swelled up. I ended up tearing my left lateral meniscus and had to get my knee scoped in June...had both meniscus trimmed, plika removed, snovial tissue removed and my patella smoothed out. My knee still is giving me problems but much improved from surgery. It's been suggested my run gait has changed and so post scope my run pace is still off where it was and my FTP (power) on bike is still lower which is a bit frustrating 7 months later.

2011 RACES: Hyannis 1/2 Mary February, Patriot HIM June,  with my main focus on two Ironman races in 2011....IMLP 7/24, IMFL 11/5. My plan is to do my 5th Ironman race to celebrate turning 50 with IMFL being day after my birthday.

I will probably do a couple of other tris but most I will wait and register if training goes well and I can get and stay injury free.

WEIGHT LOSS History/GOALS: Since April 21, 2003 I have lost about 90-97 pounds. Last two years my weight has been pretty stable other than post first two IMs blip up and down. I'd like to drop down and get to about 105 pound total loss and weigh maybe 10 pounds less than I did at my last IMLP. 

I'm a stress eater and struggle at times. For me consistent training makes me feel better, I'm happier and keeps my weight in check easier. I have changed the way I eat almost completely since before 2003. I try to avoid processed food, white food like sugar, bread, flour, rice, potatoes and all fried food and eat unprocessed natural food. For me it's a way of life but always a bit of a challenge.

WHAT WOULD MAKE ME A GOOD MENTEE: I've been on BT since 2004, post a lot, don't work so have more free time than most, have had 2 mentor groups, I train consistently and love tris and the unique community of BT.


Hi Kathy - Fantastic you can join us. You, Fred, and all the rest of the BTr's that participated IMLP thread last last year really got me excited about the race. As others have commented, I too am really appreciative of all the knowledge and support folks like you (and Fred!) contribute here. Just awesome!
2011-01-03 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
KathyG - 2011-01-02 11:47 PM
There are bigger more important things than time on clock when you finish a tri, how many miles you put in, zones, watts, paces, ect.


No doubt about that.  The longer I do this triathlon training/racing thing, the more it's just becoming a part of my life.  So, while I have specific triathlon goals that I will try to reach, meeting/missing them isn't really that important to me personally in a big picture sense. 

At this point, I feel like the goals help organize the training, which is the real thing that I enjoy and the reason I'm doing this.  In contrast, when I started triathlon 2.5 yrs ago, it was important to finish an IM, hit certain times, etc.  The purpose of the training was to do those things.  Now it feels like it's the other way around - the reason for trying to do those things is to give a fun structure to the training.  Maybe that just means that I'm getting older.
2011-01-03 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!
TankBoy - 2011-01-03 12:24 PM
Steve - I really like Heed because it really does not have much flavor to me, but my wife hates it - says it reminds her of baby aspirin.


x2 on the taste of that stuff.  

Like Fred, I live off the course for races.  Fortunately, none of the longer races I've done have used HEED! 
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