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n + 1 swim challenge (Page 15)
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 2014-04-02 8:41 AM in reply to: switch |
Regular  127   Ankeny |  Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challengeIt's Wednesday and I'm just getting swim one in. Lucky for me I have the next four days off to get the other two in. Here's today's set: 150 Warm-up 6x50 Drill/Build 4x75 on 1:40 1x500 on 9:30 (completed in 9:03) 2x250 2x100 under 1:50 (1:35, 1:45) 1950 Total A couple of things to note for today. First there were two new people in my Master's class. One of the new guys was paired in my lane and we are about the same skill level. He really pushed me on the 500 today I don't think I've ever had a 9:00 500, so I feel really good about that. Second, I can definitely tell I'm pulling more water with each stroke. I'm feeling it better and really getting (what I think is) a good pull. I feel good about that as well. Have a great day, friends! |
| 2014-04-02 8:44 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by switch 1:11 on a kick set? Daaaaaamn. The whole set looks tough. Two questions: What's the trick to turning with fins--how do you push off the wall? When you pull, do you mean pull with paddles and a PB or just a PB? Someone wrote in a thread the other day that real swimmers only do paddles and PB, but I've seen ours (both high school and college) do both. I was wondering if maybe that was a program specific thing?
1:11 with fins - can't even get in the same timezone without them. Under 2:00 without would be good for me. Since I was kicking on my back with no board, I just did flip turns which makes it a lot easier. If I'm using a board then as I approach the wall, I do one pull with the board using my left arm which rotates me onto my right side while I reach for the wall with my right arm. As I grab the wall I bring my feet under me to the wall heels first (which means the fins don't catch on water) and then push off. When I say pull, I mean just using a pullbuoy. I will specifically write pull w/ paddles if that's what I use. I was tempted to respond to that guy in the thread saying he was wrong but wasn't in the mood to pick a fight at the time. Nice job, Arend! Especially tough with all that shoveling. I've had the same understanding with pulling and paddle use. Usually a little leery with people using terms like "real" as they tend to huff & puff a bit. |
| 2014-04-02 8:55 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge 2700 at Masters last night. Bit of an easier set as coach is having people taper in for the upcoming state and nationals meet. For the group I was with it was descending 100's, some descending 50's, and a few fast 25's. Send-off was normal for the others, generous for me. Except the 25's was big for all of us. Came very close to seeing a :13 on one of those. Clock changed just before I touched the wall.Feeling stroke change some here. Definitely kicking more has helped, but also something is different in the arms. Getting a better turn-over going which coach should like seeing. Then some easy paced 300's. I'm over with this group as the people I usually swim with are focused more on nats even though most are going to state as well. |
| 2014-04-02 9:25 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Elite 7783  PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by brigby1 2700 at Masters last night. Bit of an easier set as coach is having people taper in for the upcoming state and nationals meet. For the group I was with it was descending 100's, some descending 50's, and a few fast 25's. Send-off was normal for the others, generous for me. Except the 25's was big for all of us. Came very close to seeing a :13 on one of those. Clock changed just before I touched the wall.Feeling stroke change some here. Definitely kicking more has helped, but also something is different in the arms. Getting a better turn-over going which coach should like seeing. Then some easy paced 300's. I'm over with this group as the people I usually swim with are focused more on nats even though most are going to state as well. So you are right on the edge of going under an hour in an IM swim then according to this post on ST. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4974485 Do you think that's an accurate benchmark based on what you know about the rest of your swimming abilities? I'd personally consider it a pretty loose benchmark. |
| 2014-04-02 10:22 AM in reply to: axteraa |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by brigby1 2700 at Masters last night. Bit of an easier set as coach is having people taper in for the upcoming state and nationals meet. For the group I was with it was descending 100's, some descending 50's, and a few fast 25's. Send-off was normal for the others, generous for me. Except the 25's was big for all of us. Came very close to seeing a :13 on one of those. Clock changed just before I touched the wall.Feeling stroke change some here. Definitely kicking more has helped, but also something is different in the arms. Getting a better turn-over going which coach should like seeing. Then some easy paced 300's. I'm over with this group as the people I usually swim with are focused more on nats even though most are going to state as well. So you are right on the edge of going under an hour in an IM swim then according to this post on ST. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4974485 Do you think that's an accurate benchmark based on what you know about the rest of your swimming abilities? I'd personally consider it a pretty loose benchmark. I remember this one! I started seeing a :14 on occasion a little while back, and it was also around the same time going for 1 hr seemed possible based on some other longer work. Like that 2.5k open water late last summer. I could have continued on to do it there, but would have been a bit hard if actually in an IM. So it does seem like a helpful benchmark so long as one remembers that it's part of a speed profile. Like a Daniels or McMillan race estimate. Or maybe more so like Shane and Marc have you guys working with a power curve based off several points as those run predictors only have one particular profile. The power curve adapts to a couple test points instead of having a preset and expecting one to do work to match the pre-existing profile. |
| 2014-04-02 3:23 PM in reply to: 0 |
Regular 127 Ankeny | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by MikeyP4 The stars aligned for me today, and I seized the opportunity to get in an n+2 swim! After receiving the tips from my friend on Thursday night, I was anxious to get back into the pool to work on my form. The purpose of my swim today was to work on improving my form (taking a full stroke instead of stopping at my waist) and pacing. 200 w/u 100 k 4 x 100 @ 2:00 4 x 75 @ 1:30 4 x 50 @ 1:00 4 x 25 @ 30 4 x 50 @ 1:00 4 x 75 @ 1:30 4 x 100 @ 2:00 250 c/d Total: 2450 yds During my w/u and c/d I made sure to feel my thumbs brush against my thighs to complete a full stroke. I also tried to focus on that during my main set. I definitely felt a difference in my stroke just by making this change. As far as pacing, I went out way too fast (~1:35) on the first two 100s of the main set. I was able to hang on for the rest of the 100s, but suffered through the 75s even though my pace got under control by that point. Once I settled into my pace the rest of the set was pretty good. My last 4 100s were very consistent (between 1:42 and 1:44) which I was pretty happy about. Mikey, I'm going to tackle this one tomorrow. How much rest did you take sets? Edited by BigN321 2014-04-02 3:49 PM |
| 2014-04-02 8:18 PM in reply to: BigN321 |
Member 119 Ledyard, CT | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by BigN321 Originally posted by MikeyP4 The stars aligned for me today, and I seized the opportunity to get in an n+2 swim! After receiving the tips from my friend on Thursday night, I was anxious to get back into the pool to work on my form. The purpose of my swim today was to work on improving my form (taking a full stroke instead of stopping at my waist) and pacing. 200 w/u 100 k 4 x 100 @ 2:00 4 x 75 @ 1:30 4 x 50 @ 1:00 4 x 25 @ 30 4 x 50 @ 1:00 4 x 75 @ 1:30 4 x 100 @ 2:00 250 c/d Total: 2450 yds During my w/u and c/d I made sure to feel my thumbs brush against my thighs to complete a full stroke. I also tried to focus on that during my main set. I definitely felt a difference in my stroke just by making this change. As far as pacing, I went out way too fast (~1:35) on the first two 100s of the main set. I was able to hang on for the rest of the 100s, but suffered through the 75s even though my pace got under control by that point. Once I settled into my pace the rest of the set was pretty good. My last 4 100s were very consistent (between 1:42 and 1:44) which I was pretty happy about. Mikey, I'm going to tackle this one tomorrow. How much rest did you take sets? It was my intent to just continue to follow the send-off time from the set I just finished. In other words, on the fourth 100 of the first set, I came in at a out 1:40 so I would have had :20 to rest before going out on the first 75....again, that was my intention. As I've mentioned, I'm still trying to get my pacing under control so I needed some extra time to rest between sets. That said, I wouldn't rest more than :45 between sets. I hope this helps... Good luck, I can't wait to hear how it went. |
| 2014-04-02 8:29 PM in reply to: switch |
Member 119 Ledyard, CT | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Got my 'n' swim in tonight. I didn't go to the pool with much of a plan, aside from wanting to work on my pacing. As a result, my workout doesn't look like it has much focus. I made a deliberate effort to swim slowly and to "learn" what a good pace feels like. I didn't plan to do these on any particular send-off time, but I wound up doing the 100s on 2:00 and the 50s on 1:00. 200 wu 100 k 100 p 4x100 5x50 4 x 100 400 100 cd Total 1950 Aside from the fact that I hate going to the pool without a workout planned, I think that tonight's swim went well. I went out too fast, again, on the first 100, but settled into a manageable pace much quicker than on Sunday. |
| 2014-04-03 8:37 AM in reply to: MikeyP4 |
Extreme Veteran 2263 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Time for another Macca set! He calls this one "loose ends" and is for building back end speed. The idea is you start with a lot of equipment and take it away as you move into the set, giving you that "loose end" feeling. 2x200 WU 200m kick 4 x 200 (10-15 sec rest interval)
3 x 100 (10-15 sec rest interval)
8 x 50 (20 secs rest)
200 CD 2300m total
Normally I do this main set twice through, which is TOUGH, but I did it just once through due to my race this weekend. |
| 2014-04-03 12:24 PM in reply to: msteiner |
Expert 4929 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by msteiner Time for another Macca set! He calls this one "loose ends" and is for building back end speed. The idea is you start with a lot of equipment and take it away as you move into the set, giving you that "loose end" feeling. 2x200 WU 200m kick 4 x 200 (10-15 sec rest interval)
3 x 100 (10-15 sec rest interval)
8 x 50 (20 secs rest)
200 CD 2300m total
Normally I do this main set twice through, which is TOUGH, but I did it just once through due to my race this weekend. That looks like a fun set...twice through sounds painful. The paddles, no buoy, faster than Oly pace sounds pretty hard. I guess it depends on what type of paddles you have, too. Mine look like tennis rackets. |
| 2014-04-03 2:43 PM in reply to: BigN321 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by BigN321 It's Wednesday and I'm just getting swim one in. Lucky for me I have the next four days off to get the other two in. Here's today's set: 150 Warm-up 6x50 Drill/Build 4x75 on 1:40 1x500 on 9:30 (completed in 9:03) 2x250 2x100 under 1:50 (1:35, 1:45) 1950 Total A couple of things to note for today. First there were two new people in my Master's class. One of the new guys was paired in my lane and we are about the same skill level. He really pushed me on the 500 today I don't think I've ever had a 9:00 500, so I feel really good about that. Second, I can definitely tell I'm pulling more water with each stroke. I'm feeling it better and really getting (what I think is) a good pull. I feel good about that as well. Have a great day, friends! This is great! Congratulations! |
| 2014-04-03 2:46 PM in reply to: MikeyP4 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by MikeyP4 Got my 'n' swim in tonight. I didn't go to the pool with much of a plan, aside from wanting to work on my pacing. As a result, my workout doesn't look like it has much focus. I made a deliberate effort to swim slowly and to "learn" what a good pace feels like. I didn't plan to do these on any particular send-off time, but I wound up doing the 100s on 2:00 and the 50s on 1:00. 200 wu 100 k 100 p 4x100 5x50 4 x 100 400 100 cd Total 1950 Aside from the fact that I hate going to the pool without a workout planned, I think that tonight's swim went well. I went out too fast, again, on the first 100, but settled into a manageable pace much quicker than on Sunday. That's a pretty quick settle. I'm almost always too fast for my first whatever the first number of laps is I do. Settling it down after only 100 is great :)
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| 2014-04-03 2:50 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Yeah, twice? Oy!Originally posted by msteiner Time for another Macca set! He calls this one "loose ends" and is for building back end speed. The idea is you start with a lot of equipment and take it away as you move into the set, giving you that "loose end" feeling. 2x200 WU 200m kick 4 x 200 (10-15 sec rest interval)
3 x 100 (10-15 sec rest interval)
8 x 50 (20 secs rest)
200 CD 2300m total
Normally I do this main set twice through, which is TOUGH, but I did it just once through due to my race this weekend. That looks like a fun set...twice through sounds painful. The paddles, no buoy, faster than Oly pace sounds pretty hard. I guess it depends on what type of paddles you have, too. Mine look like tennis rackets. I think the hard part for me with the toys is turning fast enough to keep my pace relevant. With paddles or fins I look like Austin Powers trying to turn a cart. |
| 2014-04-03 2:52 PM in reply to: switch |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge |
| 2014-04-03 2:57 PM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 2263 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by switch Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Yeah, twice? Oy!Originally posted by msteiner Time for another Macca set! He calls this one "loose ends" and is for building back end speed. The idea is you start with a lot of equipment and take it away as you move into the set, giving you that "loose end" feeling. 2x200 WU 200m kick 4 x 200 (10-15 sec rest interval)
3 x 100 (10-15 sec rest interval)
8 x 50 (20 secs rest)
200 CD 2300m total
Normally I do this main set twice through, which is TOUGH, but I did it just once through due to my race this weekend. That looks like a fun set...twice through sounds painful. The paddles, no buoy, faster than Oly pace sounds pretty hard. I guess it depends on what type of paddles you have, too. Mine look like tennis rackets. I think the hard part for me with the toys is turning fast enough to keep my pace relevant. With paddles or fins I look like Austin Powers trying to turn a cart. I'm open turning for all my main set work lately, so it's not so bad for me. |
| 2014-04-03 3:01 PM in reply to: switch |
Member 119 Ledyard, CT | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by switch Originally posted by MikeyP4 Got my 'n' swim in tonight. I didn't go to the pool with much of a plan, aside from wanting to work on my pacing. As a result, my workout doesn't look like it has much focus. I made a deliberate effort to swim slowly and to "learn" what a good pace feels like. I didn't plan to do these on any particular send-off time, but I wound up doing the 100s on 2:00 and the 50s on 1:00. 200 wu 100 k 100 p 4x100 5x50 4 x 100 400 100 cd Total 1950 Aside from the fact that I hate going to the pool without a workout planned, I think that tonight's swim went well. I went out too fast, again, on the first 100, but settled into a manageable pace much quicker than on Sunday. That's a pretty quick settle. I'm almost always too fast for my first whatever the first number of laps is I do. Settling it down after only 100 is great
To be clear, my pace on the second wasn't perfect but it was certainly better than the first, much more manageable (and, more importantly, sustainable). Once I got in the water I just kept repeating to myself what brigby said the other day: If you're not used to doing it, the first ones will often feel ridiculously easy. Seriously. Yesterday, for me, was all about feel. I wanted to be able to feel that easy pace and know how to execute it. I'm headed back to the pool tonight to continue more pacing work. ...that reminds me, I'd better come up with a workout to do. Suggestions anyone??  |
| 2014-04-03 3:12 PM in reply to: switch |
Expert 4929 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by switch
Week 3, 3/7, 2500 yds Shoulder feel OK during it? That's a really solid swim workout. |
| 2014-04-03 3:31 PM in reply to: MikeyP4 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by MikeyP4 Originally posted by switch To be clear, my pace on the second wasn't perfect but it was certainly better than the first, much more manageable (and, more importantly, sustainable). Once I got in the water I just kept repeating to myself what brigby said the other day: Originally posted by MikeyP4 Got my 'n' swim in tonight. I didn't go to the pool with much of a plan, aside from wanting to work on my pacing. As a result, my workout doesn't look like it has much focus. I made a deliberate effort to swim slowly and to "learn" what a good pace feels like. I didn't plan to do these on any particular send-off time, but I wound up doing the 100s on 2:00 and the 50s on 1:00. 200 wu 100 k 100 p 4x100 5x50 4 x 100 400 100 cd Total 1950 Aside from the fact that I hate going to the pool without a workout planned, I think that tonight's swim went well. I went out too fast, again, on the first 100, but settled into a manageable pace much quicker than on Sunday. That's a pretty quick settle. I'm almost always too fast for my first whatever the first number of laps is I do. Settling it down after only 100 is great :)
If you're not used to doing it, the first ones will often feel ridiculously easy. Seriously. Yesterday, for me, was all about feel. I wanted to be able to feel that easy pace and know how to execute it. I'm headed back to the pool tonight to continue more pacing work. ...that reminds me, I'd better come up with a workout to do. Suggestions anyone?? :) 50 50s??? :) Very good for pacing!
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| 2014-04-03 3:36 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Thanks Mike! Yes, it really does feel OK, it just looks terrible :/ Originally posted by switch
Shoulder feel OK during it? That's a really solid swim workout. I'm still trying to be conservative and not do anything "all out". I think I'm also going to stay with sets 2500 and under for at least another week. My husband has also said he's going to rescue my bike and trainer from the farm house next week, so I'll finally get a bit of green back in my bars. Thanks for the push on that Mike :) |
| 2014-04-03 3:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
Member 119 Ledyard, CT | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by switch Originally posted by MikeyP4 Originally posted by switch To be clear, my pace on the second wasn't perfect but it was certainly better than the first, much more manageable (and, more importantly, sustainable). Once I got in the water I just kept repeating to myself what brigby said the other day: Originally posted by MikeyP4 Got my 'n' swim in tonight. I didn't go to the pool with much of a plan, aside from wanting to work on my pacing. As a result, my workout doesn't look like it has much focus. I made a deliberate effort to swim slowly and to "learn" what a good pace feels like. I didn't plan to do these on any particular send-off time, but I wound up doing the 100s on 2:00 and the 50s on 1:00. 200 wu 100 k 100 p 4x100 5x50 4 x 100 400 100 cd Total 1950 Aside from the fact that I hate going to the pool without a workout planned, I think that tonight's swim went well. I went out too fast, again, on the first 100, but settled into a manageable pace much quicker than on Sunday. That's a pretty quick settle. I'm almost always too fast for my first whatever the first number of laps is I do. Settling it down after only 100 is great
If you're not used to doing it, the first ones will often feel ridiculously easy. Seriously. Yesterday, for me, was all about feel. I wanted to be able to feel that easy pace and know how to execute it. I'm headed back to the pool tonight to continue more pacing work. ...that reminds me, I'd better come up with a workout to do. Suggestions anyone?? 50 50s??? Very good for pacing!
50 50s....well I was thinking about doing a bunch of 50s, and 50 certainly is a bunch. I'm not sure that I'll have the time to get all 50 in, but I'll give it a go. Would you do that as one long set or break it up as 5 sets of 10 or something like that? Is there any benefit or detriment to either? ETA: I spoke too soon...I should have time to get this in...maybe just over an hour to complete it. My question about breaking it up remains though... Edited by MikeyP4 2014-04-03 4:01 PM |
| 2014-04-03 4:05 PM in reply to: MikeyP4 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by MikeyP4 Originally posted by switch 50 50s....well I was thinking about doing a bunch of 50s, and 50 certainly is a bunch. I'm not sure that I'll have the time to get all 50 in, but I'll give it a go. Would you do that as one long set or break it up as 5 sets of 10 or something like that? Is there any benefit or detriment to either? ETA: I spoke too soon...I should have time to get this in...maybe just over an hour to complete it. My question about breaking it up remains though... Originally posted by MikeyP4 Originally posted by switch To be clear, my pace on the second wasn't perfect but it was certainly better than the first, much more manageable (and, more importantly, sustainable). Once I got in the water I just kept repeating to myself what brigby said the other day: Originally posted by MikeyP4 Got my 'n' swim in tonight. I didn't go to the pool with much of a plan, aside from wanting to work on my pacing. As a result, my workout doesn't look like it has much focus. I made a deliberate effort to swim slowly and to "learn" what a good pace feels like. I didn't plan to do these on any particular send-off time, but I wound up doing the 100s on 2:00 and the 50s on 1:00. 200 wu 100 k 100 p 4x100 5x50 4 x 100 400 100 cd Total 1950 Aside from the fact that I hate going to the pool without a workout planned, I think that tonight's swim went well. I went out too fast, again, on the first 100, but settled into a manageable pace much quicker than on Sunday. That's a pretty quick settle. I'm almost always too fast for my first whatever the first number of laps is I do. Settling it down after only 100 is great :)
If you're not used to doing it, the first ones will often feel ridiculously easy. Seriously. Yesterday, for me, was all about feel. I wanted to be able to feel that easy pace and know how to execute it. I'm headed back to the pool tonight to continue more pacing work. ...that reminds me, I'd better come up with a workout to do. Suggestions anyone?? :) 50 50s??? :) Very good for pacing!
Both ways could have benefit. You could also do a hybrid--something like 20 straight through and then break down the last thirty into sets of 5 or 10. |
| 2014-04-03 4:05 PM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 2263 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by switch My husband has also said he's going to rescue my bike and trainer from the farm house next week, so I'll finally get a bit of green back in my bars. Thanks for the push on that Mike Good stuff! |
| 2014-04-03 4:10 PM in reply to: MikeyP4 |
Pro 6520 Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge I would be like "ahh, was that 47 or 48?". Solid work everyone. My cold has gotten worse so I'm staying out of the pool this week. I've got to get better before a race Saturday. {fingers crossed} |
| 2014-04-03 4:55 PM in reply to: msteiner |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by msteiner Is it weird that I'm a little nervous? :)Originally posted by switch My husband has also said he's going to rescue my bike and trainer from the farm house next week, so I'll finally get a bit of green back in my bars. Thanks for the push on that Mike :) Good stuff! |
| 2014-04-03 4:56 PM in reply to: popsracer |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: n + 1 swim challenge Originally posted by popsracer That's why going on the 1 is so awesome! Well, that and a 910xt :)I would be like "ahh, was that 47 or 48?". Solid work everyone. My cold has gotten worse so I'm staying out of the pool this week. I've got to get better before a race Saturday. {fingers crossed} I'm pulling for a healthy Steve this weekend. Why does a sickness always desend during taper?! It happens to me almost every time. |
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