swbkrun with us!!! - Closed (Page 151)

Linda, sorry you had a tough day today.  Hate tummy issues pre-run...as you all know, I have no secrets from the MG.  Hope tonite's dinner is enjoyable.  Can't wait for Suzy's Wednesday question of the week.  

I am entering my "look out!" don't step on a pet toy in the dark, run into a gigantic mirror sticking off of an old beat up truck while jogging with the dog, omg, did that ceramic bowl just fall off the shelf onto the shoulder I bruised yesterday while running into that gigantic mirror sticking off that old beat up truck, look both ways before crossing the street and a car comes screeching round the corner and scares me half to death, while I drop my Peasant Pies into the intersection!  Luckily they were not crushed and still edible, because I was ravenous!  I am accident prone, but much moreso 26.2 days out from my marathon!!!!  (and maybe a little manic because this is a step back week)

Sorry, just needed to vent a little bit about my crazy day, too.  

Terrific swimming, Trev!!!!  That is really awesome! (the swimming and the dry heave).  wet heave not so much.  

Poor you!! Bad mommy days are the WORST!!! Skip dinner. Drink wine (or beer) and then head straight for dessert. Hugs!

I ran an easy 3.3miles earlier today and will probably ride tomorrow before I go back to work the next day and that depends on the wind really not in the mood if I can't keep it easy.

Hey Peeps.....can you believe it's Wednesday already????  With all the RR's to read, time flies....so who's racing this weekend? care to share the secret to your impending success?

I have had a PM request and a request from Linda for a little conversation about nutrtion.  Given it's such a complicated topic, lets break it into a couple of issues (answer what you can, debate it, skip what you're clueless on and getting ready to learn!):

1. How do you handle racing? pre race? during the bike? during the run? what's worked well? what have you found not to to work so well?  what do you do when you get in trouble (GI issues, cramping, etc) And tell us the distance you are referring to since it can vary by length.

2. How do you handle pre-work eating especially when it isn't in the morning?

Poor you!! Bad mommy days are the WORST!!! Skip dinner. Drink wine (or beer) and then head straight for dessert. Hugs!

No racing.  My first planned race is a 10 mile run on 4/29.  It is in a town about 40 miles from the nuke plant that having problems.  I am not changing my training plans and expecting they will go ahead.  I did 13 km today - my longest run in over 10 years.  I felt good at the end and probably could have cranked out a couple more kms.

My racing experience to date has been 4 Olys.  My breakfast is usually something like this:  12 oz yogurt drink, a banana, 2 cups of coffee, a couple pieces of sweet bread (imagine the bread in a danish - that level of sweetness; I'm sure it is a Japan unique product).  I tried taking a gel 15 minutes before the swim and didn't like how my stomach felt.   For my last Oly I ate a small bag of the equivalent of gummy bears (really just sugar) and that seemed to work really well.  On the bike I carried a 7 oz bottle that was a blend of 2 powergels and water.  I also had 20 oz of sports drink.   I drank about half of the powergel/water blend 10 minutes into the bike and the other half about 15 minutes away from T2.  I drank some of the sports drink about every 15 minutes on the bike.    On the run I tried to take in a little water at every other aid station (every 3km).  I've tried sports drink on the run, but it does not sit well - it is not that I get nauseous, but I find myself belching a lot.     The only time I got in trouble was at the end of my first Oly and I blame that on not getting much nutrition in on the bike - my stomach was just really tight from hyperventilating on the swim.  No real problems on the three Olys I did last year.

Pre-workout eating: no problems for me.  I will not start exercise until 1 hour after breakfast or lunch.  If my workout is in the middle of the morning or middle of the afternoon, I usually snack on some nuts and don't start my exercise until 20-30 minutes after that.  I've really never had any problems with pre-workout eating.

I love this, gave me a morning chuckle before heading out to work : )

I love this, gave me a morning chuckle before heading out to work : )

No racing me for this weekend.  :-)  But I wanted to give a great big shout out to all of my MG peeps!  Thanks for all the love and support.  Everyone here helps celebrate the successes and we dust each other off when we fall down.  It really makes tackling the next challenge that much easier. 

My first road race is this weekend, 30 miles, doing the Cat 5 40+ race.

Getting a bit nervous, temps are now predicted in the 40's with rain. One big hill per 10 mile lap.  I have a plan so hopefully I can make it stick. 

LOL, goal 1 is to keep the rubber side down, goal 2 is to try to stay with the main group the entire race, goal 3 is not to get pulled for being lapped.

I want to be near the front of the group when we hit the base of the hill, that gives me the entire hill to sift to the back, vs. being on the back at the bottom of the hill then I need to work harder to catch back up.

As far as nutrition. 

My pre-race meal is usually very neutral type foods, oatmeal, toast with PB, bananna, water, don't want anything in my stomach that could cause issues.

I normally take a gel right before the swim, regadless of what I had for breakfast.  For racing nutrition Oly and less I just bring water on the bike, HIM I used Infinit.

On the run depending on the distance I try to take a gu every 45 mins, that also goes for stand alone running races over 10k.

I have been pretty lucky and not had many issues with nutrition during races (knock on wood)

Fixed that for ya!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF3vHjnXCe8

HA, I wish, I am pretty much BOP in the BOP class of bike racing, hoping to one day achieve MOP in the BOP ...

Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.

Great idea on nutrition, Suzy!!   I'm not racing this weekend - good thing with this weather!

Most of my workouts are in the morning, and my standard diet of pepsi and a poptart seems to work.  If I'm going to be running more than an hour, I carry a couple of gels.  If I'm going to be riding more than 1.5 hours, or running more than 2, I mix up a pretty thick bottle of sustained energy.  I don't do so well with solids while I train.  I definitely fight tummy issues anyway, and I really need to clean up my act.  The poptart/pepsi routine also means I have to eat before my kids get up - good example and all that.

Where I really get into trouble, obviously, is my later in the day workouts.  Not good at 'eating for the training' part of it.

I'm pretty good with the recovery stuff.  Make myself a smoothy with berries, advocare chocolate recovery/protein powder, banana, OJ and an egg.  Yummy!!!

COLD! Or is that a DC term for expendable domestique?

No racing for me either!! Phooey....one of these days.

I feel like I've done a decent job figuring out how to fuel for IM so I hope to test out a scaled down version for HIMs which have been less successful to date.  On the bike, I think what gave me an edge nutritionally was1) really understanding the # of calories I needed to take in each hour and sticking to that plan. Like Kim, my watch beeps every 10' signaling the need for a sip of concentrated sustained energy/gel mix and 2 sips of H20, 2) the right amount of water to compliment those calories, 3) the knowledge that taking in solids on the bike was a mistake for me and 4) discovering the need for excess salt supplementation since my beverage contains very little.  It was trial and error during training, but it was those experiences that allowed me to dial things in.  I would also say I discovered that too much protein in my bike beverage led to bloating and all that comes with it   For the run, it is carb-pro which is all malodextrin and very easy to digest supplemented with salt stick caps.  Again, solids for me (including beans, bears and the like) are a huge mistake.  I did all 13:39 on liquids.  It worked like a charm with the caveat under the days conditions--great temps--80s, low winds and very little humidity. 

Where I really am struggling a bit is what to eat during the day when a tough workout is coming.  I don't seem to have an issue in the pool (for obvious reasons!), but the run and the bike cause me more concern.  My normal daily diet is a ton of vegetables and fruit....put that in me before a B or R and not so pretty.....so keep the ideas flowing.....to date I am eating bland things that I don't consider as nutritionally ideal--half english muffin with an egg, etc....

Sam is better to discuss the food we eat than I am but I feel that I am pretty well fueled for all my workouts done during the day.  Pretty much regardless of the workouts planned for the day, here is my day in food.

Current weight 158, try to get in 10ish hrs of workouts a week. (also trying to get to a steady 155 weight also)

7am Breakfast: Big bowl of oatmeal with brown sugar, walnuts, flax seed, frozen fruit (usually some sort of mix of blue, ras, black, strawberries) and a couple cups of coffee

10am: some sort of bar, powerbar, cliff bar, etc

noon: Lunch, this is probably my worst planned meal, normally its some sort of healthyish frozen lunch

3pm: some sort of snack, try for fruit, yogurt, mixed nuts, etc.

5pm: Dinner, 99% of the time, some super healthy but fueling meal, Sam can better explain.

8pm - 10pm: I tend to need some sort of thing whether it's cereal or something to get me through until the next day, I probably need to cut this out but it's tough as I tend to be hungry when I get done with my evening workout.

Thats "DC" talk for " Hey make me a sandwich!!"

Let's see... those who were around here last year know that my IM nutrition didn't work out as planned -- Infinit on the bike, concentrated, watch beeped every 15 minutes, 1-2 sips of concentrate plus a few swigs of plain water. My Infinit mix is mostly/all maltodexterin, and I read a very interesting article recently that talked about heat, race stress, and nutrition. Said article suggested that malto is harder to absorb under stressed conditions and consider switching to dextrose for the sugar source for easier absorption. I think I had too many calories for the heat (not hot compared to some of your conditions, but first day I had done a ride where it was more than about 65 degrees, and it was high 80's), and potentially the wrong source of sugar. Plan to test dextrose when/if we get some warm weather this spring. (One can hope!!) After my tummy emptied, I did the run on coke and was fine with that. Training-wise, I don't take any nutrition for runs less than 2 hours. Over two hours, I may take a few chomps but I don't have a system in place. I did all my long runs this winter on very few calories (I think I took 75-80 on my 24-mile runs). No gels for me, ever. Way too much of a sugar spike for my body and they have made me heave on more than one occasion!! Bike, just water for 2 hours or less. Beyond that, I use Infinit and/or Carbo-Pro with Nuun. Oh, and I have also dialed back on protein in my Infinit mix.

Oh, and when/if I get in trouble, I slow down for sure. Depending on the circumstances I'd stop nutrition or switch to something else. Cramping is not something I ever have. GI distress isn't something I ever had to the extent that I did in my IM, but then I never did a 7-hour bike ride in 85+ degrees.

Pre-training and racing, I always eat granola with soy milk. No dairy, beyond a splash of half-and-half in my coffee -- dairy gives me side aches. If I have to train later in the day, I keep the foods on the mild side and don't worry about balanced nutrition (I eat tons of fruits/veggies on a daily basis, so skimping here and there doesn't matter, IMO good nutrition is all about moderation and balance over time). I can stomach a smoothie a few hours before a ride (there is yogurt in my smoothie = dairy), but I would never try to have one for breakfast if I were running within 3 hours. Cereals/granola, toast, higher carbs and lower protein (maybe toast w/peanut butter)... those are the kinds of things I'd eat if I had a key/long workout that I couldn't execute in the morning.

No racing for me.... not until Knoxville!  

I am still working on my HIM nutrition for the year, so any help or ideas here is appreciated.  I do OK with solids, but usually have a hard time with any type of synthesized protein.   I am currently a lean 175 lbs and my goal race weight this year is about 172 lbs.  I am starting with what has worked well for me on my long 4+ hours rides in the past .... we will see how it changes with training before the HIM later in the year?  So my current race plan that I testing right now includes:  

Bike = 1  HEED bottle (400 cal)(mixed strong to supplement other water on the course) /   1 Sustained Energy bottle (425 cal) (also mixed strong to supplement water on the course) (I seem to be OK with this protein??) Water on the course and maybe some additional electrolytes if it is warm.  I do carry a third bottle of water with me currently.  

Run= 3-4 Gels (90-100 cal each), about every 15-20 min & the fewer the better, and gu chomps (180 cal per package) if the stomach is happy along with water on the course.  And again, maybe some additional electrolytes if it is warm.

This plan puts me at about 200 to 250 calories per hour....The fourth discipline, fun!

For those that care:  My Oly plan that has always been rock solid: A solid bland breakfast @ 1 1/2 hrs before swim.... Bike = 1 bottle of HEED (mixed strong to supplement other water on the course) and maybe some additional electrolytes if it is warm as I am a huge sweater!  I also carry a bag of gu chomps with me and will hit them if I feel hungry in any way.  Run=  One gel about 15-20 minutes in with some water (mile 2 or 3 water station depending on how I feel) ... that is usually my signal that it is time to start entering the hurt locker!  Then eat like a pig as soon as you are done and for 3-4 days after the race. 

I've been talking a lot with my coach about nutrition and he has taught me many valuable lessons.  To poorly summarize, he explained it is mostly about teaching your body how to produce energy (mitochondria rich cells) and burn natural energy (glycogen/fat/carbs) not just consume it.  Your body may burn 400 cal/hr in a race but if your gut can only absorb 200 cal/hour, regardless of how much you consume, then the gap must come from your body.  Fueling is a balance between taking in enough of the right components to maintain what your body does naturally.   Now finding that balance is different for each of us and that is the real rub isn't it?  This is all for long distance training.  I'm sure it is different for sprints where you need to be fast twitching all the time.

Ha Ha Ha

Poor Tony - first I made him start eating lots more veggies w/ meals then I took away his red meat and the coup de gras was pulling out my phone at a restaurant to look up the menu's nutritional info.  He, of course, had to look as well and order something different while grumbling.  Total buzz kill.

So my philosophy for everyday meals is simple and fresh.  We get our fruits, veggies, eggs, milk, fish and meat from local sources delivered to our door.  Most of our dinners consist of salmon, bean/lentils dishes, veggie or seafood pasta, and some chicken dishes.  The only red meat we do is ground beef (grass-fed) or bison.  I want to know the name of my animal and the farmer who raised it in case I have any problems!

If I could only get our kids to eat as well.  They do well w/ fruit and low fat dairy but their meat choices are crap and veggies are a struggle.  I'm hoping that a garden this year will encourage them to eat better.  Lately, I've been mincing green like kale, collards and chard into the taco meat.  They can't tell the difference.  Any moms out there have any ideas?  I'm hoping it's a phase.

My training nutrition varies by lengths.  I tend to follow Kyla's strategy.  Any workouts from 0-90 min I won't eat or drink anything unless it's super hot.  Over 90min, I prefer Infinit on the bike for long rides.  For my runs I wouldn't take anything for less than 2 hrs. then I'll do gels in the winter and Infinit in the summer.  I generally don't have GI issues as long as I stay away from Gatorade and Poweraid type stuff on race courses.  My race on Sunday was abdominal but not the normal stomach cramping.  This was much higher and a different pain.  I honestly don't think it was nutrtionally related to that day.

For race day, on a short course, probably just a gel before the swim then maybe another gelor some infinit at some point depending on the length of time I'm on course.  For HIM (my longest race to date), I create a plan that details the # of calories, what type and when.  My coach feels very strongly that nothing should be eaten 15min before or after a transition.  He thinks that can cause GI distress.  Give your body a chance to adjust to the new activity then start your nutrition again.  I had a solid plan last year for Lone Star and nailed my nutrition.

Now for workouts later in the day, it is really hard.  I cannot work out b/t 2-5pm.  For me, I am really hungry at some point during that time and I think that leads me to eat too many calories for the day. I'll eat 200-400 cal  before an afternoon workout then still have dinner and possibly an evening snack.  If I wait and do my workout after dinner/bedtime then I will just have a 100-200 cal. recovery snack.

But the important thing to remember is that everyone is different.

3 hous for a bike split (conservative but a nice round number)  400 + 425 = 825  /3 = 275 cal per hour

2:45 bike split (20.4 mph avg, probably closer to accurate than 3 hrs.)   400 + 425 = 825  /2.75= 300 cal per hour

Run

2 hours for a run split (conservative but a nice round number)  400 + 180 =580  /2 = 290 cal per hour

1:52 run split (again probably more closer to accurate than 2 hours) 400 + 180= 580 /1.87 = 310 cal per hour

is my math wrong?    more cals on the run than bike.