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2013-04-22 12:29 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Thanks.  The saddle liooks tilted down at this angle, but I need to see if it is.  Going in for a fit soon so will get that sorted out.  Also I am using the same aero bars I first bought way back in 2007 or so.  I would like to get a new cockpit setup.  Tries the Planet X aerobars "S" bend but didn't work for me, too much wrist discomfort.


2013-04-22 1:15 PM
in reply to: #4710053

Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
GoFaster - 2013-04-22 12:19 PM
ChrisM - 2013-04-22 12:25 PM

Oh, it was already on 3 sec.  It wasn't jumping around like current power, I was just unable to hold a power for 20 minutes on the road.  I should add I had 3 90 degree turns for each interval, plus traffic and lights.  It was not an ideal set up to do 3 x 20 anything, but it was such a nice day there was no way I doing that on the trainer

I was also showing HR (holdover from prior ride), and time for the intervals.  If I was showing AP or NP, it wouldn't really be all that accurate, would it, as there was an easy warmup and 5 minutes of soft pedaling between the 20s?

BTW, here she is all dolled up.  I know it's not a proper drive side photo but this is BT

Nice looking ride!

You can set your AP and NP per lap - not just overall ride, so it will be very accurate.  You just have to keep in mind that when you start a new lap or interval (at least on a Garmin) the AP resets immediately, but the NP is carrying over from the previous lap/interval.  I can't remember the details on how this piece works, but for me, NP is useful as an overall metric, and when I'm into longer intervals or overall ride.

Yes. NP doesn't really work well for shorter segments. Generally what I've seen is that it's considered useless (or quite inaccurate) under 5 minutes. Possibly semi-useful up to 20, and then more useful longer than that. So basically just for 20 min or more.

What could be really nice for us would be to expand out the 3 & 30 second averages to much bigger values. I would find a constantly sliding 20 min average of the last 20 minutes more useful than harder set points of laps, for one example. That would give a better view of the trend while in the ride. I don't know how difficult it would be, but not sure why it would be much (if any) more so than the current lap or overall averages already in place.

2013-04-22 1:49 PM
in reply to: #4709780

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

2013-04-22 1:54 PM
in reply to: #4710222

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-04-22 11:49 AM
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

Hum, I would have never caught that.  All my flip turns are lazy.  Yours looked pretty darn good to me. 

2013-04-22 1:58 PM
in reply to: #4709757

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
brigby1 - 2013-04-22 11:48 AM

mndymond - 2013-04-22 8:32 AM
brigby1 - 2013-04-22 6:25 AMI've been looking over psyche sheets for an upcoming Masters meet. See a bunch of times for people I swim with regularly that I likely can't touch, but I'm faster than them at practice much of the time. Psyche sheets are estimated swim times, but I think many have swum right about these times at prior meets. Looking at predominantly 50 & 100 yd events, various strokes. Does the taper and it being a meet make that much difference? Is it doing a single event with big spacing between them, vs doing a bunch of repeats? (I do seem to outlast them more so, staying strong later on in the workout) Am I just working myself harder in practice? I do work on speed, but with the mindset of being faster at longer distance, as opposed to being for sprint events.
Swimming is in general a bit of a different beast compared to what we do in triathlon--especially with the sprints. I was never a sprinter. And to this day I have friends that havent been in the water that can still pull out the stops and kick my a$$ at a 50fly or 50free. 100 might be tough and I could kill them at 200 and above. Swim racing is different than repeats in practice. Some sets are designed for race pace--but generally when you do them you have sufficient rest if the point is to hold your 200m pace as an example. A good taper is amazing in swimming. its a mix of water feel, being amped up and confidence. The best 200fr I ever did was easily 10s faster than what I had ever done in a practice at that point. But, the thing about psych sheets is sometimes the best time that person achieved ever. Period. And things change over the years. When I went back to club swimming/pseudo masters in my first two years of med I made my coaches enter me with different times because I would have gotten slaughtered in a heat that was seeded based off my PB. I was prob 15s slower for 200m distances than my best ever performances. In that same light, some meets allow people to enter their own times. I've had meets where the psych sheets were accurate and meets where the rankings were rewritten. Don't think about it too much. Psych sheets have a tendency to psych you out. Just go out and do your races--race the people in your heat--or race the fastest time. Try not to race the psych sheet.

Ok, thanks Melissa. Sounds like it's mostly the taper having a bigger effect than I thought then. I'll be fine in the 1650 free. The 50 fly was more puzzling, though I should be fine from any psyche outs as I just wanted to do the event, kind of expecting to be behind. I put 37 as I don't really know for sure. First 10 in my age are 30 sec or faster. Then me. Then another guy who may need a break at the wall.

The seed times people entered at the meet on the weekend were all over the map of what they actually swam as well.  In the 100 free video I posted, the guy in lane 4 had a seed time of 1:01 but I don't think he went faster than 1:10 at best.  Then there were a couple of guys that had no seed times at all for some events but were actually quite fast.

2013-04-22 1:59 PM
in reply to: #4710229

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
bzgl40 - 2013-04-22 3:54 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 11:49 AM
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

Hum, I would have never caught that.  All my flip turns are lazy.  Yours looked pretty darn good to me. 

I do them like that all the time in practice but when you miss going under 20 minutes by 0.7 seconds, they don't look as good.  



2013-04-22 2:06 PM
in reply to: #4709851

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
brigby1 - 2013-04-22 12:34 PM
ChrisM - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 3:22 AM
tri808 - 2013-04-22 1:29 AM

Chris...you make me feel like an idiot.  I noticed that the free hub pops off the first time I ever changed the cassette on it 3 years ago.  Yet it never dawned upon me that I didn't need to take off the cassette to put the disc cover on because of it.

And as far as riding steady power outside...it's a little tricky at first, but you get used to it.  It's also excellent practice for keeping your effort steady on race day.

I've heard about this mythical freehub popping off but I've never tried it on mine.... too chicken.  What do you do to get it to do it?

Agree with Jason on the power, it can be really tricky depending on the terrain and conditions.  I give myself a little flexibility sometimes when something happens to throw the numbers off.  Yesterday I had to coast for about 15 seconds in the middle of a 20' interval to avoid riding into the back of some jackhole that cut me off and as a result my AP dropped about 7w.  I just kept going steady at the target power knowing the number would be a bit low as a result rather than overdo the rest of it to try to bring it up.  By the end of the 20' the AP had crept back within 2w of the target.

Man I wish my variability was 7w. I was seeing 110 to 350..... And no other riders to blame it on. A few times I got in a sweet spot and could sorta tell I was in range. Other times, not so much

I see instantaneous values all over the place too. It was his AP that dropped by 7. After you've been riding for a bit, it should remain more steady as there are more data points in that average. it would take a much bigger variation to change it, or a smaller held for a much longer time. Even when it's really hilly, my average can stay fairly consistent late in a ride.

And I don't have a PowerTap, so never had the inclination to go look for what you found!

Yeah, I should clarify that I was looking at lap AP and that's what dropped off by the 7w.  I was doing a set of 3 x 20' and when I'm doing something like that I have a page on my computer that has 3s and 30s power, lap AP, lap time and lap distance.  I just focus on having the lap AP in the right range and for the most part don't worry too much about the 3s power unless something just changed like starting a hill or going over the top of one.  I keep a closer eye on 30s power as that gives me an idea of how I am trending.   In a longer race, I take that lap distance out and replace with lap NP and have the computer auto lap every 15 kms.  I didn't know that lap NP didn't reset right away.... shows how much I paid attention to it.  

2013-04-22 2:14 PM
in reply to: #4710238

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-04-22 2:59 PM
bzgl40 - 2013-04-22 3:54 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 11:49 AM
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

Hum, I would have never caught that.  All my flip turns are lazy.  Yours looked pretty darn good to me. 

I do them like that all the time in practice but when you miss going under 20 minutes by 0.7 seconds, they don't look as good.  

Aw, dangit - I just got a chance to watch the videos you posted Arend and was logging on to take my WAGs, and I had two: I was going to say flip turns, but not going in, actually coming out - I was surprised to see you breaching what looks like some distance before the flags, could be the camera angle, but if you are is that part of your "lazy" turn? Also, it could be a video quality thing, but it looks like you are lifting your head just a tiny bit sometimes on your breath - almost like you are peeking at something. Are you watching a pace clock? Take that for what it is worth from this 26:00 guy. I think with your lazy flip turns I could probably drop that down to 25:00 easy....

Fantastically awesome swims all around! And thanks for posting the videos - pure grace in motion.

Now I gotta go and finally read Salty's RR - did she win? Wait - no spoilers!!!!!

2013-04-22 2:20 PM
in reply to: #4710277

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TankBoy - 2013-04-22 4:14 PM 

Aw, dangit - I just got a chance to watch the videos you posted Arend and was logging on to take my WAGs, and I had two: I was going to say flip turns, but not going in, actually coming out - I was surprised to see you breaching what looks like some distance before the flags, could be the camera angle, but if you are is that part of your "lazy" turn? Also, it could be a video quality thing, but it looks like you are lifting your head just a tiny bit sometimes on your breath - almost like you are peeking at something. Are you watching a pace clock? Take that for what it is worth from this 26:00 guy. I think with your lazy flip turns I could probably drop that down to 25:00 easy....

Fantastically awesome swims all around! And thanks for posting the videos - pure grace in motion.

Now I gotta go and finally read Salty's RR - did she win? Wait - no spoilers!!!!!

Excellent observation Rusty.  The head lifting thing is a remnant of my youth swimming, something that was drilled into me that probably shouldn't have been.  I consider that a difficult thing to fix because it's so ingrained, the flip turn thing is easy because it's just being lazy.  

As for the distance off the wall, I think the camera angle is coming into play a bit there but also the distance of the swim.  For a shorter event like the 100 I would do a few dolphin kicks off the wall to get more distance but I find that aerobically tiring so I don't do much of it for a 1500.

2013-04-22 2:48 PM
in reply to: #4710286

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-04-22 9:20 AM

As for the distance off the wall, I think the camera angle is coming into play a bit there but also the distance of the swim.  For a shorter event like the 100 I would do a few dolphin kicks off the wall to get more distance but I find that aerobically tiring so I don't do much of it for a 1500.

I think when I was watching videos of Grant Hackett and Sun Yang swimming the 1500, I don't remember them doing any dolphin kicking off the wall.

2013-04-22 2:48 PM
in reply to: #4710253

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

axteraa - 2013-04-22 2:06 PM   In a longer race, I take that lap distance out and replace with lap NP and have the computer auto lap every 15 kms.  I didn't know that lap NP didn't reset right away.... shows how much I paid attention to it.  

The lap NP will reset when you tell it to. It'll give you numbers within a few seconds too. But they won't be very accurate because there just isn't enough data in the short intervals for it to really work well.



2013-04-22 3:01 PM
in reply to: #4710277

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TankBoy - 2013-04-22 2:14 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 2:59 PM
bzgl40 - 2013-04-22 3:54 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 11:49 AM
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

Hum, I would have never caught that.  All my flip turns are lazy.  Yours looked pretty darn good to me. 

I do them like that all the time in practice but when you miss going under 20 minutes by 0.7 seconds, they don't look as good.  

 

Now I gotta go and finally read Salty's RR - did she win? Wait - no spoilers!!!!!

Sheesh, you almost need a spoiler due to the length of the thing.

As it turns out, I didn't!!!! But it was close Wink Maybe give me a few years?

2013-04-22 4:20 PM
in reply to: #4710286

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Champion
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-04-22 1:20 PM
TankBoy - 2013-04-22 4:14 PM 

Aw, dangit - I just got a chance to watch the videos you posted Arend and was logging on to take my WAGs, and I had two: I was going to say flip turns, but not going in, actually coming out - I was surprised to see you breaching what looks like some distance before the flags, could be the camera angle, but if you are is that part of your "lazy" turn? Also, it could be a video quality thing, but it looks like you are lifting your head just a tiny bit sometimes on your breath - almost like you are peeking at something. Are you watching a pace clock? Take that for what it is worth from this 26:00 guy. I think with your lazy flip turns I could probably drop that down to 25:00 easy....

Fantastically awesome swims all around! And thanks for posting the videos - pure grace in motion.

Now I gotta go and finally read Salty's RR - did she win? Wait - no spoilers!!!!!

Excellent observation Rusty.  The head lifting thing is a remnant of my youth swimming, something that was drilled into me that probably shouldn't have been.  I consider that a difficult thing to fix because it's so ingrained, the flip turn thing is easy because it's just being lazy.  

As for the distance off the wall, I think the camera angle is coming into play a bit there but also the distance of the swim.  For a shorter event like the 100 I would do a few dolphin kicks off the wall to get more distance but I find that aerobically tiring so I don't do much of it for a 1500.

We used to do these turns in practice called "survival turns" where we wernt allowed to breath from flags to flags. Then they started adding on dolphin kicks. We would do time as a team if anyone breathed. We once had a set of 400s that started off as 4x400 and ended up being the entire 2.5hr practice because people kept breathing. Lol. We got really good at fast turns! Haha. It def is the first thing to go in races though once the oxygen debt kicks in. I'm not fit enough to do it all the time once distances start to go up right now that's for sure and I prob never really did it for 800/1500. I like my O2. Lol
2013-04-22 4:35 PM
in reply to: #4710332

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
brigby1 - 2013-04-22 4:48 PM

axteraa - 2013-04-22 2:06 PM   In a longer race, I take that lap distance out and replace with lap NP and have the computer auto lap every 15 kms.  I didn't know that lap NP didn't reset right away.... shows how much I paid attention to it.  

The lap NP will reset when you tell it to. It'll give you numbers within a few seconds too. But they won't be very accurate because there just isn't enough data in the short intervals for it to really work well.

That makes sense,thanks.

2013-04-22 4:37 PM
in reply to: #4710507

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

mndymond - 2013-04-22 6:20 PM I like my O2. Lol

ME too!  I hate doing sets with flag breathing.  

2013-04-22 5:08 PM
in reply to: #4710330

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
tri808 - 2013-04-22 4:48 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 9:20 AM

As for the distance off the wall, I think the camera angle is coming into play a bit there but also the distance of the swim.  For a shorter event like the 100 I would do a few dolphin kicks off the wall to get more distance but I find that aerobically tiring so I don't do much of it for a 1500.

I think when I was watching videos of Grant Hackett and Sun Yang swimming the 1500, I don't remember them doing any dolphin kicking off the wall.

Yeah, I just checked a few as well. Sun Yang doesn't for sure, some of the others do.  If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.  



2013-04-22 5:48 PM
in reply to: #4710363

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Master
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...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Asalzwed - 2013-04-22 4:01 PM
TankBoy - 2013-04-22 2:14 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 2:59 PM
bzgl40 - 2013-04-22 3:54 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 11:49 AM
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

Hum, I would have never caught that.  All my flip turns are lazy.  Yours looked pretty darn good to me. 

I do them like that all the time in practice but when you miss going under 20 minutes by 0.7 seconds, they don't look as good.  

 

Now I gotta go and finally read Salty's RR - did she win? Wait - no spoilers!!!!!

Sheesh, you almost need a spoiler due to the length of the thing.

As it turns out, I didn't!!!! But it was close Wink Maybe give me a few years?

If by "long" you mean "AWESOME!" Then I agree with you: that race report is too awesome!!! just the right length if you asked me, well worth it with all of the focus you put on your training this year. It has been so much fun to follow. So many folks I know that runs Boston qualifies and then goes up and Cadillac's the race - it is really cool that you targeted it as a big race and put the training in to run it to perfection. It was actually fun to watch your splits roll in along with everyone else I was following and see you were the only one that ran such solid splits - I think you "ran down" (virtually and maybe even in real life) just about everyone in the hills that I was following. Pure awesomeness!

2013-04-22 6:15 PM
in reply to: #4710611

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TankBoy - 2013-04-22 5:48 PM
Asalzwed - 2013-04-22 4:01 PM
TankBoy - 2013-04-22 2:14 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 2:59 PM
bzgl40 - 2013-04-22 3:54 PM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 11:49 AM
kcarroll - 2013-04-22 11:59 AM
axteraa - 2013-04-22 10:00 AM

KansasMom - 2013-04-22 8:36 AM

What I am struck by in watching your stroke is how far you get with each stroke and how effortless it seems compared to the three in the bottom of the screen. That is the strength of the pull, I assume. Anyway, thanks for posting your videos. I have enjoyed watching them (repeatedly). 

Thanks, I was glad to have them for my myself, it's been a while since I had any video at all.  Still trying to figure out how to get some underwater shots.

ditto on your stroke/speed Arend. Did I miss the answer to your question? What was the one simple thing?

Great big l.a.z.y. flip turns.  There were quite a few that I saw where I could have taken another stroke and/or been a lot snappier with bringing my legs over.

Hum, I would have never caught that.  All my flip turns are lazy.  Yours looked pretty darn good to me. 

I do them like that all the time in practice but when you miss going under 20 minutes by 0.7 seconds, they don't look as good.  

 

Now I gotta go and finally read Salty's RR - did she win? Wait - no spoilers!!!!!

Sheesh, you almost need a spoiler due to the length of the thing.

As it turns out, I didn't!!!! But it was close Wink Maybe give me a few years?

If by "long" you mean "AWESOME!" Then I agree with you: that race report is too awesome!!! just the right length if you asked me, well worth it with all of the focus you put on your training this year. It has been so much fun to follow. So many folks I know that runs Boston qualifies and then goes up and Cadillac's the race - it is really cool that you targeted it as a big race and put the training in to run it to perfection. It was actually fun to watch your splits roll in along with everyone else I was following and see you were the only one that ran such solid splits - I think you "ran down" (virtually and maybe even in real life) just about everyone in the hills that I was following. Pure awesomeness!

Awww thank you! 

Yeah, Boston is an undeniably TOUGH course. Harder than I thought it would be and I didn't go into it blind. On one hand I can see wanting to Cadillac it; But on the other I would feel like I was wasting all of those spectator's energy!

I wasn't really thinking about Boston 2014 but I'm sort of dying to go back ...

2013-04-22 6:26 PM
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2013-04-22 6:42 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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2013-04-22 6:50 PM
in reply to: #4710663

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Fred D - 2013-04-22 4:42 PM Btw I am really enjoying the riding these days on the road bike. I have no idea of cadence, speed or power anymore, but I still track my HR. honestly it's been enlightening to ride this way. I highly doubt it's the best way to get fast and definitely not the most scientific approach to training, but it has essentially brought me full circle from starting only with HR, then cadence, then GPS, then power and now back to mainly just HR. (I do ride with GPS on for strava segments of course, but even then I'm just pushing hard and not paying attention to speed). I have a few friends that ride a lot but don't even track distance. They just ride by time. I'm not quite there, but that's probably the ultimate 'zen' experience for cyclists. Also been learning how to draft in cycling groups better. One thing that has become apparent is that being immediately behind the cyclist in front is not usually the lowest draft zone to be in. It's a pretty good discussion topic, but anyone interested in this discussion on drafting?

Saturday morning our route intersected with our local donut ride at the bottom of a certain climb.  I joined in and climbed with them, always thought they were all uber bikers and I'd get dropped.  have to say I held my one.  At the top hooked up with a former pro who owns our LBS, and we descended and hit some rollers with him.  I was right behind him and have to say drafting off of a very good (as in, he wins a lot of local crits against very strong riders etc) was an eye opener.  Every movement and signal had an exact purpose.  As long as I held the wheel, it was good, but if I got gapped it was bad, LOL.

There is a lot to good drafting, both in being the drafter and draftee.  Taking your turn at the front, and keeping a consistent pace, is very important.  Pacing, signals, handling, shifting, it takes a good amount of concentration and focus (and helps a bit with the pain..._)  This guy is who I was following   http://paulche.com/

ETA - as someone who just got into power, LOL, my tri club had a couple pro cyclist speakers (one disgraced and won't write his name here..  not THAT one), and their training philospohy was basicaly go as hard as you can for as long as you can, preferably uphill.  Can't say it's a bad training plan



Edited by ChrisM 2013-04-22 6:53 PM


2013-04-22 7:08 PM
in reply to: #4543084

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

True cyclists don't really need to track much at all.  Races are not about attaining the best time, or the best average power...it's simply about getting to the finish line first...which often requires more creative tactics and strategy rather than pure fitness.  When I group ride with roadies...I pay very little attention to my computer while riding.  More of an FYI after the ride, or during water stops.  Our teams best rider who has raced semi pro in the past just uses a simple wired computer for speed and distance.  No HR, Power, or anything like that.

As far as drafting, you definately want to find the sweet spot if the paceline is single file.  In general you try to guess where the best draft is based on wind direction...then sort of sway (slowly) a couple inches to the left...then back to the right to find where the best draft is.  Unless the road is perfectly straight, and the wind is from a constant direction, you'll likely be testing and adjusting your drafting position quite often.  Of course changes in speed (yaw angle changes) will also impact where the best draft is.

This is very important to understand when group riding because when you're in front, you want to make sure you are riding to the optimal side of the shoulder that allows everyone behind you to draft safely.  And you also need to be aware that there is a greater chance someone may be crossing your wheel to a certain direction to get that draft...so you want to avoid making any sudden movements to that direction.  So if you are echeloning from left to right, and you see a pothole coming up...don't move right to avoid it.  Move slightly left if possible...or just hold your line...which is often the best solution in a tight paceline.

Of course when racing, the strategy is often the opposite...and you're trying to put guys "in the gutter" so they don't get the optimal draft.  Or at least only leave enough room for your teammates.

2013-04-22 10:40 PM
in reply to: #4710683

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
tri808 - 2013-04-22 8:08 PM

...it's simply about getting to the finish line first...which often requires more creative tactics and strategy rather than pure fitness.  

I also read something once something that I thought was awesome about cyclists.  They don't PR, they either finish "on the podium," "in the pack", or "off the back."  I think that's great.

Kid update, sorry.  The 7yo is a fast swimmer, but I had the privilege of taking the just recently 4yo to swim today.  We've spoken to her instructor about summer league that requires them to swim 25yd unassisted.  So today, in the big pool (that's competitive temp - freezing), the instructor sends her off by herself.  First time.  The girl proceeds to swim 50 back (break at the wall) and 50 free (break at the wall) unassisted.  I was shocked/thrilled.  Since a 25 is no problem, she going to race her first triathlon this weekend.  Just to clarify, she's beyond excited about racing like her big brother.  It's going to be spectacular.



Edited by Goosedog 2013-04-22 10:48 PM
2013-04-22 10:53 PM
in reply to: #4710948

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Goosedog - 2013-04-22 10:40 PM
tri808 - 2013-04-22 8:08 PM

...it's simply about getting to the finish line first...which often requires more creative tactics and strategy rather than pure fitness.  

I also read something once something that I thought was awesome about cyclists.  They don't PR, they either finish "on the podium," "in the pack", or "off the back."  I think that's great.

Kid update, sorry.  The 7yo is a fast swimmer, but I had the privilege of taking the just recently 4yo to swim today.  We've spoken to her instructor about summer league that requires them to swim 25yd unassisted.  So today, in the big pool (that's competitive temp - freezing), the instructor sends her off by herself.  First time.  The girl proceeds to swim 50 back (break at the wall) and 50 free (break at the wall) unassisted.  I was shocked/thrilled.  Since a 25 is no problem, she going to race her first triathlon this weekend.  Just to clarify, she's beyond excited about racing like her big brother.  It's going to be spectacular.

Excellent!

2013-04-22 10:55 PM
in reply to: #4710948

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Goosedog - 2013-04-22 8:40 PM
tri808 - 2013-04-22 8:08 PM

...it's simply about getting to the finish line first...which often requires more creative tactics and strategy rather than pure fitness.  

I also read something once something that I thought was awesome about cyclists.  They don't PR, they either finish "on the podium," "in the pack", or "off the back."  I think that's great.

Kid update, sorry.  The 7yo is a fast swimmer, but I had the privilege of taking the just recently 4yo to swim today.  We've spoken to her instructor about summer league that requires them to swim 25yd unassisted.  So today, in the big pool (that's competitive temp - freezing), the instructor sends her off by herself.  First time.  The girl proceeds to swim 50 back (break at the wall) and 50 free (break at the wall) unassisted.  I was shocked/thrilled.  Since a 25 is no problem, she going to race her first triathlon this weekend.  Just to clarify, she's beyond excited about racing like her big brother.  It's going to be spectacular.

Very cool!   Tell her she has a BT fan club rooting for her!

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