Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010

Regular

244

Jupiter, FL

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

JorgeM - 2010-11-19 7:37 AM Jorge PBMC: Cycling Plan v3.0 - Week # 4 - http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/

For those training with power - I updated the excel file that you can use to estimate Critical Power, please use this new version to update your current CP and training levels. You'll be able to differentiate each other by our new PBMC Logo. You can disregard the old file.

Once you do don't forget to update the Google doc spreadsheet! Thanks.

Thanks Jorge.

I already updated mine, but you might want to change the formulas on the Power with Trainer spreadsheet as well.

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Regular

57

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Jorge or anyone,
Will we have another test soon? I'm using the HR plan and feel that my HR zones (percentages) are a little off. Or should I do another test at anytime and adjust the numbers. Thanks John

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48	Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Will we have another test soon? According to Jorge's calendar, next week (Week 4) is an "Unload Week", and Week 5, beginning 11/29 we test again.

Expert

1179

Kansas City, Missouri

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Flagstaff30 - 2010-11-19 8:49 AM

Will we have another test soon?

According to Jorge's calendar, next week (Week 4) is an "Unload Week", and Week 5, beginning 11/29 we test again.

What, no test the day after Thanksgiving? Weak!!

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Expert

913

Lost in the Evergreens

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Just finished the analysis of this week3Q1 5mp. 375watts was my target power output for the 5mp. Here are the results:
W3Q1: 371, 378, 385, 376, 386.
W2Q1: 349, 371, 371, 375 and 386watts.

Much slower attack during the 5th interval. It took 12seconds after the first shift to get up to the 400watts range which effected the average. I'm thinking of changing how I ride the 1min intervals. For this test I dropped 4 gears to go from 200watts to 400watts. With 2-3 seconds for the shimano ultegra to shift and my cadance to reset after each shift. If I dbl-tap skipping sprockets I may be able to get up to 400 watts a few seconds faster, or maybe i'll just crash my drive train.

I've noticed the mental bits suffer as well as the legs during Jorges quality workouts. Good thing I'm doing this on a trainer in the safety of my gargage. I would never train this hard on the streets.

Question for the Forum -
How many gears did you drop between 65%cp and 130%cp? Did you step down or drop them all at once?

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Expert

1179

Kansas City, Missouri

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 9:52 AM

Question for the Forum -
How many gears did you drop between 65%cp and 130%cp? Did you step down or drop them all at once?

I just pedal harder in the same gear. Mind you, I'm only going from ~135 to ~235 so. I tend to be <85rpm average though and am trying to build that to a >90 avg.

JorgeM - For those training with power - I updated the excel file that you can use to estimate Critical Power, please use this new version to update your current CP and training levels. You'll be able to differentiate each other by our new PBMC Logo. You can disregard the old file.

Once you do don't forget to update the Google doc spreadsheet! Thanks.

That dropped my CP by 15w.

No likey.

Edited by shmeeg 2010-11-19 12:38 PM

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Elite

7783

PEI, Canada

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 1:52 PM

Question for the Forum -
How many gears did you drop between 65%cp and 130%cp? Did you step down or drop them all at once?

I'm doing most of my workouts on rollers and there, I have to drop 2 gears and increase my cadence. When I use my trainer, it's probably just one gear and a cadence increase. When I have to do multiple gears, it's shift - get the cadence back up to where I want it, shift again - that's really only a process of a couple seconds though.

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Elite

3779

Ontario

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

JorgeM - 2010-11-19 7:37 AM Jorge PBMC: Cycling Plan v3.0 - Week # 4 - http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/

For those training with power - I updated the excel file that you can use to estimate Critical Power, please use this new version to update your current CP and training levels. You'll be able to differentiate each other by our new PBMC Logo. You can disregard the old file.

Once you do don't forget to update the Google doc spreadsheet! Thanks.

Boooo - I lost 9 watts (though the numbers make more sense). Grudgingly updated the google spreadsheet.

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Expert

913

Lost in the Evergreens

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

GoFaster - 2010-11-19 1:09 PM

JorgeM - 2010-11-19 7:37 AM Jorge PBMC: Cycling Plan v3.0 - Week # 4 - http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/

For those training with power - I updated the excel file that you can use to estimate Critical Power, please use this new version to update your current CP and training levels. You'll be able to differentiate each other by our new PBMC Logo. You can disregard the old file.

Once you do don't forget to update the Google doc spreadsheet! Thanks.

Boooo - I lost 9 watts (though the numbers make more sense). Grudgingly updated the google spreadsheet.

Google has been updated and my new CP is 26watts lower. These workouts just became alot easier. I'm curious if the previous training program used the errant formula, perhaps we should be raising the percentages of cp higher. For example we could change the 65%cp recovery interval to 70% of cp.

65% of my old cp was 179.4w
65% of my new cp is only 162.5w.
but
70% of my new cp is 175w.

Cheers

My

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Master

2372

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

shmeeg - 2010-11-19 12:38 PM

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 9:52 AM

Question for the Forum -
How many gears did you drop between 65%cp and 130%cp? Did you step down or drop them all at once?

I just pedal harder in the same gear. Mind you, I'm only going from ~135 to ~235 so. I tend to be <85rpm average though and am trying to build that to a >90 avg.

Just one gear shift typically. Then again I also typically go from 85rpm to ~100 or so for the hard intervals. My best TT performances and power seem to lie at high turnover rates. My long TT test was at 98rpm and 3 min test was at 106. Not sure why, but that is what tends to work best.

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Expert

1179

Kansas City, Missouri

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 2:49 PM Google has been updated and my new CP is 26watts lower. These workouts just became alot easier. I'm curious if the previous training program used the errant formula, perhaps we should be raising the percentages of cp higher. For example we could change the 65%cp recovery interval to 70% of cp.

65% of my old cp was 179.4w
65% of my new cp is only 162.5w.
but
70% of my new cp is 175w.

Cheers

My

x2. But we are testing again after next week's deload, so we will have a new CP w/ the new calculations to use for percentages, so maybe it won't be an issue.

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48

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 3:49 PM
Google has been updated and my new CP is 26watts lower.

Hm.... I thought I was the winner with a 13 watt difference, so I looked back through the thread and found your numbers: 3' = 389, 20' = 284. Assuming that's correct, the old spreadsheet should give a CP of 278 and the new one should give 265. Looks like a tie to me!

Expert

1179

Kansas City, Missouri

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

We're about to have to break out the pencils and do this by hand!

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Elite

7783

PEI, Canada

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Flagstaff30 - 2010-11-19 8:20 PM

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 3:49 PM
Google has been updated and my new CP is 26watts lower.

Hm.... I thought I was the winner with a 13 watt difference, so I looked back through the thread and found your numbers: 3' = 389, 20' = 284. Assuming that's correct, the old spreadsheet should give a CP of 278 and the new one should give 265. Looks like a tie to me!

I haven't gone and checked any numbers but make sure that you are changing the time for the short test to 3' as it defaults to 5' That might account for the difference between your results.

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Expert

913

Lost in the Evergreens

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

No need for pencils at 50 paces, I'll conceed. It's easy to get confused, I'm suffering from data sprall.

Time to ride.

Edited by Fit4Infinity 2010-11-20 9:25 AM

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Expert

1121

Menomonee Falls, WI

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Is there a link for this program in it's entirety so that someone starting it late or planning to start it in the future can do so independently? I'm guessing this topic has been discussed somewhere, but I didn't see it. I also didn't see anywhere to download the actual complete plan and am curious if it is indeed available?

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Expert

668

Lancaster, PA

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Hello everyone,

I started this week and this morning was Prep W1- day 3-
I am still trying to figure out where my Hr% should be and trying to sync it with RPE.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/57308539

Here's the number stuff.

Have a great weekend everyone,

thomas

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Extreme Veteran

590

Northern Virginia

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Updated the Google Spreadsheet with the revised CP, down 12 points.Any advice on adjusting trainer load? I have a Kurt Kinetic road trainer (cranked down 4 turns), and with a compact right (34-52) I'm riding small ring (34), low gears (around 15) on the back on the easy/recover parts of the workouts (60-70 CP), and big ring and shift up 2-3 cogs on the back (around 19) on the hard parts (85% CP and up).I want to avoid shifting the front ring, but also want to avoid cross-chaining and rubbing the chain on the big ring.Do others shift both front and back, or can I adjust the trainer to stay on a single front ring?TIA.

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Coach

10487

Boston, MA

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 4:49 PM

GoFaster - 2010-11-19 1:09 PM

JorgeM - 2010-11-19 7:37 AM Jorge PBMC: Cycling Plan v3.0 - Week # 4 - http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/

For those training with power - I updated the excel file that you can use to estimate Critical Power, please use this new version to update your current CP and training levels. You'll be able to differentiate each other by our new PBMC Logo. You can disregard the old file.

Once you do don't forget to update the Google doc spreadsheet! Thanks.

Boooo - I lost 9 watts (though the numbers make more sense). Grudgingly updated the google spreadsheet.

Google has been updated and my new CP is 26watts lower. These workouts just became alot easier. I'm curious if the previous training program used the errant formula, perhaps we should be raising the percentages of cp higher. For example we could change the 65%cp recovery interval to 70% of cp.

65% of my old cp was 179.4w
65% of my new cp is only 162.5w.
but
70% of my new cp is 175w.

Cheers

My

keep it simple - your updated CP is what you'll use to determine the % of your workouts. Hence, if your update CP is 250w then 90% will be 225w. As mentioned above, this coming week is an unload one and the one after we'll do the 2dn round of testing.

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Coach

10487

Boston, MA

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

windandsurf - 2010-11-20 12:29 PM Updated the Google Spreadsheet with the revised CP, down 12 points.Any advice on adjusting trainer load? I have a Kurt Kinetic road trainer (cranked down 4 turns), and with a compact right (34-52) I'm riding small ring (34), low gears (around 15) on the back on the easy/recover parts of the workouts (60-70 CP), and big ring and shift up 2-3 cogs on the back (around 19) on the hard parts (85% CP and up).I want to avoid shifting the front ring, but also want to avoid cross-chaining and rubbing the chain on the big ring.Do others shift both front and back, or can I adjust the trainer to stay on a single front ring?TIA.

Depends on the trainer. In my KK fluid one I tight it as prescribed by the vendor and always made sure my tired was inflated at the correct (same) psi. Rarely I would have to go to the big ring unless I was standing up or doing higher torque/low cadence sets.

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Coach

10487

Boston, MA

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

sbsmann - 2010-11-20 11:23 AM

Is there a link for this program in it's entirety so that someone starting it late or planning to start it in the future can do so independently? I'm guessing this topic has been discussed somewhere, but I didn't see it. I also didn't see anywhere to download the actual complete plan and am curious if it is indeed available?

The is been uploaded every week. All workouts will remain on my blog for the year. There is no a downloadable option (sorry); the trade off to get a free plan is to visit the blog from time to time

To look for it just use older posts. When the plan is over, I'll do a link to all the links for easy access.

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Coach

10487

Boston, MA

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

Flagstaff30 - 2010-11-19 6:20 PM

Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-19 3:49 PM
Google has been updated and my new CP is 26watts lower.

Hm.... I thought I was the winner with a 13 watt difference, so I looked back through the thread and found your numbers: 3' = 389, 20' = 284. Assuming that's correct, the old spreadsheet should give a CP of 278 and the new one should give 265. Looks like a tie to me!

yeah something is off with that. Fit4 - review your CP, I have it ~12w lower. BTW, when the 20MP and CP sessions begin, hopefully you can get that 20' much closer to the 3' power!

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Regular

108

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

JorgeM - 2010-11-20 2:02 PM

windandsurf - 2010-11-20 12:29 PM Any advice on adjusting trainer load? I have a Kurt Kinetic road trainer (cranked down 4 turns), and with a compact right (34-52) I'm riding small ring (34), low gears (around 15) on the back on the easy/recover parts of the workouts (60-70 CP), and big ring and shift up 2-3 cogs on the back (around 19) on the hard parts (85% CP and up).I want to avoid shifting the front ring, but also want to avoid cross-chaining and rubbing the chain on the big ring.Do others shift both front and back, or can I adjust the trainer to stay on a single front ring?TIA.

Depends on the trainer. In my KK fluid one I tight it as prescribed by the vendor and always made sure my tired was inflated at the correct (same) psi. Rarely I would have to go to the big ring unless I was standing up or doing higher torque/low cadence sets.

Piggybacking on windandsurf's question, when I make the move from 75% CP to 115% CP I've been shifting from the small chain ring to the large instead of turning up the cadence.

I know as a triathlete I should be trying to increase my cadence and move away from mashing(80 RPM), but I do enjoy the smoother turnover with the larger chain ring.

Is this not the preferred method? Is it really more just about individual preference? Perhaps during this program is the time to correct my cadence flaw or should I just be more concerned with increasing my FTP?

I've never been comfortable at 100 RPM cadence.

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Coach

10487

Boston, MA

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

KIELBASA - 2010-11-21 7:04 AM

Piggybacking on windandsurf's question, when I make the move from 75% CP to 115% CP I've been shifting from the small chain ring to the large instead of turning up the cadence.

I know as a triathlete I should be trying to increase my cadence and move away from mashing(80 RPM), but I do enjoy the smoother turnover with the larger chain ring.

Is this not the preferred method? Is it really more just about individual preference? Perhaps during this program is the time to correct my cadence flaw or should I just be more concerned with increasing my FTP?

I've never been comfortable at 100 RPM cadence.

If you read through this thread and some of my posts in the past you'll learn there is nothing wrong with a 80rpm nor it is mashing. Power = Pedal Force (torque) + Pedal Velocity (PV). If you increase one, you decrease the other one. What mis is best for you depends on your gearing, fitness, power, muscle fiber make, terrain, etc.

To focus just on cadence is to dismiss the other aspect of the power equation which is why generalizations such as: "people should ride at 'x' cadence" are misleading.

As long as you can get your workout done and you are not putting too much stress on your knees that sometimes might happen when riding indoors due to the static position, choose whatever cadence/torque that allows you to generate the prescribed power at the lowest RPE.

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48

Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011

when I make the move from 75% CP to 115% CP I've been shifting from the small chain ring to the large instead of turning up the cadence.

A few thoughts regarding workouts on trainers.

The easiest way to get a consistent rolling resistance is probably to bring the wheel up to a reasonable speed like 20mph, then see how long it takes to come to a stop when coasting. Tweak the tire pressure or roller pressure to try to get this to the same time for each workout. Some trainers are kind of difficult to adjust, and a little grease on the threads of the pressure screw can really help.

The trainer-specific tires that Continental and a few others offer are pretty nice. I can get away will less roller pressure, and after a year of use, there's no visible wear. Of course you can't use these outside, so you want a dedicated bike or wheel for trainer use.

When training with HR or using speed to estimate power, you don't want to push too hard to get up to speed for the VO2 intervals, particularly for the shorter 30 second efforts. I'll bet it takes me 10 - 15 seconds before I'm up to speed if I just go from say, 200 watts to 300 watts, as opposed to trying to accelerate up to speed quickly. One thing that's really apparent when you use a power meter is how much power is typically used when accelerating. I would think that a large shift, two or three cogs or small ring to large, might lead to a harder than desired effort to get the cadence back up. Using speed as a proxy for really only works for steady state efforts.

Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 (Page 16)

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