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Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: (Page 16)
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 2011-02-21 9:11 AM in reply to: #3364675 |
 49 |  Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI:jsklarz - 2011-02-21 7:32 AM what is so cynical about the Wisc initiative is that unions that supported the governor (police for example) are permitted to keep their collective bargaining rights. I agree with FDR, there are issues with unionization of public workers BUT that issue does not change based on wether they are teachers or firefighters. Basically, this is a political action to try and harm the Democrats, not actually balance the budget. Nothing like playing of fears of people and use of half-truths to achieve a political goal - Machiavelli and Richelieu would be so proud of us. Earlier in this thread, I provided the facts that show this is not exactly true. While I will not reiterate them all here, I will provide a summary. 1. Collective bargaining is set forth in Chapter 111 of the Wis. Stats. Retirement is set forth in Chapter 40. All public employees fall under Chapter 40. The statute will alter Chapter 40. So, police and fire will be impacted on this topic, even though the are exempted from Chapter 111 changes. 2. The promotion, demotion, discipline, etc. for police and fire are set forth in Section 62.13 of the Wisconsin Statute. Section 62.13 only pertains to police and fire. All other public employees have these items covered by the collective bargaining agreement. Therefore, police and fire are completely different than all other public employees. Even if police and fire were subject to the provision regarding collective bargaining, it really would not matter b/c the "rights" of police and fire are set forth in Section 62.13 of the Wis. Stats. (not Chapter 111). 3. Police and fire units are in the same health care plans as all other public employees. Therefore, the change to the health care plans will impact them, even though they are "exempt" from the Bill. So, there you go. One more point - it has been suggested that the police and fire unions cut a "sweatheart deal" with the Gov. If that was true, why are there so many police and fire units protesting the Bill? Don't you think that, if Gov Walker cut a deal with these unions, he would have included an agreement that they not protest the Bill? |
| 2011-02-21 9:12 AM in reply to: #3364774 |
Elite 3491    In The Peleton | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation.  I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. |
| 2011-02-21 9:34 AM in reply to: #3364874 |
Iron Donkey 38643  , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. |
| 2011-02-21 10:06 AM in reply to: #3364929 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 9:34 AM I should hope thats not how it works. The beginning of the thread was an invite for a discussion and folks have answered that invite. Deleting or freezing it when the majority of the discussion has been informative and civil is moreso an endorsement that opposing opinions arent welcome no matter the content behind them. Isnt that a cop out?PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. |
| 2011-02-21 10:10 AM in reply to: #3365007 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: jszat - 2011-02-21 10:06 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 9:34 AM I should hope thats not how it works. The beginning of the thread was an invite for a discussion and folks have answered that invite. Deleting or freezing it when the majority of the discussion has been informative and civil is moreso an endorsement that opposing opinions arent welcome no matter the content behind them. Isnt that a cop out?PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. Sensei, "I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash." Are people seeing this as not true? |
| 2011-02-21 10:13 AM in reply to: #3365016 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 10:10 AM whats the harm in allowing it to continue for further insights and assessment? sure we might get some rehash but there is also a lot of good info that folks are sharing is alljszat - 2011-02-21 10:06 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 9:34 AM I should hope thats not how it works. The beginning of the thread was an invite for a discussion and folks have answered that invite. Deleting or freezing it when the majority of the discussion has been informative and civil is moreso an endorsement that opposing opinions arent welcome no matter the content behind them. Isnt that a cop out?PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. Sensei, "I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash." Are people seeing this as not true? |
| 2011-02-21 10:16 AM in reply to: #3365028 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: jszat - 2011-02-21 10:13 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 10:10 AM whats the harm in allowing it to continue for further insights and assessment? sure we might get some rehash but there is also a lot of good info that folks are sharing is alljszat - 2011-02-21 10:06 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 9:34 AM I should hope thats not how it works. The beginning of the thread was an invite for a discussion and folks have answered that invite. Deleting or freezing it when the majority of the discussion has been informative and civil is moreso an endorsement that opposing opinions arent welcome no matter the content behind them. Isnt that a cop out?PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. Sensei, "I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash." Are people seeing this as not true? Only, and I mean ONLY, we can have a beer sometime in the future. And Sneaky Pete is invited. Force, well, I'm worried about him right now. |
| 2011-02-21 10:29 AM in reply to: #3365037 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 10:16 AM I am game, but only if you promise not to take my beer away if the conversation isnt going to your liking jszat - 2011-02-21 10:13 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 10:10 AM whats the harm in allowing it to continue for further insights and assessment? sure we might get some rehash but there is also a lot of good info that folks are sharing is alljszat - 2011-02-21 10:06 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 9:34 AM I should hope thats not how it works. The beginning of the thread was an invite for a discussion and folks have answered that invite. Deleting or freezing it when the majority of the discussion has been informative and civil is moreso an endorsement that opposing opinions arent welcome no matter the content behind them. Isnt that a cop out?PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. Sensei, "I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash." Are people seeing this as not true? Only, and I mean ONLY, we can have a beer sometime in the future. And Sneaky Pete is invited. Force, well, I'm worried about him right now. |
| 2011-02-21 10:49 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. |
| 2011-02-21 10:51 AM in reply to: #3365080 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: jszat - 2011-02-21 10:29 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 10:16 AM I am game, but only if you promise not to take my beer away if the conversation isnt going to your liking jszat - 2011-02-21 10:13 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 10:10 AM whats the harm in allowing it to continue for further insights and assessment? sure we might get some rehash but there is also a lot of good info that folks are sharing is alljszat - 2011-02-21 10:06 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 9:34 AM I should hope thats not how it works. The beginning of the thread was an invite for a discussion and folks have answered that invite. Deleting or freezing it when the majority of the discussion has been informative and civil is moreso an endorsement that opposing opinions arent welcome no matter the content behind them. Isnt that a cop out?PeterAK - 2011-02-21 9:12 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-21 8:25 AM JSA - 2011-02-20 12:48 PM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-20 11:53 AM I've been thinking it over and wondering if I should ask the mods to freeze this thread or have it removed, or let it continue on in its civil manner? Tough decision. I know I am new here but -- Why would this thread be frozen or removed??? This has been a great exchange of views and opinions, with quite a bit of useful information included. I'm like the Gov. - because I can and there won't be any negotiation. I have considered to not remove the thread. I am thinking that it is time to freeze this thread, though. I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash. I'm still learning here. If you don't like the thread any more, you don't have to click on it. My thread, Peter. My right. BTW - you just want to post pad. Sensei, "I think we have covered, from both sides, all that we can without the rehash." Are people seeing this as not true? Only, and I mean ONLY, we can have a beer sometime in the future. And Sneaky Pete is invited. Force, well, I'm worried about him right now. But, what if I bought the beer?? |
| 2011-02-21 11:25 AM in reply to: #3364227 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-02-20 5:44 PM TriRSquared - 2011-02-20 4:22 PM CD, (I'm tired of all the quotes, so snip) Seriously? You compare a filibusterer (which requires a person to take the floor and NOT yield it to leaving the state and refusing to even talk to the other side? It's not like the Republicans can even talk to the Dems to try to get them to see their side. It's really quite different and I honestly believe you know that. Yes, I do compare them. And no, I really don't think it's that different. Both are extremely dramatic actions, and serve to disrupt the legislative process to prevent a vote from taking place. Do you disagree that they are dramatic actions, and that the purpose and intent of both actions is to prevent a vote from taking place? As to willingness to discuss, *both* sides have to be willing to discuss, otherwise it's much of a discussion is it? The Dems in this situation do not like that they are going to lose and they are holding the entire state hostage. Again, what if this happened on every vote either side were to lose? How is that a democracy? One could argue that in the face of significant public opposition, the governor's unwillingness to waver from his desire to end collective bargaining, after the unions, the union members, and the opposing senators have conceded to the proposed budget is likewise contributing to the impasse. So why not filibuster then? Why run and hide? Since when do politicians use public opinion to make decisions? If that were the case the federal HC bill never would have passed. Furthermore, nationally more side with the GOv than the unions. http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union Walker ran on a platform of reducing the shortfall in the WI budget. He told the people plainly what we has going to do before he was elected. Now they are surprised when we actually does it? Furthermore the HC and pension costs are only part of the problem. He is mainly concerns about future unfunded costs of wages w/o the CB provision. He has the votes. Why should he back down? Edited by TriRSquared 2011-02-21 11:26 AM |
| 2011-02-21 11:26 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Just wanted to throw one more thing out. People are complaining about having benefits cut. And of course they don't want this. There is one other way that is never mentioned to cut costs. LAYOFFS!!! I know many will say we can't layoff people, but here is my though. I work in the public sector. And there are many people who are just ridding out their time with xxxx. If there was an easy way to lay these people off, we could replace them with maybe 1:3 ratio with hard working persons. This would save a tremendous amount of money. Of course Public Sector doesn't want to increase unemployment, and the abiility to layoff people without looking at seniority is almost impossible. But if we can drastically change the retirement with the stroke of a pen, I can't believe that we can't change hiring/termination policy just as easily. I will say, if they take away or significantly alter our retirement, I will bolt faster that you can blink, and I believe most of the compitant IT staff will follow, leaving the city with no way to function effectively. (There are plenty of IT jobs out there). |
| 2011-02-21 11:47 AM in reply to: #3365131 |
Veteran 355 Lakewood Ranch, Florida | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Yes, i am a NYCity Firefighter for 15 years and i think wisconsin needs to fight the fight so that it does not go from state to state, and it will... We do pay into our pensions and yes, we do pay for our medical coverage just like you do, albeit not as much as you do but we do pay into it. The union is there to help and protect us. They negotiate contracts with the city on our behalf. The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate..So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? thought so... Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? thought not...If we get an increase of 3% which i would be happy with we have to give up vacation days or work an extra shift or pay more to our pension so...how is this a raise ??? it is not !!! when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! |
| 2011-02-21 12:01 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 12:47 PM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Well, there you go then. |
| 2011-02-21 12:05 PM in reply to: #3365271 |
Veteran 355 Lakewood Ranch, Florida | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 1:01 PM Luby162 - 2011-02-21 12:47 PM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Well, there you go then. I guess i should have stopped there but i needed a vent...  |
| 2011-02-21 12:06 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Master 1529 Living in the past | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 11:47 AM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Yes, i am a NYCity Firefighter for 15 years and i think wisconsin needs to fight the fight so that it does not go from state to state, and it will... We do pay into our pensions and yes, we do pay for our medical coverage just like you do, albeit not as much as you do but we do pay into it. The union is there to help and protect us. They negotiate contracts with the city on our behalf. The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate..So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? thought so... Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? thought not...If we get an increase of 3% which i would be happy with we have to give up vacation days or work an extra shift or pay more to our pension so...how is this a raise ??? it is not !!! when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! Where's that dang "ignore" button? |
| 2011-02-21 12:11 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 11:47 AM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Yes, i am a NYCity Firefighter for 15 years and i think wisconsin needs to fight the fight so that it does not go from state to state, and it will... We do pay into our pensions and yes, we do pay for our medical coverage just like you do, albeit not as much as you do but we do pay into it. The union is there to help and protect us. They negotiate contracts with the city on our behalf. The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate..So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? thought so... Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? thought not...If we get an increase of 3% which i would be happy with we have to give up vacation days or work an extra shift or pay more to our pension so...how is this a raise ??? it is not !!! when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! With all due respect - this bill is about public workers in WI and the bill exempts police and fire. Does that change your position in any way? |
| 2011-02-21 12:12 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Expert 1192 Oak Creek, WI | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 11:47 AM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Yes, i am a NYCity Firefighter for 15 years and i think wisconsin needs to fight the fight so that it does not go from state to state, and it will... We do pay into our pensions and yes, we do pay for our medical coverage just like you do, albeit not as much as you do but we do pay into it. The union is there to help and protect us. They negotiate contracts with the city on our behalf. The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate..So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? thought so... Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? thought not...If we get an increase of 3% which i would be happy with we have to give up vacation days or work an extra shift or pay more to our pension so...how is this a raise ??? it is not !!! when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! Steve - I'm sure that I speak for everyone on here when I say 'thank you', and that yes we do value your public service... your job is far more dangerous than mine... however... although I may take a different view on the fiscal policies of our local, state and national govt., i find it extremely offensive that you would bring into question the patriotism of those that do not share your views... I, like many others on here, have served in our country's military... and I, like many others on here, have had many friends who have been killed in combat so that we have the priviledge of sitting here today having this civil and open dialogue... have we forgotten - no... also, you are not alone in the sacrifices you make around compensation and benefits... we all do... keep up the good work... we are all in this together... |
| 2011-02-21 12:18 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Expert 1830 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: One thing I have always wondered about when it comes to Public Employees' Unions: |
| 2011-02-21 12:18 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Champion 18680 Lost in the Luminiferous Aether | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 12:47 PM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Yes, i am a NYCity Firefighter for 15 years and i think wisconsin needs to fight the fight so that it does not go from state to state, and it will... We do pay into our pensions and yes, we do pay for our medical coverage just like you do, albeit not as much as you do but we do pay into it. The union is there to help and protect us. They negotiate contracts with the city on our behalf. The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate..So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? thought so... Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? thought not...If we get an increase of 3% which i would be happy with we have to give up vacation days or work an extra shift or pay more to our pension so...how is this a raise ??? it is not !!! when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! Actually firefighters and cops rank lower than farmers and ranchers on the scale of who gets killed on the job. As well as being lower than construction workers, fishermen, and loggers all private industry. |
| 2011-02-21 12:34 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 11:47 AM So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? I'm sorry...who in this thread has even REMOTELY suggested this?!?!?!?!? Give. Me. A. Break. |
| 2011-02-21 12:36 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 12:47 PM So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. Firstly, thank you for your service. Also I do not believe anyone ever said that police or firefighters were not needed. However if you were to all quit we certainly would have plenty of people who would be willing to take your place for your current wages and benifits. You are not a protected class. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? You are making the same $ as you did in 1996? According to lots of websites NYC FF have gotten pay raises a few times. But even if you have not whose fault is that? If you want a raise and your company is not giving it to you go find a new company. Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? Wait. Do you get an increase or not? You just said no. Now you are saying yes? I'm confused. http://www.ufanyc.org/president_message/jun_07.php quoting form the article..."There are no givebacks in this contract." when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! All of this is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. There are plenty of dangerous private sector jobs. You have a choice, you could get out fo the FF business or perhaps move to a small town where the most dangerous call is rescuing a kitten in a tree. That is your choice. However it does not mean that city workers are somehow exempt from free market movers. When times are tought you have to give something up. WI is trying to get everyone to take a small hit rather than lay off 6,000 + workers. But, as most unions do, they would rather have people lose their jobs than give up a little across the board. Edited by TriRSquared 2011-02-21 12:37 PM |
| 2011-02-21 12:50 PM in reply to: #3362957 |
Champion 4835 Eat Cheese or Die | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-02-19 9:54 AM What would a self employed person need to earn to have the same level of compensation as the average teacher in WI? ie with all the benefits and compensaton included for the teacher what is their annual compensation package. Do teacher in WI work 12 months a year? I thought this thread was a about the state budget. Not "are teachers over paid". Yes, teachers are only teaching 9 months out of the year. But they have mandatory continuing education that is often not paid by the school (their employer) so they are forced to pay for schooling that they must take during their "vacation." The amount of continuing education makes it pretty ridiculous to not earn a masters degree for any teacher entering the profession now. How much do typical masters degree holders get paid? I would bet that it is more then the average salary of teachers. Questioning teacher compensation speaks to the general public's lack of respect for teachers and understanding for how much work good teachers put into teaching. The job isn't 7:30 to 3:30. That is just when they teach. Lesson planning and grading have to take place outside the school day. Continuing education (as mandated by the state's DOE) must take place outside the school day as well. We don't compensate teachers well enough. |
| 2011-02-21 12:52 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 12:47 PM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 11:49 AM I don't want any beer, but I see no reason why the state should not treat their workers like most companies do. I have NEVER received a "cost of living" increase, and I contribute plenty for my benefits. It bothers me to read that pro union protesters are busing in from all over the country. I've never been a fan of unions in the modern era. There was a time and a place, and maybe there still is, but not like they exist today. No employer should be forced to keep a worker or a job that has outlived it's purpose or usefulness. Sorry, I think most of these views are anti city workers and really have no merit. Yes, i am a NYCity Firefighter for 15 years and i think wisconsin needs to fight the fight so that it does not go from state to state, and it will... We do pay into our pensions and yes, we do pay for our medical coverage just like you do, albeit not as much as you do but we do pay into it. The union is there to help and protect us. They negotiate contracts with the city on our behalf. The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate..So, you beleive that cops, Firefighters and teachers are no longer needed and have outlived their usefellness ??? Until the day where a house goes on fire and the kids inside are waiting for someone to come inside and get them or when you are being chased by a gunned madman or want to go and get your kids the best education possible then you will be that it took us too long to respond to the scene.. We do not get cost of living increases we get negotiated contracts... and i have not gotten a raise in 15 years...have you ??? thought so... Every increase we get we have to give something up in exchange, do you ??? thought not...If we get an increase of 3% which i would be happy with we have to give up vacation days or work an extra shift or pay more to our pension so...how is this a raise ??? it is not !!! when i am at work for 24 hrs at a time, barely getting any rest... and, oh yeah i may get killed rescuing your behind.... remind me again how many private sector jobs get killed in the line of duty ?????? and you about us union members sticking together !!! pathetic !!! Nyc firefighters and cops are dying every day from the toxins at the WTC but you say i should pay into my medical coverage just like you do, huh ?? So, i will ask again, how many of your colleagues have died of cancer from work they do on a daily basis that people like you want us to pay for our own medical costs !!!unbeleivable!!! Remember the saying 9/11/01.... never forget... well, america has surely forgotten !!!! So, does this mean that the military should have the right to unionize? Because they face a lot of risks, too, and they don't get things like collective bargaining, or a chance to pick holidays off, or their pension plan amounts. |
| 2011-02-21 12:57 PM in reply to: #3365255 |
Champion 4835 Eat Cheese or Die | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Luby162 - 2011-02-21 11:47 AM The reason our medical coverage is not as expensive as private sector is because we get a group rate, yes 10,000 firefighter and 25,000 cops and 100,000 teachers get a pretty good group rate. My wife worked for a company with 250,000 employees. That is right, 115,000 more employees than your group. She paid less than anyone in private sector that we know. She paid less than with any of the other employers her or I have worked at. It was the best insurance we have had since moving in together after college. She paid more than any public worker I know for health insurance, and it wasn't nearly as good as what my parent's received from my mom's county job. Saying that your coverage is inexpensive because of group rates is ridiculous. I will say, I think you (the collective you... public servants) deserve it. Just don't kid yourself that you get it because of group rates. Edited by graceful_dave 2011-02-21 12:59 PM |
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