Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group (Page 17)

I know it's Tuesday, but when you're retired it's hard to keep track. 

Had a really good 25 mile ride Sunday morning.  It was my longest outside ride of 2017 and my fastest pace in a long time.  I didn't push hard at the start and thought to just have a good, crisp pace.  Towards the end, I started doing the numbers in my head and pushed harder the last 2-3 miles.  Overall this was my fastest pace in a couple of years.  I think the strength training done in prep for skiing (and I've continued this once a week too) definitely contributed.  Too, I've been following "marcag"'s cycling plan as well ... it is tough! 

Swimming etiquette ... I rarely have issues with this at my club.  Most of the time it's me and 1-2 more in the entire pool, so I seldom have issues. Hope all enjoy the rest of the week.

Ciao ... Dorm

Our local pool is only five years old and has up to 10 lanes available (usually less but it varies throughout the day).  At 6:00am today all 10 lanes were full with 4 or more swimmers.  We had 5 in our lane and we all get along very well.  Very minimal passing and I had to slow down a few times to not touch the fellow ahead of me.  Of course it helps we're all swimming the same workout.  If we were all doing different workouts it wouldn't be as easy.

I've been swimming regularly for 5 years and only rarely see any bad etiquette but I think it is good to know the rules for those times when it does happen.

Scott - I think I recall you speaking against hypoxic swimming in the past but I overheard a conversation in the locker room today by a fellow claiming that hypoxic swimming helps a swimmer swim faster.  I didn't get the rationale and I don't like taking more strokes before taking a breath but I do wonder at times that I shouldn't be breathing at every other stroke and also breathing bilaterally.  I don't have a problem breathing in rough conditions in open water even when facing the oncoming waves so I'm not sure how important bilateral breathing would be  to me.

Thanks Kelly ... my race was 2 weeks ago.  Had a blast and finished at about the same time as the 5 previous times I've done this event.

Dorm

I've been following Shane MacLeod’s training plan for cycling.  Marc mentioned this plan in an early post with the group. This is an 12 week plan and I must say it is brutal.  Last year I followed Jorge's 12 week plan in prep for a century ride.  Jorge's plan worked well for me and given the sparsity of my workouts, I did well just to finish the ride.

To me, Shane's plan is another story.  I've been working at it for ~ a month and I must say it's all I can do to hang on and finish the workout. I've even had to peel some percentages back a bit (5% or so) to finish certain ones.  I did a TT early on so I know what my FTP wattage is, and I ride the same bike every time to be consistent.  Today's Sweet Spot training was 1-1/2 hr session and the final 10 minute interval was just plain miserable.

With Marc’s permission, I've attached this via a Word file in case ones here might like to follow.  Note that I've added a wattage matrix to make is easy to know the watts at a given point in the session.  It's a simple Excel matrix so feel free to change to fit your needs.

Ciao ... Dorm

Originally posted by triosaurus I have had a decent week of training - my left knee has been getting better How is everyone doing? Is anyone racing this weekend?

I had reconstructive surgery on my right knee in 1996.  Cycling was one of my main concerns when I started Triathlon 2-1/2 years ago.  The right knee was initially weak and tender but after a few weeks I was able to cycle with out any trouble.  A year later I got a bike fit and new bike and the knee weakness and tenderness was back.  I trained in the bike position I was fit to for about 3 months and had to take things really easy to baby the knee.  Then I went back to by old bike to determine what was different.  I ended up raising the seat about four inches and thing had been better on the knee since then.  This morning I was riding in the rain and when I would go hard I could feel the tenderness in the knee.  So...I hope that left knee doesn't give you any problems. I know how the knee can put a wrench in your plans when it doesn't.

I am going well.  I am about 8 weeks out from my Oly race.  I did a volume building period last week and was feeling it this morning.  I will be focused on building volume for another 3 weeks then I will work on strength for 3 weeks then I will be focusing on race preparation.

First off Curtis ... I'm glad you figured out that somewhere the "bike fit" was off.  4" of adjustment for seat height is huge!!  I can't even begin to describe how huge being off by 4" is.  I assume the seat was too low, which would easily explain the knee soreness.  Getting the seat just right is really tough.  I switched bikes about 2 years ago, and although I'd measured seat dimensions very precisely (within 1/16") , I still had to play with the seat in 1/16" - 1/8" increments to get it right. 

For me the seat height is good when the pedal is at the bottom - 6 o'clock position and pushing with my heel, my leg is almost straight ... almost. 

We're fortunate here to have a very good bike shop - a bike shop that the business focus is triathlons.  As such the staff and the bike fitter take care to measure appropriate angles, lengths, body position fore and aft, reach, et al when fitting someone for a bike.  I don't know what's available to you local, but finding a good fitter who understands the importance of a correct fit is a good find.

Ciao ... Dorm

Adrian ... I'd posted some comments related to you a few days ago.  Take a look at the suggestions.

Ciao ... Dorm

I have never done an Olympic Triathlon before so the target is not well defined at the moment.  

I know a few people in my age group who are going to be at the race but I have never raced against any of them in a triathlon.  One of them did Marathon training with me for two years before I moved to Texas 7 years ago. He was the AG champion at 2hr 15min last year.  The other guy drove an hour to meet me to sell me some race wheels. He was 3rd place in the AG last year at 2hr 24min.  So...my dream is to beat both of them.  I am probably more of a 2 hr 30min triathlete at the movement but we will see how hard the course is.  My last two races were the HITS Marble Falls 70.3 (which everyone said is brutal) and the Ironman St. George 70.3 (which everyone said was brutal), so at a shorter distance and a less challenging course I may do better (or I may not). I still and trying to figure out these triathlons.  

Well...I drove 2 hours to Oklahoma City for my bike fit because they were the best in the area.  I did a GURU bike fit.  The bike fitter was an elite triathlete and was the go to guy in the state, but he didn't ask about my background or previous injuries.  I think if I had good knees the position he put me in would have worked well.  With the knew surgery on the other hand I was just three month of pain when I was bike training.  Moving the seat up was the right move for me.  My knee only has a slight bend when the pedal at the bottom of the crank.  If I need to I can straighten my leg all the way out.

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Hello all!

Thank you to all for the well-wishes and words of encouragement.  It truly helped.

My apologies to everyone for my absence.  I've been so busy trying to get caught up after nearly a week in the hospital I have barely had time to visit the little boys room!

Gonna try to get caught up here in the forum so there may be a rash of posts!

Chris,

Sorry this wasn't answered more timely.

Fins!  That word makes me shudder.  Which comment may give you some insight into my feelings on fins.  I started swimming competitively when I was 11.  I did an estimate once and calculated I have swum over 50-million meters since I started swimming.  Not ONE of those meters was with fins on and I enjoyed a fairly successful swimming career.  In the 47 years since I started swimming and the 34-years since I started coaching, I have recommended to ONE person they invest in a pair of fins and that was because that particular person's ankles were so tight they actually created negative propulsion while kicking.  That athlete would actually go backwards on a kickboard - the fins were to help loosen and stretch the ankles.

I hear the arguments - using fins makes you swim faster, thereby helping you understand what fast swimming feels like.  Great!  Then you take the fins off and you are swimming your actual speed so fat-lotta good the fins did!  In reality, artificially increasing your speed with fins alters the catch and pull, which means you are no longer training effectively.  It's said fins will strengthen your ankles - so will a targeted strength program and the strength program will do it more quickly!

Fins is a somewhat controversial topic.  If you go over to the main forum and ask about fins, the response will largely be in favor of fins.  That's because the majority of the respondents will be type-A personality triathletes that are largely adult onset swimmers.  One trait adult onset swimmers seem to share is the feeling that their way is the right way.  They often aren't interested in any view contrary to their own.  If you go to a swim team workout, you will likely see some fins, although you would also see that they are rarely being used.

I admit, it has been a long time since I hung up my competitive Speedo.  However, to date, nobody had given me a valid reason to use fins.

So, the short answer its, I don't think fins are beneficial.

My humble two-cents.

Again, sorry this wasn't in time for your test.

In training, you should be beginning to get a sense of your STP as most training is based on that.  During a test, you should start at STP and then constantly ask yourself, "Can I go faster? Am I going to fast?"  Those questions should be asked every lap and pace adjusted accordingly.  In a perfect world you build every lap through the test (get just a bit faster).  When you get to the end there should be someone standing there with a fork to put in your side because you're done and have nothing left in the tank.

Hope that helps.

Hey George,

Those are good questions!

To answer the first one, I bolded part of the "fellow's" statement.  Let's think for a moment about a triathlon and specifically the swim leg of a triathlon.  The over-riding goal of a triathlon swim is to stay aerobic.  Aerobic respiration requires oxygen.  Now let's think about a swimmer, swimming a swim meet event.  That swimmer is going to be swimming anaerobically from the first stroke.  The definition of 'anaerobic' is "relating to, involving, or requiring an absence of free oxygen."  The ABSENCE of oxygen.  

Triathletes are NOT swimmers.  Triathletes are primarily interested in using oxygen and the aerobic energy pathway while swimmers are primarily using the anaerobic energy pathways.

Hypoxic training can, according to some, help develop the anaerobic energy pathways.  Unfortunately, that isn't how the anaerobic energy pathways are trained.  In reality, hypoxic training can be dangerous and I personally would strongly recommend against it.

Now on to bi-lateral breathing.  I think bi-lateral breathing is one of the most useful skills you can develop.  However, likely not for the reason you might think.  As I said above, a triathlete is primarily interested in staying aerobic during the swim.  You are already limited in the available oxygen merely because you can't breathe whenever you want.  You are limited by your stroke cycle.  It makes absolutely no sense, when you are already limiting your oxygen supply and you need oxygen to remain aerobic that you would further limit your oxygen supply by breathing less frequently than every stroke.  So, during a race, I believe you should breath every stroke (every right or every left).

Where bi-lateral breathing becomes a great skill is a) in training, and b) on race day in adverse conditions.

By breathing bi-laterally in training you are forcing your stroke to become more symmetrical.  That's a GOOD thing!  You also are becoming comfortable breathing to either side so on race day, when there are terrible conditions, you are good to go.  Imagine this, you are lined up for the swim start.  The course is an out and back going west to the turn around and east coming back..  There is a 20-mph wind coming from the south (left as you go out) kicking up a 2-3 foot wind swell with significant chop and spray.  You can only breathe to the right.  The gun sounds and off you go.  You are doing well until the turn-around when suddenly, all the chop and wind are coming from your right side.  Every time you breathe, you take in a mouth full of water.  However, if you could breathe bi-laterally, it would be no problem.  You'd breathe to the right on the way out, and to the left on the way back.  In so doing, you would have a major advantage over all those triathletes that did not take the time to learn to breathe bi-laterally.

 I think triathletes should learn to breathe bi-laterally even before they learn how to flip turn!

Not nearly as well as I had hoped .  I did finish (and got 2nd in my AG but only because there were only 2 of us!), but it took much longer than I expected and was harder than I thought it would be.  I had run most of the trails that are part of the race in training - except the one that had the biggest hill, of course - so I pretty much knew what I was getting into, but it was tough.  I did alright through the first half, but things kind of fell apart after that.  I did mostly walking for the last 6 miles or so.  It ended up being a pretty warm day (mid 40's at the 7:30a start but up to mid 70's by about 11a, and I don't think I ate or drank enough to sustain me during the 2nd half.  I just felt depleted during those last 6 miles.  But, I'm glad I did it, it was a new experience and if I do another one I'll hopefully be a little more prepared.  

This week will be a bit of a recovery week - I'll do some biking and swimming and just some easy running then start back into serious tri training next week.  I've got a 70.3 to prepare for .  

Hope everyone has a great week!
Janet

I would use the STP that you got from the test.  I know, that's a bit of a mental let-down, you put in all the work and only a second change.  You can console yourself with the thought that you were previously using a best guess STP.   Now you are using an actual STP that you derived from a test.

Hey Kelly,

Doing much better, thanks for asking. 

Yes, I am back to training.  I have a half-marathon in 24-days and I'm starting to think I left the time I was hoping for laying in the hospital bed!  Doing what I can to be ready! 

Hey Janet!

2nd place in your age group!  Good job!  No need to cloud the discussion with talk of how many people were competing in your AG!

Originally posted by adbru Way to go Janet I have never had a second (although I did get a last... lol )

Adbru - There is nothing wrong with a last.  You're still ahead of 90% of the population.  I've been last and 1st and 2nd.  Come to think of it, my "last" and my 2nd were on the same race/ day.  It is more about being out there (for me).  For more inspiration have you seen the video, https://www.youtube.com/v=K_7k3fnxPq0 Danny MacAskill's Wee Day Out.  Some beautiful Scottish scenery and some everyday riding.  I particularly liked his "Aquabike" part.

Janet - I'd just like to add to everyone's comments, congrats on the 2nd.  It is an accomplishment (and, my 1st that I mention above was because I was the only one in my age group).  Sister Madonna told my wife she is hoping to race for another 4 years - when she turns 90.  She doesn't care about winning anything.  And, Have you seen her https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEf7MoQYgzE video?  It's only a minute long.

Scott - If you're out training already - SO glad you didn't have surgery!!  Dodged a full load of bullets there.

I'm just about to go outside and get my bike and gear ready for an Easter "camp".  Four days of riding plus two runs and a swim (and 2 yoga sessions).  I did it last year and it wasn't too intense.  More fun and some social.