McFuzz's Mentor Group 2011 - CLOSED (Page 19)

Thanx  Fuzz.


I'm only a little more worried now...lol.  I have not experienced a Bonk in my short tri career.  I figured that I will have to sit down and work out at plan early this spring and re-work the nutrition after some training.

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm gonna give it a go tomorrow morning for a 45min run at 6am. As you can see it is almost 10 til midnight and I'm still up. Busy night at work and won't be winding down for at least another hour!! Fun times!!

I'm basically gonna just reiterate what Mike said.

Nutrition is all about what YOU can handle. Everyone will be different.  Its gonna take some trial and error but you'll figure it out. 

I'll tell you specifically what I took in during my two big races...
-Ironman 09: 2 snickers bars, Cliff Mojo bar at the start of the run, Peanut Butter and jelly sandwich (on the bike), a cup or two of chicken broth (they give it out on the run), pain killers and copious amounts of water, Gatorade and Gu's.
-1/2 Iron 2010: 1 snickers, 5-7 Gu's,  water and Gatorade

One thing I would definitely look at and change is adding salt tabs. You think you might be getting enough salt from other things, but salt tabs are amazing. Cramped up, took 2 and it took the cramps away fairly quickly. I'm going to add them in my regular race nutrition.

good morning all.. got my am workout in, work, then swim tonight! All have a great day

Good stuff on this thread.

Nutrition is the fourth event in triathlon.  On longer races, get it right or suffer the consequences.  "Right" means what's right for you, I've figured out.  Dean Karnazes the ultra guy does what Fuzz does - eats everything in sight.  He has pineapple pizzas delivered on course, rolls them up and eats them like a burrito.  I could not do that.  The result would be bad.  I've learned that liquid is better for me up to the half IM distance.   I switched to Hammer products mostly...Perpetulum for long distances and Chocolate Rage Gu dissolved in water.   Hammer has a lot of good articles but what Fuzz said is right...250 is about all the body can absorb.  Trying to force more in only leads to trouble.  You will be in a deficit, but hey, that's why they call it endurance.  It's also why they suggest endurance athletes stay at or above 10% body fat - cause that's where the calories come from over the long haul. 

Test what works for you on training rides.  Under normal circumstances water will do for shorter rides under 2-3 hours but do the nutrition thing on 2- 3 hour training rides just to see what works.  Gels?  Gels in water?  Energy drinks? 

Also, don't forget electrolytes.  You need them on longer rides.  I get them from Hammer products.

Do some reading on this here at BT or Hammer or Active.com.  Important stuff. 


Swam with masters today.  Bringing the times down.  Result of weight work,  some stroke work, kicking improvements from using flippers for drills.  Whoot!  Treatmill last night with weights and yoga.  Rough intervals on the Computrainer tonight.  All good.




.   

Random questions after my first 'hard' HIM training session:

My plan gives me the workout in both time and distance.  So far I've come up short on the distance.  For example this moring was 1:40 training ride/26 miles...I managed to do 23.5 in 1:40.  My run was 31 minutes/3.1 miles...I managed 2.6 miles.  Should I go by time or distance?

Will my butt get used to the saddle?  Like does it toughen up?  1:20 into the workout and it was seriously sore!!!

I consider myself in pretty darn good shape, but this workout was really tough.  After I finished I thought to myself "I don't know if I can do this..."  Is that normal?  I feel good now...but right after I was about in tears.

On longer rides should the majority of time be in zone 2?  That's where I was most of the time with occassional jumps into zone 3.  Same thing on the run.  Is this correct?

Thanks for any answers, suggestions, etc!!!

Oh and awesome job McFuzz and Iceman! 

very true. nutrition is the 4th element in Tri as the distances get longer.  i found out what it was like to run on empty at mile 8 during my HIM run, getting a little light headed and veered off the road briefly.  i snagged a coke at the next aid station and almost immediately felt better but it still wasnt enough.  i chuckled to myself about it because i never felt that way before in training, only heard about it happening to others.  my experience was very mild, i've seen and heard worse.

Its weird they give you both time and distance. I would go by time. That's how I've always trained. The distance/endurance will come with more training, but stick to time. It sounds better too on the days you don't feel like training to say "I have to go run for an hour and a half" than "I have to go run 10 freakin miles."

Ahh, gotta love saddles!! You will "get used" to it being sore lol. You can try and find a more comfortable saddle but, from my experiences (I've tried about 5 different saddles), there will always be some discomfort after extended rides.

You will always have some doubt, but you gotta fight through it. Like you said this was the first "hard" workout. It will get easier and your body will adjust. Just stay positive and don't get down on yourself.

Zone 2 is typically a good place to stay. I've read from a couple sources, which I can't seem to find right now of course, that you should avoid training in zone 3. Zone 2 is when you see big improvements. It increases the ability of your heart to pump blood and your muscles to utilize the oxygen in the blood. 
        -I trained in zone 2 for pretty much my whole Ironman training. I saw substantial increases in distances. At the beginning I was running for 45min and would do less than 5 miles. By the end I was over 6 miles while maintaining the same HR I had when only doing 5 miles.

Hope that helps!

this is just my own personal thought process(i am no pro, nor anything well-seasoned), others are welcome to disagree wtih me, but if it were me i would just be focused on getting in the alotted time and not care too much about the distance.  you were pretty close to what the program called for anyway.  i think that the more your training progresses, you will see your distances start to match or exceed what is specified in the program.
same thing with your butt on the saddle for the trainer rides.  i went 1.5 hours last night and i was starting to go crazy at about 70 minutes.  i get discomfort, partly because a trainer ride im in a static position for the duration of the ride.  unlike outside, your jockeying around as you take a turn, lift off the saddle to go over a rough section of road, go up an incline, things like that. the trainer, your sitting in that same position non-stop.  it will get better though. just give it some more time and some more miles, but if you're still struggling with it in another month or so, or even when out on the road, maybe look into your positioning/fit on the bike.
your thoughts are normal, yes.  its your first HIM!!!  its a large undertaking to be adequately trained for one!   the good thing is that you say you are in good shape, so i think this will all fall into place for you.  give yourself some time to adjust! 
on your long rides, i think you are right with staying in the lower zones.  you'll be able to get good feedback from your body as to whether or not you can bump up your speed at all and not fall apart from it.  keep in mind LSD (long slow distance) in your training.  my training runs last summer before my HIM were all mid-8 min/miles, about a minute slower per mile than my usual training pace.  (although Savageman destroyed my legs and i ran a 10:39 mile avg)
i didnt follow a plan, i only trained and worked up to the distances and then tried to get faster. so my advice is only what i know/did.  hopefully some of this sounds......reasonable???
as always, your times may vary!

Yes, it will toughen up.  When I first started riding, an hour was long enough, and 2 hours was excruciating.  A few months later, 2-3 hours was nothing.  That was 2006. 




I'd say you're in pretty good shape.  You could provide photographic evidence just to confirm that though!  

As for the "I don't know if I can do this..." feeling, *that* is normal, so don't worry too much that you were almost in tears.  Again, it'll get better as your body adapts to the increased training load.  You *just* started HIM training and there's a reason it's 20-25 weeks long. 



That's the common training philosophy.  There are some training plans that put you in Z3 alot on the theory that you'll adapt more quickly to functioning in that zone if you train there.  Can't say whether they're right or not.  From what I've read, the Z2/Z4 is better overall if you've got hours and hours and hours to spend training (i.e. a professional athlete).  For recreational athletes balancing work, family commitments, and training, we'll be physiologically sub-optimal and so there may not be as much difference between training in Z3 or avoiding it.  (I'm OK with that.)  Look a day ahead in the training calendar, and if it calls for a Time-Trial ride or tempo run, make the current effort easy enough that you can do the Z4-5 stuff tomorrow.  That might be Z1/Z2 and it might be Z3...



Thanks for the help here!  I highlighted the part I was going to say myself. 

As to the OP about time or distance...it can be your call.  Beware always coming up 20% short of the distance though, because the courses are usually laid out by distance, not time.  By the time your race comes around, you'll want to have ridden 50-60 miles a few times (hopefully, with terrain and conditions similar to what you'd expect for the race).  If your longest 3-hour rides are 42-45 miles, the last 10 miles on the bike will be tough.  You may need to stretch some 3-hour rides into 4-hour rides if that's what it takes to get 60 miles. 

Hey All,

Heading out for Orlando this afternoon where Walt Disney World Marathon weekend awaits!  Wish me luck.  This is the most running I've ever planned for one single weekend!  My hope is to finish strong and if it feels right get under 4 hrs on the marathon.  I'll be happy just to fhish that darn thing though.

Enjoy your day!

Good Luck and Have fun.  Sounds like a great time.  I'm sure you will do fine

Welcome to Orlando!  I ran Disney the last 2 years, it's a nice race.  It's pretty crowded, so I hope you are in one of the early corrals otherwise you may be spending a lot of time weaving around others
You will also see a lot of people stopping to take pictures with the various characters - they will even be a line in front of Cinderella's castle for official photos!  It's quite the different marathon.
Are you one of the crazy people running Goofy?
Looks like you'll have perfect running weather, so good luck and have fun.

Ann-Marie

Yeah!  I am now officially caugt up on all the posts! McFuzz and Iceman awesome job on the weightloss (those pics are motivating to see).

I got in an hour pool swim and 30 minute abs/stretching workout in today. Lower back is in some pain hopefully it was from all of the driving lately (Austin, TX to Laramie, WY in 2 days). Will keep up with the ibuprofen and stretching and hope it is temporary.

Good luck and HAVE FUN! - can't wait to read your RR.

Goooood luck and say hey to Mickey!

Good luck and enjoy your weekend.

REE! fantastic!!! i'm so happy for you!

Edited by stephsprint 2011-01-04 1:46 PM

She sounds like a GREAT partner! you are lucky!

Good Luck! Kick some butt! Most importantly, have fun!!!

Enrique- KICK @SS!! You can do it!!!! hahah... no seriously you'll be great

Good luck on the marathon!  I've never been, I wanna go! 

Get in as tight a fetal position as possible and he can try and fit you in a suitecase. Unless he's taking Southwest be ready to bend over for the bag fees though lol