Fred D and Queen Zipp's SWIM, BIKE RUN consistency thread.... CLOSED (Page 19)

Makes total sense, but I hope you can find away to hang on.  I think of someone like Natascha Badman and her impressive finishes despite no longer winning things like Kona.  That smile on her face is a true inspiration to me as I hit 50 in a few months.  How does she do it year over year? or are pros just different?

There are certainly other ways to raise the bar and change the framework.   My first tri coach was also quite competent (not as fast as you) and he changed the "OH WOW" factor by finishing two IMs within two weeks of each other and PRing the second.  That was his way of getting over the fact he wasn't nearly as fast as he wanted to be given time constraints.  WHat about finishing one of the hardest races ever, Norseman?  Certainly things that provide the "HE DID THAT?" factor IMO.

Triathlon/distance running seems to attract type-A people

Well said, Kristen.  That may be a big part of burn out....and your second thought about injury being the physical result of burn our....likely.  This is a demanding sport to train for.  Some people are gifted in all of the sports, others are really FOP in one area and "live through" the rest of the course.  Some of us may be BOP across the board but just like a good party .  

I know my swim is BOP, I have seen some improvements....definitely have better form over a year or so ago......but can't improve my speed all that much.  I have the potential to be a much faster cyclist than some of my races have shown, but don't always get enough ride time.  My run is the front of MOP.....I'm okay with that.  While I would LOVE to have a faster run, I know that the potential to re injure the gastrocs will  a factor in my head and I couldn't go back to the lengthy PT rehab I had before.  I was MISERABLE for the 9-10 months of no running.  Those of yo who have been my friends through that injury can attest to that fact!  

Anyway...back to Type A personality....we as type A's like to control things (ie our diet, our training schedule) and when things happen on race day to mess with our agenda/ plans it can be hard to regroup on the fly which causes people to say "Why am I doing this?"  It's a hard thing to readjust on the fly, but it's part of the learning curve for life in my experience.

I'm going to write one big rambling post touching on a bunch of stuff.

Neti pots - have never tried one, and no desire to.  I have a fit if I get water in my nose in the pool so can't see purposely pouring water into my nostrils.

Sleep... not a problem for me.  If anything I sleep too much.

Tri bikes - I can't justify one for myself at this time but if I was in the market I love love the QR bikes.  Got an interesting email from our LBS the other day stating he's dropping the Cervelo line due to poor service from the company.  Maybe he'll pick up QR, nobody sells them around here.

All the swimming talk lately had me out looking at pools the last couple days. I miss swimming and haven't been since my previous gym/pool went bankrupt and closed last spring.

Re: Tri burnout.  I think we see a couple things here on BT - people who find the site, use it to gain info, get into triathlon but lose interest in the forums and stop posting, maybe continue to use the logs/other stuff on the site.
-people who get very into the social aspect of the forums/inspires etc. and stay on BT even after moving on from the sport.
-people who lurk, but seldom post and stick around the sport and the site for years
-people who come to the site, do a couple seasons then start a family and leave the sport
-time limited people who stay in the sport but limit the time they spend on internet forums.
This all addresses more the forum burnout than the actual sport burnout.

Confidence - I've only done up to HIM distance but never doubted my ability to finish the race.  I am very much BOP and ok with that but I don't want to be last.  I was second last in a HM once and didn't like it.  I tend to do bigger races so I know I won't be last.

Re: competitiveness.  I am not type-A, most definately a laid back type-B.   I have a hard time following a training plan as I prefer to wing it, training more according to the weather ie. if it's nice out I'd rather do a long bike than the short run I'm 'supposed' to do.  I hate the trainer (in particular my trainer) so avoiding the bike in the winter, even though I know that will not help me when the season comes along.  I would never feel guilty for missing a workout as I've seen people state here.  Not the best way to train for performance but when I did race it got me to the finish. 

I'm loving the discussion about competitiveness, but I keep formulating thoughts and then as I read on I find that someone else has got there first.

I've always thought of myself as "not competitive", but as has already been said, I think really what I meant was I'm not out to "win".  Mostly that's because I've never had any chance of winning, at least at sports, and so I chose sports that were more about personal achievement than who comes top.  And I think that's the way I view triathlon.  But I'm definitely competitive in other aspects of my life.  The fact that I came 2nd in my year for my degree was a massive source of pride, and I've always tried to do well professionally.  Possibly the hardest thing I've ever had to do was admit that I wasn't succeeding in my PhD and quit after 3.5 years.  However, that also turned out to be one of the better decisions in my life that led to bigger and better things.

In triathlon the only person I really compete with directly is my husband, and that only came about because he came out with the amazing line "there cannot be a world where you are faster than me" after I'd beaten him in both races in our first year of triathlon.  He then specified that he hadn't been trying, but that the following year once he'd started training properly he'd definitely beat me.  As a result of this we have a (friendly) competition ongoing.  Fortunately for our marital harmony we are reasonably well matched, and so it swings back and forth depending on how the day goes etc.  But I still "compete" with the people around me.  I look at where I've come in the rankings for my age group etc.

In terms of coping with being less able to compete at the top, I also think it must be harder having to accept a decline in performance if you've been used to having it.  As with my academic studies, having been successful for so long it was very difficult to accept a lack of success.  I don't really have any suggestions for dealing with it, other than realising that at some point it's inevitable.

On a training note - today I have skipped my planned turbo session.  I woke up with a stuffy nose, sore throat and general fatigue.  It's been a hard day at work.  We're also getting more snow, so depending on how I feel tomorrow I'll probably pick up the turbo session instead of trying to run.

I decided to spin on the rollers while watching the first 1/2 of the Niners game.  Good ride, rough first quarter!

I do find I need to get of the bike for a quick break every 15 minutes or so or else I start to get a bit of sleepy peepy (for lack of a better term...).  I cannot stand while on the rollers which makes it difficult to adjust my position, I never have this problem when outside on the road.  In my mind I am justifying it as simulating a downhill on the road. 

I'm going for a run later, but don't think this counts as a brick since there will be about 2 hours between the bike and run.  

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

david.

First -- Thanks to all of you for your insight and thoughts!  It is GREATLY appreciated.   I also think the article Suzy put up was good food for thought, and wise in its assesments.

Of all the responses so far, I think this one I'm quoting fits me the best.    Back a few years when I was in shape and racing well, I found myself on the AG podium several times, and I regularly placed in the top 25% or so, even in the 'Big' races.   Now, I'm really struggling to get back in shape, and my times well... let's just say that they can use improvement.  

Before I got serious about triathlon, even after successfully completing 5 marathons, I had a very difficult time using the word 'Athlete' or 'Athletic' to define myself.   I definately fell into the crowd of "Athletic Supporters" as described in the film 'Grease'.   Then I got going into Triathlon, and started feeling success, and actually could use the word Athlete to describe me -- even if the majority of my events were simply sprint races.

Where I'm struggling now is with confidence to be that way again.  Yes, I'm definately a Type-A, and definately have a competitive streak in me.   It's just that now I'm scared to enter the race so to speak.  And so I debate, should I, should I not, am I physically ready, am I not.   So I spend too much time second guessing myself, rather than just doing it.   That's the challenge I'm dealing with.  I need to find a way to overcome that challenge.   I agree that small steps, focus areas, etc. all are good ways to move in that direction.  I just need something to help me get my confidence back.

I think it was Fred who pointed out the social part of this whole thing.   For me, training is very much a social outlet for me.  One of my challenges now on that front, is my training buddies are not consistent, or are now working on levels far ahead of mine.   I can accept that, and that's one of the reasons I was so excited to get invited to join this group.  Perhaps it would help fill in the social gap -- via computer screen.   Thank you all for that.  Your candor in sharing thoughts on this question of "CONFIDENCE" is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for listening to my 'ramblings'

Question about cramping:   In the past I've had trouble with my feet cramping when swimming, with calf cramps when running (mostly in races) and quad cramping on the bike at Muskoka 70.3.   I attribute all of it to lack of fitness.

Today I did a short 22 min treadmill run in the morning, stretched afterwards (leg stretching), no problems during the run or immediately after.  But now 6+ hours later I'm having painful muscle cramps along the sides of my torso and in my hands.  I do think I have excessive upper body movement when I run, which I need to work on - could this be causing the cramping I'm having now?  It's just weird.  (I've had the torso cramps before but not sure if it was on days I ran, I'll need to track this)

I've never had cramps in my legs in the run other than the one that took me down for close to 10 months when I tore the gastrocs.  It felt like a BAD charlie horse and I was running at a light pace. Problem was, I could not put weight on my leg.  I babied it for several weeks and did no running.....kept biking cause that didn't hurt.  Then one morning I took one full weight bearing step on waking up and felt that puppy shred.  

If you are cramping that long post run though, I would wonder if you are under hydrated or losing more electrolytes than you think in your sweat.  You are running on a treadmill, inside so it is going to be warmer for that factor....less air flow.  Keep a water bottle on the tready and take a sip as needed.  Even at 22 min you get thirst....no matter the speed.  Maybe have a small orange or piece of banana post run when you recover?

Where I'm struggling now is with confidence to be that way again. 

Brett,

Confidence has to start by believing in yourself.  It's a boost to confidence when you finish a tough training day and realize "hey. I just ran this same route last week and I felt better today" ......even if your time was not substantially different/ slower even.  Speed is not the confidence builder (though it is a nice ego boost).  Knowing I have done something and can "master" it in terms of breaking down the steps to do it and just doing it build the confidence.  

Sign up for a race you have done before.  Don't compare the splits this year from 2 or 3 years ago when you may have been in better shape.  THIS is where you are NOW.  Be in the moment NOW and work toward where you want to get to.

Keep training with your buddies.   But do it on the hard days when you want the push to go faster.  Do your easier days at your pace, pushing where you can but taking it as the body allows that day.  It's one of the Coach Troy-isms from a Spinerval that he says something about too many athletes go too easy on hard days and too hard on easy days.  Know the purpose of that days work out.  If it says intervals, you know it means to be a short and hard day....something totally different from "run/ bike XX minutes in Z2" which most of us feel like barely elevates the HR.

Where I'm struggling now is with confidence to be that way again. 

Brett,

Confidence has to start by believing in yourself.  It's a boost to confidence when you finish a tough training day and realize "hey. I just ran this same route last week and I felt better today" ......even if your time was not substantially different/ slower even.  Speed is not the confidence builder (though it is a nice ego boost).  Knowing I have done something and can "master" it in terms of breaking down the steps to do it and just doing it build the confidence.  

Sign up for a race you have done before.  Don't compare the splits this year from 2 or 3 years ago when you may have been in better shape.  THIS is where you are NOW.  Be in the moment NOW and work toward where you want to get to.

Keep training with your buddies.   But do it on the hard days when you want the push to go faster.  Do your easier days at your pace, pushing where you can but taking it as the body allows that day.  It's one of the Coach Troy-isms from a Spinerval that he says something about too many athletes go too easy on hard days and too hard on easy days.  Know the purpose of that days work out.  If it says intervals, you know it means to be a short and hard day....something totally different from "run/ bike XX minutes in Z2" which most of us feel like barely elevates the HR.

Good stuff here.  I was mostly locked away at the RRCA training, and then driving home.

I used to have horrible calf cramps in the swim, but they seem to have gone away.  (I know, I know, you can't cramp during the swim if you don't swim....)  It just seemed to be a matter of time for me.

Interesting stuff about competitiveness.  We talked about this at RRCA, and especially about the various ways in which people might be competitive, or the ways in which competitiveness might manifest itself.  The group seemed to come to a view more or less similar to Fred's original statements.  It's funny -- I find that my own competitiveness manifests in different ways depending on what I'm doing.  So, in tri, for whatever reason, I want to win AG< or masters, or OA, or whatever.  Maybe just because I've actually managed to do those things in the past, and as Suzy said, so now I expect it of myself because I don't want to 'go downhill'.  In running, my goals are more time-related.  I have definite time goals I'd like to hit, especially in a half marathon and to some extent in 5K.  And again, they are faster than what I've done.

I think maybe for me these goals and expectations have something to do with the idea that I want to make progress, and right now, that's how I'm defining progress.  I suppose that longevity in the sport past the point where those forms of progress are feasible is going to depend on finding other ways to define progress.

Morning All!

Got my intervals in this morning......I'm taking my daughter, her best friend and another friend to Longwood University for a tour this afternoon.  Won't be around much.

Set your goal for the day and get out there to accomplish it the best you can!

Thanks all for good feedback!   It's good to hear tips from fellow BT'ers on how to deal with various challenges!

Want to know a way to insure a good swim workout(Although I don't recommend it).  Walk into your garage to find it raining!   In the garage!   UGH.   Toilet in bathroom over garage overflowed during the night, and no one reported to mom and dad that there was an issue!   FRUSTRATION.

Well got it cleaned up, and needed to to get a workout in, and was very frustrated, and was trying not to get upset with the Exhibit in Question.

Long story short, I jumped into the pool and simply SWAM, HARD.   1500 yards nonstop.   Best pace at that distance in a long time at 2:06/100!  

Not a recommended way to get a great workout, but I'll take it -- for now.   We were very lucky that the bathroom in question was over the garage, and not the one over the master bedroom and family room!!

found this today:

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Hey everyone!  Hope all had a good weekend and those of us that got MLK day off are enjoying the rest and remembering MLKJR today.  

I agree with Fred 100% on his post about competitiveness.  I find that I'm super competitive.  This may not resonate with my earlier post about chasing podium at races, but I find it manifests itself with being competitive with myself.  Beating my times, my goals, my numbers etc.  It really drives me.

I got in a 2 hour brick yesterday.  I'm toying with the idea of signing up for IM Louisville and will make a decision by end of month (if the race doesn't sell out first).  Wife is actually the one that is telling me to go for it this year.

Today will probably be my first day of missed training or activity in 2013 unless the switch flips in the next couple of hours.  Terrible night's sleep last night and I definitely have a cold of some sort.  Just going to hole up and relax for the rest of the day after taking the family downtown for breakfast and a visit to the Natural History Museum.  Nap time

Jeremy--that's some exciting news!  Pretty sure IM LOU stays open for a long time.  I think the swim and temps scare some people away.

Speaking of temps, I got my first -24F WC run in today.  With 29mph WNW winds, I had a very hard time breathing in the cold air. Literally took my breathe away.  Looks like we have one more day of this stuff to live through before we pass it along to the East Coast

To borrow and slightly tweak an old proverb... The best time to run was 9 hours ago.  The second best time is right now.  I'm off to the damn treadmill.

david.