We need more people like this professor (Page 2)

GLC1968 - 2010-11-18 8:19 PM I'd like to know a little more about this 'test bank' that the professor is talking about.

While I agree that cheating is wrong and the students who did it should be punished (whether they admit to it or not), this 'test bank' sounds suspiciously like something we used to see at my school except in a more official capacity.  And for the record, I'm talking about another school in the Florida state system...so I'm sure there are many similiarities.

When I was in school for engineering, there was a HUGE 'database' (for lack of a better word - repository, perhaps?)  of about a billion (yes, I'm exagerating) test problems that any student could get access to.  These problems were organized by subject/course.  Most of the problems came from past exams, but plenty also came from homework assignements and the textbooks we used.  We would work these problems in prep for exams all the time.  The professors would then use the same problems (or similiar ones) but with changed numbers or slightly changed variables, in the exams.  In one incident, a professor didn't bother to change any of the numbers from a previous exam so we all knew exactly what the answer should be.  Now, in our case, these were long, drawn-out engineering problems, so just knowing the answer wouldn't even get you half credit, you had to show your work.  But it was a system that most of the professors used and most of the students accepted.  I never felt like it was cheating because it's not like we had the exact test or memorized answers or anything.  In fact, some professors intentionally shared their old tests so that the students had more problems to practice on.

I always thought that resuing old questions was a cop-out on the part of the instructors.  The professors for whom I had the most respect were the ones who wrote original tests each time.  These tests that challenged my ability to think critically and not just my ability to solve problems like those we'd done in class or for homework. 

If this 'test bank' he is talking about is a similar piece of work, I think it's FANTASTIC that it's been wiped clean (as he said) and that the professors will now be writing all new questions.  Honestly, I know it's a lot of work, but that's how it should be.  Perhaps these cheating students have now taught these teachers a lesson?

Malgal - 2010-11-18 5:33 PM  In many colleges, testing is a means to assess students, not to teach students what they don't know.  Acquiring secure test banks is cheating, pure and simple.  It means that someone went out of their way to do something they knew was wrong.

GLC1968 - 2010-11-19 12:09 PM

I never suggested that a test TEACH us something but in my (albeit, somewhat rosy colored) mind, a test shouldn't be about whether or not a student can memorize something but about whether or not a student has actually learned anything.  In my field (engineering), memorization is 100% useless.  Students need to learn how to solve problems and think critically. If a test doesn't test that, then it doesn't truly test what the student has learned.  I accept that this might be different by discipline and I'm just expressing my opinion about my field and my experience in it.  (And I'd like to mention again that I went to a school in the same system as the one in the video and from his repeated reference to a capstone project, my guess is that the field is also similiar - but I could be wrong, of course)

Anyway, as I said above, if the students knew that getting a hold of the test bank questions was wrong (and the fact that some of them have already come forward means that they did), then they cheated and absolutely should be punished.

UWMadTri - 2010-11-19 1:52 PM No, we do NOT need more people like this professor. We need someone that would summarily dismiss every single one of the students involved.

However, they can't do that, because the professor will NOT be able to determine the exact students that cheated. He states that by using statistical measurements (confidence intervals) he will be able to find out who the students are. Really?! Has he invented a new form of statistics that gives you a 100% certainty with no probability of error? If that's the case, he needs to be awarded a Nobel Prize.

Essentially, he will be able to make educated guesses about a large group of students, but he cannot determine the specific students within that group. Hence, the "deal." If I am wrong and they are able to determine exactly who cheated, this university should be embarrassed. Cheating=immediate expulsion, no questions asked. I would not send my children to a university that gave you a slap on the wrist for cheating of this magnitude.