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2012-09-20 12:25 PM
in reply to: #4420557

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
spudone - 2012-09-20 1:10 PM
trinnas - 2012-09-20 9:23 AM
spudone - 2012-09-20 12:14 PM

I am so sick and tired of the emotional arguments that have nothing to do with fiscal reality.

Like trickle-down economics?  Heh.

Versus Kenysian Stimulus and Government multipliers voodoo?

 

 

Actually I prefer those arguments (actually based on economic theory) to the "He/They are just mean and want to let puppies and small helpless children die" arguments.  You can debate the merits and methodologies of the laffer curve or wealth effects.  You cannot rationally debate "He is just a meany".

I think even beyond that, both parties and their voters get irrational about anything regarding veterans (and I am one).  Objectively evaluating a veterans' program and critiquing it is one step away from getting yourself voted out of office.  Which is why I'm sort of surprised this didn't pass.

It was a tactical move by the Democrats because it forced the Republicans into a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation.  Both parties play games like this all the time.

I agree on both counts.

Making something sacrosanct because it is titled veterans, teachers, fireman, or police,  etc. is a ridiculous way to govern but it is based on gut emotional reaction not on rational thought.



2012-09-20 12:41 PM
in reply to: #4420029

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
“This violates the Budget Control Act, there is no dispute about it,” Sessions said in a floor speech Wednesday. “The bill will not even go through the House and it violates the Constitution because it says revenue bills must be started in the House ... [and] this is a revenue bill.”

Instead of achieving Obama’s objective of creating career paths for returning veterans, Burr said the Democratic proposal would “create 20,000 temporary jobs.” He said he would offer an amendment that would work within federal agencies to create incentives for hiring veterans.

If Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, doesn’t allow amendments, “then we know this is purely political,” Burr said.
2012-09-20 12:45 PM
in reply to: #4420563

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
tuwood - 2012-09-20 11:12 AM
tri_bob - 2012-09-20 9:30 AM

???Mitch McConnell on 10/23/2010: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

I'd suggest that there are any number of things that the Senate minority leader might have considered to be the "single most important thing" to achieve. Some of these things:

  • Foster creation of jobs
  • Bring troops home
  • Address glaring public education needs
  • (Genuinely) address public debt
  • [Feel free to add your own]

Instead, congressional Republicans have spent their time opposing just about everything proposed by the President or congressional Democrats, even about things they would otherwise support. House Republicans have held over 30 votes to repeal the ACA (aka, "Obamacare"). Say what you will about ACA, taking that much limited time in an admittedly futile exercise is idiotic. Do it once, maybe even twice, to establish that they think it's a bad idea: fine. Keep doing it, and they're admitting they have no ideas. Their collective temper tantrum has lasted almost two years, and it's not helping.

The current problem is congressional Republicans. It really is.

I hope you were equally as outraged when the Dems blocked everything Bush tried to push through.

As for the bill at hand, "would have spent $1 billion over five years".  That's enough for me to oppose it.  WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, no matter how good or bad it is.  So I guess I hate our veterans too which sucks because I'm a veteran myself.

The biggest problem in Washington is a total utter and complete lack of leadership.  The Democrats block everything the Republicans pass and the Republicans block everything the Democrats pass and they both just sit and point fingers at each other.  If we had strong leadership who actually reached out and worked with both sides to find compromises then compromises could be passed.  What we have is a president who refuses to even talk to the opposing party and simply rams legislation through with zero support from the other side.  The ACA is a perfect example of that.  With no bipartisan support and using technicalities to ram it through there's no way it won't just get repealed when the R's get back in power.

Just remember, compromise is a two way street.  The Dem's can't whine all day long about the Repub's not compromising when they aren't willing to compromise either.

To be honest, I kind of like all the gridlock in congress because it keeps them from spending more money.  

Technically the Republican's have been more obstructionist than any congress ever before. Each successive congress gets worse though, so each one becomes the worst. 

Again, Vote for Gary Johnson.

2012-09-20 12:46 PM
in reply to: #4420029

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?

We should all be thankful for gridlock in the legislature.   The 2 party system is a great way to put the breaks on the damage that both parties can inflict if given the time and resources to do so.   I always say the only reason Florida is not in as much trouble as it could be (debt wise) is because we have a part-time legislature and by pure default, there is less time to vote and pass unnecessary legislation that adds to the defecit.    

2012-09-20 1:06 PM
in reply to: #4420438

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
trinnas - 2012-09-20 11:23 AM
spudone - 2012-09-20 12:14 PM

I am so sick and tired of the emotional arguments that have nothing to do with fiscal reality.

Like trickle-down economics?  Heh.

Versus Kenysian Stimulus and Government multipliers voodoo?

 

 

Actually I prefer those arguments (actually based on economic theory) to the "He/They are just mean and want to let puppies and small helpless children die" arguments.  You can debate the merits and methodologies of the laffer curve or wealth effects.  You cannot rationally debate "He is just a meany".

There are very, very few people who can debate the merits and methodologies of the laffer curve.  But it's soooo easy to realize that Romney hates puppies and straps them to the roof of his car for sh1ts and giggles.  Or that Obama is a Muslim communist who is trying to destroy America.

2012-09-20 1:09 PM
in reply to: #4420029

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?

Then how about we as a people go and figure out a way to get rid of the unlimited  terms a person in the House of Representatives or the Senate can actually have.  Make them a maximum of 2 - 4 year terms, so that the "good old boy" network goes away.  Get rid of their "retirement" package and make them invest in a 401k program.  That way after someone works for a maximum of 8 years, they have to move to the private sector and they may actually work harder for making things better.

That will never happen, and I was going to do the entire thing in the <font>SARCASTIC</font> .  But, I am really not being sarcastic, I just know that it will never happen.

 

I really don't like either option for President and honestly right now don't know that I will vote for either at election time.

 

 

 

 

 



2012-09-20 1:14 PM
in reply to: #4420072

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?

mehaner - 2012-09-20 9:59 AM the title of this thread is misleading.  the GOP doesn't hate vets, they hate anything that might make them look like they agree with Obama.  our political system is beyond broken.

This. The Republican's priority since 2008 has been to try to block anything that Obama does - so even when he takes a republican idea for health care, they attempt to block it and call it "Obama-care".

Frankly, the party today looks like a bunch of 2 year old, saying "no" to whatever is put before them, because to say "yes" would somehow imply a loss of autonomy. The party has taken away all incentives for moderates to be in the party, which is a shame. They all end up pandering to the worst excesses of their own party, making them look like the Democrats of the early 1970's.

2012-09-20 1:20 PM
in reply to: #4420677

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
gearboy - 2012-09-20 2:14 PM

mehaner - 2012-09-20 9:59 AM the title of this thread is misleading.  the GOP doesn't hate vets, they hate anything that might make them look like they agree with Obama.  our political system is beyond broken.

This. The Republican's priority since 2008 has been to try to block anything that Obama does - so even when he takes a republican idea for health care, they attempt to block it and call it "Obama-care".

Frankly, the party today looks like a bunch of 2 year old, saying "no" to whatever is put before them, because to say "yes" would somehow imply a loss of autonomy. The party has taken away all incentives for moderates to be in the party, which is a shame. They all end up pandering to the worst excesses of their own party, making them look like the Democrats of the early 1970's.

According to one version of past events that is.

2012-09-20 2:07 PM
in reply to: #4420683

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
trinnas - 2012-09-20 2:20 PM
gearboy - 2012-09-20 2:14 PM

mehaner - 2012-09-20 9:59 AM the title of this thread is misleading.  the GOP doesn't hate vets, they hate anything that might make them look like they agree with Obama.  our political system is beyond broken.

This. The Republican's priority since 2008 has been to try to block anything that Obama does - so even when he takes a republican idea for health care, they attempt to block it and call it "Obama-care".

Frankly, the party today looks like a bunch of 2 year old, saying "no" to whatever is put before them, because to say "yes" would somehow imply a loss of autonomy. The party has taken away all incentives for moderates to be in the party, which is a shame. They all end up pandering to the worst excesses of their own party, making them look like the Democrats of the early 1970's.

According to one version of past events that is.

Well, like Stephen Colbert once said, reality has a liberal bias.

2012-09-20 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4420764

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
gearboy - 2012-09-20 3:07 PM
trinnas - 2012-09-20 2:20 PM
gearboy - 2012-09-20 2:14 PM

mehaner - 2012-09-20 9:59 AM the title of this thread is misleading.  the GOP doesn't hate vets, they hate anything that might make them look like they agree with Obama.  our political system is beyond broken.

This. The Republican's priority since 2008 has been to try to block anything that Obama does - so even when he takes a republican idea for health care, they attempt to block it and call it "Obama-care".

Frankly, the party today looks like a bunch of 2 year old, saying "no" to whatever is put before them, because to say "yes" would somehow imply a loss of autonomy. The party has taken away all incentives for moderates to be in the party, which is a shame. They all end up pandering to the worst excesses of their own party, making them look like the Democrats of the early 1970's.

According to one version of past events that is.

Well, like Stephen Colbert once said, reality has a liberal bias.

Reality is plastic and based on perception.

 

2012-09-20 2:44 PM
in reply to: #4420677

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
gearboy - 2012-09-20 11:14 AM

mehaner - 2012-09-20 9:59 AM the title of this thread is misleading.  the GOP doesn't hate vets, they hate anything that might make them look like they agree with Obama.  our political system is beyond broken.

This. The Republican's priority since 2008 has been to try to block anything that Obama does - so even when he takes a republican idea for health care, they attempt to block it and call it "Obama-care".

Frankly, the party today looks like a bunch of 2 year old, saying "no" to whatever is put before them, because to say "yes" would somehow imply a loss of autonomy. The party has taken away all incentives for moderates to be in the party, which is a shame. They all end up pandering to the worst excesses of their own party, making them look like the Democrats of the early 1970's.

Much like the continued finger pointing at Bush?? 

"He did it!"



2012-09-20 2:49 PM
in reply to: #4420852

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
jasonatkins - 2012-09-20 3:44 PM

Much like the continued finger pointing at Bush?? 

"He did it!"

You see, that was . . . well, it was different.

 

 

2012-09-20 4:48 PM
in reply to: #4420029

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?

If we are going to play the ridiculous title game, couldn't this thread just as easily be called "Why do the Dems hate our grandchildren?"

 

If not voting for something that happens to be about veterans makes you hate veterans, then isn't continuing to spend hating future generations?

2012-09-20 5:09 PM
in reply to: #4421094

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-20 3:48 PM

If we are going to play the ridiculous title game, couldn't this thread just as easily be called "Why do the Dems hate our grandchildren?"

 

If not voting for something that happens to be about veterans makes you hate veterans, then isn't continuing to spend hating future generations?

Why do you hate America?

2012-09-20 5:15 PM
in reply to: #4420632

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
JoshR - 2012-09-20 12:45 PM
tuwood - 2012-09-20 11:12 AM
tri_bob - 2012-09-20 9:30 AM

???Mitch McConnell on 10/23/2010: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

I'd suggest that there are any number of things that the Senate minority leader might have considered to be the "single most important thing" to achieve. Some of these things:

  • Foster creation of jobs
  • Bring troops home
  • Address glaring public education needs
  • (Genuinely) address public debt
  • [Feel free to add your own]

Instead, congressional Republicans have spent their time opposing just about everything proposed by the President or congressional Democrats, even about things they would otherwise support. House Republicans have held over 30 votes to repeal the ACA (aka, "Obamacare"). Say what you will about ACA, taking that much limited time in an admittedly futile exercise is idiotic. Do it once, maybe even twice, to establish that they think it's a bad idea: fine. Keep doing it, and they're admitting they have no ideas. Their collective temper tantrum has lasted almost two years, and it's not helping.

The current problem is congressional Republicans. It really is.

I hope you were equally as outraged when the Dems blocked everything Bush tried to push through.

As for the bill at hand, "would have spent $1 billion over five years".  That's enough for me to oppose it.  WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, no matter how good or bad it is.  So I guess I hate our veterans too which sucks because I'm a veteran myself.

The biggest problem in Washington is a total utter and complete lack of leadership.  The Democrats block everything the Republicans pass and the Republicans block everything the Democrats pass and they both just sit and point fingers at each other.  If we had strong leadership who actually reached out and worked with both sides to find compromises then compromises could be passed.  What we have is a president who refuses to even talk to the opposing party and simply rams legislation through with zero support from the other side.  The ACA is a perfect example of that.  With no bipartisan support and using technicalities to ram it through there's no way it won't just get repealed when the R's get back in power.

Just remember, compromise is a two way street.  The Dem's can't whine all day long about the Repub's not compromising when they aren't willing to compromise either.

To be honest, I kind of like all the gridlock in congress because it keeps them from spending more money.  

Technically the Republican's have been more obstructionist than any congress ever before. Each successive congress gets worse though, so each one becomes the worst. 

Again, Vote for Gary Johnson.

Can you even imagine how obstructionist the congress would be if Gary Johnson were to win the presidency.  lol

2012-09-20 5:36 PM
in reply to: #4421094

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-20 2:48 PM

If we are going to play the ridiculous title game, couldn't this thread just as easily be called "Why do the Dems hate our grandchildren?"

 

If not voting for something that happens to be about veterans makes you hate veterans, then isn't continuing to spend hating future generations?

Because these programs lay the foundation for a country where everyone has a job (whether here legally or not), healthcare will be unlimited and free for all, everyone will have a masters degree or Phd. at no cost, the planet will begin to cool, dogs will play with cats, and there will no longer be a need to worship a God because we will be living in our own little heaven.



2012-09-20 6:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
popsracer - 2012-09-20 6:36 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-20 2:48 PM

If we are going to play the ridiculous title game, couldn't this thread just as easily be called "Why do the Dems hate our grandchildren?"

 

If not voting for something that happens to be about veterans makes you hate veterans, then isn't continuing to spend hating future generations?

Because these programs lay the foundation for a country where everyone has a job (whether here legally or not), healthcare will be unlimited and free for all, everyone will have a masters degree or Phd. at no cost, the planet will begin to cool, dogs will play with cats, and there will no longer be a need to worship a God because we will be living in our own little heaven.

Maybe I'm color blind but I'm pretty sure that should be a red font.

2012-09-20 7:33 PM
in reply to: #4421223

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Subject: RE: Why does the GOP hate our veterans?
TriRSquared - 2012-09-20 4:50 PM
popsracer - 2012-09-20 6:36 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-20 2:48 PM

If we are going to play the ridiculous title game, couldn't this thread just as easily be called "Why do the Dems hate our grandchildren?"

 

If not voting for something that happens to be about veterans makes you hate veterans, then isn't continuing to spend hating future generations?

Because these programs lay the foundation for a country where everyone has a job (whether here legally or not), healthcare will be unlimited and free for all, everyone will have a masters degree or Phd. at no cost, the planet will begin to cool, dogs will play with cats, and there will no longer be a need to worship a God because we will be living in our own little heaven.

Maybe I'm color blind but I'm pretty sure that should be a red font.

You are right.  Sorry.

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