Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down (Page 2)

Simple fix.  When you make a traffic stop you check everyone.  Honestly this is the way the law should have been written.  Would eliminate any confusion or accusation of racial profiling.

Of course this brings us back to the ID point above.

But the way it was written and would have been enforced was an open invitation for law enforcement to racially profile drivers.

I wouldnt mind seeing a national ID that could help with these issues and numerous others, but then again the enforcement would be at the Federal Level which is what many people opposse to start with.  We need a dictarorship to get things done

Did you feel that way 8 years ago?  Or let me rephrase that question, were as you as vocal about it 8 years ago?

Why do people always fall back to this argument?

Actually it is not an argument i'm falling back on, as i'm not one of those that thinks because someone else did it is ok to do it.

I'm genuinely interested as it is very common, from both sides i will admit, to loudly condemn those actions that you previously stayed quiet about when those that you agree with were making them.

Right, because no other president has EVER used EP before.

Because all too many people have their partisan blinders on. Just like a lot of people will complain about stuff the next president does, that Obama is also doing and they aren't saying anything now. I recall prior to Obama being elected the posters criticizing the presidency for these same topics being different posters. Now a lot of the criticizers have switched to the more conservative tending posters. Not pointing out you or Scooby, just saying there is a trend of keeping silent when it's your side of the fence and being vocal when it's not.

Is it not possible that people change their minds as to what is acceptable?  I know that as I have become more anti-both-sides-of-government that things I may have accepted years ago I would not accept today from either side.

There is however a big difference between Bush's use of EP and Obama's.  Obama claimed to have no knowledge of F&F.  How can you claim EP on something you know nothing about?

EP is not black and white.  Has a lot to do with HOW it is used.  If Bush had used it this way I'd be just as upset.

(BTW Clinton used it 14 times..) 

It is very possible to change your mind as to what it is acceptable, i know i have, but it is rather interesting when it happens while the guy that you vehemently disagree with is in power.  Also, following that line of thinking, why is Obama then a hypocrite (one of the nicest things i have heard him called) for changing his mind in regards to the use of EP, couldnt he genuinely changed his mind as to what it is acceptable?

I know EP is not black and white, but trying justify how Bush used it to make it seem more ok than how Obama used it is quite a reach.

Becuase Obama is using it in a situation where we has claimed "no knowledge" of the events.  How can you claim EP when you have no knowledge of the events?

Bush used it in situation where he had intimate knowledge of what was going on.  I'm not saying Bush was right to use it then, but clearly there is more going on then we know with regards to Obama and Holder.

Drewb8, this argument was on MSNBC yesterday and I think it's completely fallacious. 

The Feds not collecting tax dollars from residents does not cause the issues that AZ is so upset about.  (Crime, human traficking, using their state as a highway to import human slaves and drugs). 

If the Feds weren't collecting Federal Tax Dollars, AZ could care less until it started hitting their bottom line.  They would, however, impose a higher state income tax on their citizens to make up for the lost revenue from the Federal Government and that would be perfectly legal.

The US processes more visa applications and allows more legal immigrants than any country on earth. Over 1 Million people per year each of 8 of the last 10 years.  In other words, the US is allowing a lot of people here legally to begin with than anywhere else.

Easier illegal immigration makes life easier for the drug dealers, the human trafickers, the criminal elements, and yes terrorists (drug gangs are terrorist organizations).  Arizona is suffering a much heavier burden with illegal immigration than most states (CA is the only one higher on per capita illegal immigration).  They have to do something to protect their cities from becoming completely lawless (see entire border region of Mexico).

All that said, having lived south of the border for most of my childhood (7 years in Guatemala, Chiapas, and Sonora), and knowing what families are going through down there right now, I can't blame any of the people who come to this country illegally.  But that doesn't mean we shouldn't make it very difficult to live here comfortably as an illegal.

You state government seems to disagree.

yeah, but have you seen our state government?  Come on now, COJ is full of complains about politicians lying.  You feel AZ government is above that? The guys that have to deal with the problem on a day to day basis don't agree with the government.  Even though we have a few whacked folks in those positions too I know which one I am going to believe. 

Don't get me wrong, we still have an illegal immigration issue.  It's just actually not no where near as bad as portrayed on the news.

It is greatly exaggerated for public consumption that is for certain.  So it is the idea that illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from americans.

IMO this issue is not "greatly exaggerated".  It's a problem that needs to be handled. 

As far as steeling American jobs, not so much the issue for me.  Where my concern is first is that they are here "Illegally".  They intentionally broke the law.  For that there needs to be some consequence.  Second, they are using our services and resources basically for free.  I know we have a lot of people in the country that think getting a free ride is OK.  However, I am not OK with that.

I could carry on but I need to get back to work.

Misinterpret Much?  I said keep AZ cities from turning to lawlessness...

These days, it's easier to cross the border than in previous generations because there is more population against the border than back then on both sides and it's easier to bring stuff across and then blend into the populations of the US Border cities.  As such Brownsville, El Paso, Nogales, have all seen significant increases in drug-related crime over the last 30 years.

I'm certain that SB1070 had something to do with the attached statistics which show violent crime climbing year after year until 2009 when the law was introduced and 2010 when it was signed into law: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm.  Crime is down year over year since the law was implemented, just as immigration into AZ is down (It's down more in AZ than it is down across the Country).

Payson is pretty insulated from a lot of this since you're so far off the beaten path.  But Tucson, Yuma, Douglas, Phoenix, Nogales, those areas have plenty of action to keep them busy. Ranchers have been killed for calling the cops to report smugglers using their land, people have been kidnapped for ransom (most of those were themselves illegals who were kidnapped).

I'm not even sure I disagree with SCOTUS's decision on this one.  I just think anyone who tries to say "it's not that bad" is either insulated from the true problems, or just wrong...  I went to high school just outside of Baltimore.  Drug Crime there was not as bad as "The Wire" makes it out to be.  But whenever you went inside the beltway to play sports against the inner city schools, you saw that their world was definitely not as nice as yours.  Just saying that "not that bad" may be your perception and not the fact.

You mean like the one at the lower left hand corner of the thread? 

For those of us for whom FB and twitter and such is  blocked at work those buttons don't show up.