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 2015-11-19 4:23 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion  7821     Brooklyn, NY |  Subject: RE: Syrian refugeesOriginally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants. The bolded part doesn't make sense to me. There may very well be ISIS-sympathetic Syrians, but they aren't the ones, presumably, abandoning their homes and worldly posessions and fleeing for their lives from ISIS. I admit the analogy isn't perfect, but it's not a false one. The resistance to Jewish refugees was based on two factors: one, outright anti-Semitism. There were many people in the US who simply didn't like Jews and didn't like the idea of a bunch of them entering the US. Second was the (not unreasonable) fear that Nazi spies could hide among the mostly German Jewish refugees and enter the country unnoticed. Both of those factors are at work here. There is a legitmate concern that terrorists or radicals might enter the US among the refugees, and while this is a concern, it's not, in my opinion, a reason to deny refuge to thousands of genuinely needy people. Second, there is no question whatsoever, that xenophobia plays a HUGE part in the resistance to these refugees. The ignorance in some of the comments that I've seen from people who want to keep the refugees out is staggering. JMK, I read what people say on both sides with an open mind. However when you start calling names like xenophobic and then just say we are just ignorant because we may not agree, kills any dialog that could have taken place. What I find truly amazing is that people, in light of 9/11, Boston, etc. find it acceptable to take in "refugees" that according to people in this administration we cannot adequately screen. Do I care about the people in the mid east hell hole? Of course I do, but I also care about US citizens who many from that region what to kill. Sorry-- I should have been a LOT more clear, in retrospect: I wasn't referring to anyone here when I referred to xenophobia and ignorant comments. I was mostly referring to comments I've read on social media and in the comments section of articles I've read. On the contrary, everyone here has been thoughtful about their responses and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2015-11-19 4:23 PM |
| 2015-11-19 4:56 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by NXS Sorry-- I should have been a LOT more clear, in retrospect: I wasn't referring to anyone here when I referred to xenophobia and ignorant comments. I was mostly referring to comments I've read on social media and in the comments section of articles I've read. On the contrary, everyone here has been thoughtful about their responses and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn JMK, I read what people say on both sides with an open mind. However when you start calling names like xenophobic and then just say we are just ignorant because we may not agree, kills any dialog that could have taken place. What I find truly amazing is that people, in light of 9/11, Boston, etc. find it acceptable to take in "refugees" that according to people in this administration we cannot adequately screen. Do I care about the people in the mid east hell hole? Of course I do, but I also care about US citizens who many from that region what to kill. Originally posted by Jackemy1 The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants. The bolded part doesn't make sense to me. There may very well be ISIS-sympathetic Syrians, but they aren't the ones, presumably, abandoning their homes and worldly posessions and fleeing for their lives from ISIS. I admit the analogy isn't perfect, but it's not a false one. The resistance to Jewish refugees was based on two factors: one, outright anti-Semitism. There were many people in the US who simply didn't like Jews and didn't like the idea of a bunch of them entering the US. Second was the (not unreasonable) fear that Nazi spies could hide among the mostly German Jewish refugees and enter the country unnoticed. Both of those factors are at work here. There is a legitmate concern that terrorists or radicals might enter the US among the refugees, and while this is a concern, it's not, in my opinion, a reason to deny refuge to thousands of genuinely needy people. Second, there is no question whatsoever, that xenophobia plays a HUGE part in the resistance to these refugees. The ignorance in some of the comments that I've seen from people who want to keep the refugees out is staggering. The referees will pick the flag up on your comment......dmiller still gets 10 yards. |
| 2015-11-20 5:59 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Syrian refuges Originally posted by dmiller5 If LB were combined with jackemy and nxs.....
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| 2015-11-20 6:06 AM in reply to: 0 |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 The comparison that the Syrians are akin to the Jews is false analogy. First Jews are an ethnicity and Syrians are a nationality. Second, there were no Nazi sympathetic Jewish refugees, there are certainly ISIS sympathetic Syrians. And finally, Jews weren't running around Europe trying to blow up soccer stadiums, shooting up concert halls and restaurants. The bolded part doesn't make sense to me. There may very well be ISIS-sympathetic Syrians, but they aren't the ones, presumably, abandoning their homes and worldly posessions and fleeing for their lives from ISIS. I admit the analogy isn't perfect, but it's not a false one. The resistance to Jewish refugees was based on two factors: one, outright anti-Semitism. There were many people in the US who simply didn't like Jews and didn't like the idea of a bunch of them entering the US. Second was the (not unreasonable) fear that Nazi spies could hide among the mostly German Jewish refugees and enter the country unnoticed. Both of those factors are at work here. There is a legitmate concern that terrorists or radicals might enter the US among the refugees, and while this is a concern, it's not, in my opinion, a reason to deny refuge to thousands of genuinely needy people. Second, there is no question whatsoever, that xenophobia plays a HUGE part in the resistance to these refugees. The ignorance in some of the comments that I've seen from people who want to keep the refugees out is staggering. JMK, I read what people say on both sides with an open mind. However when you start calling names like xenophobic and then just say we are just ignorant because we may not agree, kills any dialog that could have taken place. What I find truly amazing is that people, in light of 9/11, Boston, etc. find it acceptable to take in "refugees" that according to people in this administration we cannot adequately screen. Do I care about the people in the mid east hell hole? Of course I do, but I also care about US citizens who many from that region what to kill. Sorry-- I should have been a LOT more clear, in retrospect: I wasn't referring to anyone here when I referred to xenophobia and ignorant comments. I was mostly referring to comments I've read on social media and in the comments section of articles I've read. On the contrary, everyone here has been thoughtful about their responses and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I figured that. It was just my old apologetics class kicking in. Edited by NXS 2015-11-20 6:08 AM |
| 2015-11-20 8:31 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 852 Evergreen, Colorado Bronze member | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Well played you guys - this it the most thoughtful and respectful discussion about these issues that I have seen on the internet. You have restored my hope in BT!! The rest of the world still needs some help... Edited by Stacers 2015-11-20 8:37 AM |
| 2015-11-20 11:04 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees JMK posted- " Sorry-- I should have been a LOT more clear, in retrospect: I wasn't referring to anyone here when I referred to xenophobia and ignorant comments. I was mostly referring to comments I've read on social media and in the comments section of articles I've read. On the contrary, everyone here has been thoughtful about their responses and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise." I think that ignorance does come into play on this issue; just not "ignorance" as we typically think of when we hear the word. I asked people responding to this thread to indicate where they live when I started this thread. I wanted to determine if the opinions of respondents varied by their location and if the make up of their local population could be linked as such. JMK has absolutely no qualms welcoming as many refugees as we can take, while I have reservations. JMK has made his decision based on personal experience; while I have my reservations based on ignorance. No, I don't have a klan hood in my closet, I just have had a very limited exposure to Muslims. San Antonio has almost no Muslims to speak of. I know there are mosques in town, I just have never seen one! My reservations and 'ignorance' is based on the lack of knowledge and exposure to Muslims and Islam. I think that's important to consider when we hear someone expressing a reluctance to open the gates for these folks from Syria. Fear of the unknown is a huge factor in how we form our opinions. Edited by mdg2003 2015-11-20 11:07 AM |
| 2015-11-20 11:47 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by mdg2003 JMK posted- " Sorry-- I should have been a LOT more clear, in retrospect: I wasn't referring to anyone here when I referred to xenophobia and ignorant comments. I was mostly referring to comments I've read on social media and in the comments section of articles I've read. On the contrary, everyone here has been thoughtful about their responses and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise." I think that ignorance does come into play on this issue; just not "ignorance" as we typically think of when we hear the word. I asked people responding to this thread to indicate where they live when I started this thread. I wanted to determine if the opinions of respondents varied by their location and if the make up of their local population could be linked as such. JMK has absolutely no qualms welcoming as many refugees as we can take, while I have reservations. JMK has made his decision based on personal experience; while I have my reservations based on ignorance. No, I don't have a klan hood in my closet, I just have had a very limited exposure to Muslims. San Antonio has almost no Muslims to speak of. I know there are mosques in town, I just have never seen one! My reservations and 'ignorance' is based on the lack of knowledge and exposure to Muslims and Islam. I think that's important to consider when we hear someone expressing a reluctance to open the gates for these folks from Syria. Fear of the unknown is a huge factor in how we form our opinions. I totally get it. There are many, many wonderful things about living in a country that is as geographically vast as the United States, but one of the drawbacks is that, depending on where you live, you may have little to no exposure to people who aren't very much like yourself. It's understandable that people from those places would grow up with a fear or distrust or prejudice towards someone who's different from them if they have no exposure to them at all-- that's what xenophobia means. It's usually meant to imply hatred/dislike/fear of foreigners, but taken literally, it means "fear of that which is different". I grew up in Baltimore and although I lived in an urban area, I went to school in a very white, very suburban, very affluent, very preppy private school. If you had asked 16-year old me about these immigrants, I probably would have felt differently about it than I do after almost 30 years in NYC, surrounded by every kind of person you can imagine. I can tell you that the friends from high school that I still follow on social media feel the same way you do, and for the same reason. Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2015-11-20 11:50 AM |
| 2015-11-21 11:24 AM in reply to: NXS |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Syrian refuges Look a little deeper. Lots of women and children in Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The strain on these countries is tremendous. I think the ones going north into europe on foot are doing so because they are physically able. 10k is sweet f%ck all. Turkey has 2.2 million. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War |
| 2015-11-21 3:10 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees |
| 2015-11-21 3:42 PM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees I have mixed feelings on the whole refugee topic. On the surface I'm in agreement with most of the people here that we should offer help to those most in need, it's who we are as a country. However, I also know that ISIS has stated that they are going to exploit the refugee crisis to smuggle attackers into western countries and have done just that in France. So, I feel we can't ride our unicorns around and talk about how awesome we are and just let everybody in without conditions. I do genuinely have concerns about the vetting of these folks and this topic has become hyper partisan, it's extremely difficult for us regular people to get to the truth of how they're being vetted. |
| 2015-11-21 4:09 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by tuwood I have mixed feelings on the whole refugee topic. On the surface I'm in agreement with most of the people here that we should offer help to those most in need, it's who we are as a country. However, I also know that ISIS has stated that they are going to exploit the refugee crisis to smuggle attackers into western countries and have done just that in France. So, I feel we can't ride our unicorns around and talk about how awesome we are and just let everybody in without conditions. I do genuinely have concerns about the vetting of these folks and this topic has become hyper partisan, it's extremely difficult for us regular people to get to the truth of how they're being vetted. Google it and learn away to your hearts content! |
| 2015-11-21 5:29 PM in reply to: ejshowers |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by ejshowers Originally posted by tuwood Google it and learn away to your hearts content! I have mixed feelings on the whole refugee topic. On the surface I'm in agreement with most of the people here that we should offer help to those most in need, it's who we are as a country. However, I also know that ISIS has stated that they are going to exploit the refugee crisis to smuggle attackers into western countries and have done just that in France. So, I feel we can't ride our unicorns around and talk about how awesome we are and just let everybody in without conditions. I do genuinely have concerns about the vetting of these folks and this topic has become hyper partisan, it's extremely difficult for us regular people to get to the truth of how they're being vetted. I think you missed my point. I do google it and there's flaming article after flaming article on both sides of the issue. Hence, it's difficult to get to the truth. |
| 2015-11-21 11:01 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees have you actually looked at our refugee policy? it takes around 18 months of vetting to get into this country as-is. |
| 2015-11-22 8:10 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Where are these refugees living during tis 18 month process? |
| 2015-11-22 9:33 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees They have to live wherever they are already. They don't let them in. The white house website has an infographic that details the process to some extent https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/11/20/infographic-screening-process-refugee-entry-united-states |
| 2015-11-22 8:13 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. |
| 2015-11-22 10:07 PM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? |
| 2015-11-23 8:12 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? Was he an immigrant, EU citizen or refugee? I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Somewhere the line is being blurred. Immigrants voluntarily leave their homeland, while a refugee is typically involuntarily displaced by violence or natural disasters. The immigrant usually wants to naturalize and fit in at his new country; a refugee would want to return to their home once the crisis that displaced them is over. That'd why I questioned the logic in moving them halfway across the globe in an earlier post. I ask this because this happened to my FIL after WW2. He was displaced from Czechoslovakia and really wanted to stay in Europe, particularly France. He was forced labor in Berlin during the war and then sent home. Being an enterprising young man, he wanted to go to France because he knew there was work. So he snuck into France. Long story, short, he got sent to Venezuela! He was stuck there for several years before eventually taking a move to the US. New Orleans in particular. He still wanted to get back to Europe, but reluctantly drifted to Texas after hearing that there were lots of Czechs here. He was doing everything in his power to get the heck out of the US until he met my MIL in 59-60. She was in Texas on a trip from NYC. They kept in touch and he went to NY to ask her to marry him. Had she said no, he was getting on the first boat to Europe and never coming back. She convinced him to stay. From what I hear, our immigration system hasnt gotten better since WW2. We may mean well and think we are helping some of these folks. When we might be doing the exact opposite of what they really want. |
| 2015-11-23 8:31 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by tuwood Was he an immigrant, EU citizen or refugee? I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Somewhere the line is being blurred. Immigrants voluntarily leave their homeland, while a refugee is typically involuntarily displaced by violence or natural disasters. The immigrant usually wants to naturalize and fit in at his new country; a refugee would want to return to their home once the crisis that displaced them is over. That'd why I questioned the logic in moving them halfway across the globe in an earlier post. I ask this because this happened to my FIL after WW2. He was displaced from Czechoslovakia and really wanted to stay in Europe, particularly France. He was forced labor in Berlin during the war and then sent home. Being an enterprising young man, he wanted to go to France because he knew there was work. So he snuck into France. Long story, short, he got sent to Venezuela! He was stuck there for several years before eventually taking a move to the US. New Orleans in particular. He still wanted to get back to Europe, but reluctantly drifted to Texas after hearing that there were lots of Czechs here. He was doing everything in his power to get the heck out of the US until he met my MIL in 59-60. She was in Texas on a trip from NYC. They kept in touch and he went to NY to ask her to marry him. Had she said no, he was getting on the first boat to Europe and never coming back. She convinced him to stay. From what I hear, our immigration system hasnt gotten better since WW2. We may mean well and think we are helping some of these folks. When we might be doing the exact opposite of what they really want. Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? Oh......I bet things have changed quite a bit since then. If you want the hell out of here today that won't be hard to arrange. On a MUCH smaller scale we send people back to where they came from all the time. |
| 2015-11-23 9:23 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by tuwood Was he an immigrant, EU citizen or refugee? I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Somewhere the line is being blurred. Immigrants voluntarily leave their homeland, while a refugee is typically involuntarily displaced by violence or natural disasters. The immigrant usually wants to naturalize and fit in at his new country; a refugee would want to return to their home once the crisis that displaced them is over. That'd why I questioned the logic in moving them halfway across the globe in an earlier post. I ask this because this happened to my FIL after WW2. He was displaced from Czechoslovakia and really wanted to stay in Europe, particularly France. He was forced labor in Berlin during the war and then sent home. Being an enterprising young man, he wanted to go to France because he knew there was work. So he snuck into France. Long story, short, he got sent to Venezuela! He was stuck there for several years before eventually taking a move to the US. New Orleans in particular. He still wanted to get back to Europe, but reluctantly drifted to Texas after hearing that there were lots of Czechs here. He was doing everything in his power to get the heck out of the US until he met my MIL in 59-60. She was in Texas on a trip from NYC. They kept in touch and he went to NY to ask her to marry him. Had she said no, he was getting on the first boat to Europe and never coming back. She convinced him to stay. From what I hear, our immigration system hasnt gotten better since WW2. We may mean well and think we are helping some of these folks. When we might be doing the exact opposite of what they really want. Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? Oh......I bet things have changed quite a bit since then. If you want the hell out of here today that won't be hard to arrange. On a MUCH smaller scale we send people back to where they came from all the time. Everything I'm seeing online shows that three of them have been confirmed as refugees, so I am more curious as to who is saying they're all EU citizens.
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| 2015-11-23 10:54 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Veteran 1019 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by tuwood Was he an immigrant, EU citizen or refugee? I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Somewhere the line is being blurred. Immigrants voluntarily leave their homeland, while a refugee is typically involuntarily displaced by violence or natural disasters. The immigrant usually wants to naturalize and fit in at his new country; a refugee would want to return to their home once the crisis that displaced them is over. That'd why I questioned the logic in moving them halfway across the globe in an earlier post. I ask this because this happened to my FIL after WW2. He was displaced from Czechoslovakia and really wanted to stay in Europe, particularly France. He was forced labor in Berlin during the war and then sent home. Being an enterprising young man, he wanted to go to France because he knew there was work. So he snuck into France. Long story, short, he got sent to Venezuela! He was stuck there for several years before eventually taking a move to the US. New Orleans in particular. He still wanted to get back to Europe, but reluctantly drifted to Texas after hearing that there were lots of Czechs here. He was doing everything in his power to get the heck out of the US until he met my MIL in 59-60. She was in Texas on a trip from NYC. They kept in touch and he went to NY to ask her to marry him. Had she said no, he was getting on the first boat to Europe and never coming back. She convinced him to stay. From what I hear, our immigration system hasnt gotten better since WW2. We may mean well and think we are helping some of these folks. When we might be doing the exact opposite of what they really want. Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? Oh......I bet things have changed quite a bit since then. If you want the hell out of here today that won't be hard to arrange. On a MUCH smaller scale we send people back to where they came from all the time. Everything I'm seeing online shows that three of them have been confirmed as refugees, so I am more curious as to who is saying they're all EU citizens.
It doesn't say they're refugees, but "asylum-seeking migrants". He had already entered France illegally, and he'd applied for but not yet received refugee status. Remember the camerawoman who tripped the father in Hungary? The news called them refugees, but technically they would have all been migrants. With their open borders, that's what Europe has to deal with. The difference between refugee and asylum seeking migrant in Europe is a bit of legal semantics. Refugees have been approved as refugees, asylum seekers are still waiting a decision, but they're all living in whatever country they fled to. But the difference between refugee and asylum seeking migrant in our country is huge. Refugees don't get to come until they've already gone through the entire vetting process. The Boston marathon bombers were asylum seekers. Their parents came on a 90 day tourist visa, then applied for asylum while they were here. Quite frankly, any Syrian terrorist who tries to get here via the refugee route instead of just getting a tourist visa is too stupid to be a threat. |
| 2015-11-23 11:05 AM in reply to: Bob Loblaw |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by Bob Loblaw Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by tuwood Was he an immigrant, EU citizen or refugee? I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Somewhere the line is being blurred. Immigrants voluntarily leave their homeland, while a refugee is typically involuntarily displaced by violence or natural disasters. The immigrant usually wants to naturalize and fit in at his new country; a refugee would want to return to their home once the crisis that displaced them is over. That'd why I questioned the logic in moving them halfway across the globe in an earlier post. I ask this because this happened to my FIL after WW2. He was displaced from Czechoslovakia and really wanted to stay in Europe, particularly France. He was forced labor in Berlin during the war and then sent home. Being an enterprising young man, he wanted to go to France because he knew there was work. So he snuck into France. Long story, short, he got sent to Venezuela! He was stuck there for several years before eventually taking a move to the US. New Orleans in particular. He still wanted to get back to Europe, but reluctantly drifted to Texas after hearing that there were lots of Czechs here. He was doing everything in his power to get the heck out of the US until he met my MIL in 59-60. She was in Texas on a trip from NYC. They kept in touch and he went to NY to ask her to marry him. Had she said no, he was getting on the first boat to Europe and never coming back. She convinced him to stay. From what I hear, our immigration system hasnt gotten better since WW2. We may mean well and think we are helping some of these folks. When we might be doing the exact opposite of what they really want. Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? Oh......I bet things have changed quite a bit since then. If you want the hell out of here today that won't be hard to arrange. On a MUCH smaller scale we send people back to where they came from all the time. Everything I'm seeing online shows that three of them have been confirmed as refugees, so I am more curious as to who is saying they're all EU citizens.
It doesn't say they're refugees, but "asylum-seeking migrants". He had already entered France illegally, and he'd applied for but not yet received refugee status. Remember the camerawoman who tripped the father in Hungary? The news called them refugees, but technically they would have all been migrants. With their open borders, that's what Europe has to deal with. The difference between refugee and asylum seeking migrant in Europe is a bit of legal semantics. Refugees have been approved as refugees, asylum seekers are still waiting a decision, but they're all living in whatever country they fled to. But the difference between refugee and asylum seeking migrant in our country is huge. Refugees don't get to come until they've already gone through the entire vetting process. The Boston marathon bombers were asylum seekers. Their parents came on a 90 day tourist visa, then applied for asylum while they were here. Quite frankly, any Syrian terrorist who tries to get here via the refugee route instead of just getting a tourist visa is too stupid to be a threat. Now there is something I could get behind.......we need to register stupid people, and they need to wear some kind of a badge, so that when we encounter them we can just move on to the next person who isn't wearing a "stupid badge". If I had every minute back in my life that I've spent dealing with idiots I'd likely be nearly half my age. |
| 2015-11-23 11:26 AM in reply to: Bob Loblaw |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Originally posted by Bob Loblaw Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by tuwood Was he an immigrant, EU citizen or refugee? I think it's important to note that there is a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Somewhere the line is being blurred. Immigrants voluntarily leave their homeland, while a refugee is typically involuntarily displaced by violence or natural disasters. The immigrant usually wants to naturalize and fit in at his new country; a refugee would want to return to their home once the crisis that displaced them is over. That'd why I questioned the logic in moving them halfway across the globe in an earlier post. I ask this because this happened to my FIL after WW2. He was displaced from Czechoslovakia and really wanted to stay in Europe, particularly France. He was forced labor in Berlin during the war and then sent home. Being an enterprising young man, he wanted to go to France because he knew there was work. So he snuck into France. Long story, short, he got sent to Venezuela! He was stuck there for several years before eventually taking a move to the US. New Orleans in particular. He still wanted to get back to Europe, but reluctantly drifted to Texas after hearing that there were lots of Czechs here. He was doing everything in his power to get the heck out of the US until he met my MIL in 59-60. She was in Texas on a trip from NYC. They kept in touch and he went to NY to ask her to marry him. Had she said no, he was getting on the first boat to Europe and never coming back. She convinced him to stay. From what I hear, our immigration system hasnt gotten better since WW2. We may mean well and think we are helping some of these folks. When we might be doing the exact opposite of what they really want. Originally posted by simpsonbo All known attackers were citizens of EU countries. The Syrian passport found at one of the scenes was a fake and a duplicate of that fake was found in the possession of a migrant checked in Serbia. A dutch journalist ordered a fake Syrian passport using the photo of the dutch PM and got it within 48 hours. Just out of curiosity, where did you see the EU citizen part? I've seen some articles about the confusion on the passport, but as you mentioned it was used by a migrant checked in Serbia. So was he a migrant or an EU citizen? Oh......I bet things have changed quite a bit since then. If you want the hell out of here today that won't be hard to arrange. On a MUCH smaller scale we send people back to where they came from all the time. Everything I'm seeing online shows that three of them have been confirmed as refugees, so I am more curious as to who is saying they're all EU citizens.
It doesn't say they're refugees, but "asylum-seeking migrants". He had already entered France illegally, and he'd applied for but not yet received refugee status. Remember the camerawoman who tripped the father in Hungary? The news called them refugees, but technically they would have all been migrants. With their open borders, that's what Europe has to deal with. The difference between refugee and asylum seeking migrant in Europe is a bit of legal semantics. Refugees have been approved as refugees, asylum seekers are still waiting a decision, but they're all living in whatever country they fled to. But the difference between refugee and asylum seeking migrant in our country is huge. Refugees don't get to come until they've already gone through the entire vetting process. The Boston marathon bombers were asylum seekers. Their parents came on a 90 day tourist visa, then applied for asylum while they were here. Quite frankly, any Syrian terrorist who tries to get here via the refugee route instead of just getting a tourist visa is too stupid to be a threat. Makes sense, but unfortunately there's just enough vagueness that both sides of the argument have enough footing to argue it either way. Oh boy. |
| 2015-11-24 9:40 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syrian refugees Uh boy... http://news.sky.com/story/1593241/putin-downing-of-jet-a-stab-in-the-back Not a refugee thing, but Syrian related. |
| 2015-11-24 9:54 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Syrian refuges I went to junior high and high school with kids who were refugees from Vietnam. We bonded over our love of the B-52s and pizza. I have a friend whose family escaped Vietnam by boat; they were stranded on an island with other families where young girls were frequently raped by armed fishermen who picked them off the island at will. One of these girls was his cousin. Eventually his family made it to a Cambodian refugee camp before making it to the US. They still speak Vietnamese in their home, but they also love their life here. My husband's family came to the US to escape the pogroms in the Ukraine. It was the practice to change your surname when you were admitted to the US because the US would send your immigration notice back to your country of origin. To protect any family still left in the Ukraine (or Russia), they would give a false surname. His family made it their business to "fit in" to American culture, as they were ever wary of being singled out and persecuted for their religion. My great-great grandfather emigrated to the US with his family to escape the Franco-Prussian war. He didn't want to die in yet another European war. I would not only welcome a family, I would find household items and clothes to donate. These people are fleeing death and destruction, a vulgar and brutal war. I think most are just like you and me, they just want to raise their family without fear of a bomb landing on their house. I'm not sure what the POTUS could do to unite the country. With someone like Donald Trump finding so much favor with a %age of the population, it's clear that no POTUS would be able to unite this country. We are a polarized nation. |
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