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What is legal in the water. (Page 2)
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 2009-08-30 12:51 PM in reply to: #2378057 |
Elite  3315    Miami |  Subject: RE: What is legal in the water.i do agree with you to some extent. i did my first olympic in march. water in miami in march is about 70-75 degrees. you definitely don't need wetsuit and its refreshing in fact to do it without. this was a big race and yet almost everyone had one. it helped my friend shave off a minute in the swim, i truckered on without one. and was pissed that some people that got better times did it with help of an item that gives them an advantage not because of their true ability. but i also came to realize that this is a hobby for alot of the people in the age groups that won't be elites. and what is a hobbies are meant for. buy what you wanted or need and use it. usually it works like that in most hobbies and there will always be those that spend extra to have that shiny new toy to perform just a little bit better. |
| 2009-08-30 1:14 PM in reply to: #2378861 |
Veteran 144 Ann Arbor, MI | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. trix - 2009-08-30 1:51 PM i do agree with you to some extent. i did my first olympic in march. water in miami in march is about 70-75 degrees. you definitely don't need wetsuit and its refreshing in fact to do it without. this was a big race and yet almost everyone had one. it helped my friend shave off a minute in the swim, i truckered on without one. and was pissed that some people that got better times did it with help of an item that gives them an advantage not because of their true ability. but i also came to realize that this is a hobby for alot of the people in the age groups that won't be elites. and what is a hobbies are meant for. buy what you wanted or need and use it. usually it works like that in most hobbies and there will always be those that spend extra to have that shiny new toy to perform just a little bit better. i agree with trixies second paragraph. 99% of us are never going to win anything meaningful, expensive equipment or not. but if you're fast, you might win a local event. but the vast majority of us will never ever threaten to win a pro event. so you should just do whatever makes you have fun! if that's getting a $10K bike and a $500 wetsuit, go for it!  but if it simply means being there with your hybrid and your beach swim trunks, do it! my first tri ever was this spring...and there was this guy on a mountain bike...and instead of a bike helmet, he was wearing a motorcycle full helmet that was airbrushed with pittsburgh steeles logos on it. and he was FAST!!!!! he killed most of the field on his mountain bike with big, thick, knobby tires. he looked like he had a great time! i know guy that does the bike portion on a fixie...because he just likes his fixie! and i know a bunch of guys that like to use all the expensive gear...they know they'll never win...but that's how they enjoy themselves...by getting and using all the coolest toys...by breaking their own PR. it's fun!i know i'm never going to win Kona. if i can become a better swimmer, maybe one day i'll win a local sprint or oly. but i ain't no pro caliber racer. so i just worry about enjoying myself. and i always do! |
| 2009-08-30 1:24 PM in reply to: #2378057 |
Member 75 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Yup for me its just competeing and Enjoying the race, self accomplishment. Like you said I'll never win a AG bracket or even compete in Kona it's all about the journy.. I just love it when I tell people do triathlons and they say I'm crazy... LOL Edited by Thrash1 2009-08-30 1:25 PM |
| 2009-08-30 1:40 PM in reply to: #2378057 |
Expert 1116 Thornton, CO | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Around here I feel the water temps are "cold", my race in 2 weeks is supposed to be in the low-mid 60s. I'll be wearing a wet suit because 1) I'd rather actually enjoy the swim than be freezing 2) I'm not going to place in my AG, so enjoying it and doing my best is my priority 3) It's the first time I'll be doing a HIM and the added safety of the buoyancy from the wetsuit will help calm my nerves about if I'm ready for that distance in an OWS. The fact that it will make me faster is not one of my reasons for choosing to use one, it's just a side benefit that I think would only effect my expected 7 hours of racing by a matter of 10 minutes AT MOST... I still have to exert myself for 7 hours, 10 minutes isn't going to make or break me or get me to win my AG, but it will make me enjoy the race a lot more. |
| 2009-08-30 1:56 PM in reply to: #2378180 |
Extreme Veteran 751 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. GaryRM - 2009-08-29 5:40 PM Sorry but I don't understand the issue. Races are wetsuit legal or not per USAT. I spent $80 on my wetsuit, you can buy them new for $99 at Xterra. I went to their site and cheapest was $250....most $300-600ish....am I missing something? I am a beginner and would like to pick up a suit for training when the water cools off. Decision re using one racing will depend on water temp at this point...Hypothermia is "not a good thing"...I am way too slow for other factors to weigh-in just yet  |
| 2009-08-30 3:11 PM in reply to: #2378392 |
Extreme Veteran 508 Fleming Island, FL | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Ontherun - 2009-08-29 9:45 PM Without all the inovation from companies pushing the envelope, and trying to help people "buy speed" we would most likely not seen the explosion of growth in our sport. The sponsor dollars help the overall sport grow, weather we like it or not. Enough with my rant, now go out and enjoy the race
Well said. Unless I am missing something, the payout for the IM races (non-Kona) is only like $9,000 for the overall winner. If it wasn't for the sponsors I don't see how the pros could afford to make a living doing triathlons. With regards to a wetsuit, I feel that any benefit or times savings I get from it are negated when I go to take it off; I have not perfected that dance yet. I do not fault people for wanting to have the best race equipment because if I had the means I'd probably do it too. There are many things I could do differently to shave time that would not require any additional money, but I am too lazy to "train" in those areas. |
| 2009-08-30 3:31 PM in reply to: #2378930 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. RiverRat50 - 2009-08-30 2:56 PM GaryRM - 2009-08-29 5:40 PM Sorry but I don't understand the issue. Races are wetsuit legal or not per USAT. I spent $80 on my wetsuit, you can buy them new for $99 at Xterra. I went to their site and cheapest was $250....most $300-600ish....am I missing something? I am a beginner and would like to pick up a suit for training when the water cools off. Decision re using one racing will depend on water temp at this point...Hypothermia is "not a good thing"...I am way too slow for other factors to weigh-in just yet Here ya go RiverRat. http://www.xterrawetsuits.com/promo/ Like you, I didn't see any links off their main page. Someone had started a thread on this site with that URL. I ordered mine this week as well. Good luck, it expires Sept. 1. |
| 2009-08-30 4:53 PM in reply to: #2378057 |
Extreme Veteran 751 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Thanks a bunch Michael! ok...quick decision time. Full or sleeveless? Seems full makes more sense re warmth in cold water etc...but have they perfected the cut to avoid chafe etc around the arms...swimming for 1/2 to mile??? If so wow... Greatly appreciate input re this decision. |
| 2009-08-30 5:29 PM in reply to: #2379099 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. you do realize bike weight on any of the tri courses we do is pretty close to irrelevent? |
| 2009-08-30 5:31 PM in reply to: #2379164 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. |
| 2009-08-30 5:32 PM in reply to: #2378845 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. bruehoyt - 2009-08-30 1:31 PM newbz - 2009-08-30 12:57 PMon the flip side, should racing flats, tri shorts, or tri bikes be allowed? why not just ride a mountain bike? yeah, i mentioned the racing flats. but the wetsuit is more like rollerblades - it isn't just reducing friction - it is actually taking away work by planing the swimmer.Also - you know how HFP has the MT Bkie div. It is there for the entry level athletes not mountain bike enthusiasts (considering it is on paved roads) why not have a general bike limit rather than just lumping it as Mt Bikes. Maybe make it a weight class based on honor syst like Clydesdale and Athena? There is a lot of equip involved in a tri - i would love to have an economically level playing fiel but my original post center more around why it is legal not it's cost. specifically it's buoyancy factor since it contradicts USAT's own rule of no floatation devices. I could see a speedsuit like worn in the olympics being legal - (frustratingly expensive - but at least not buoyant) Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess that the buoyancy gained from a wet suit is a compromise in the rules in exchange for the insulating benefits. Thermal insulation works (whether in a wetsuit, walls of your house, or a winter coat) because it has air pockets in it. If USAT stuck to a strict rule of no buoyancy from wetsuits , they would be severely limiting it's insulating properties, which is the primary purpose of them. I'm guessing it's about safety. |
| 2009-08-30 5:38 PM in reply to: #2379164 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. newbz - 2009-08-30 6:29 PMyou do realize bike weight on any of the tri courses we do is pretty close to irrelevent? weight is fairly irrelevant on a fairly flat, non technical course b/c an object in motion tends to remain in motion - however there is a correlation between weight and other qualities of a bike. (heavier bikes tend to be cheaper and have cheaper components - some more expensive components also are lighter. If you have less rolling and wind resistance - sealed bearings, wheels tires, cranks, aero bars, aero frames, and more. they also have more gears and shift better.) so not only is the bike heavier but it resists going forward more than a better bike. |
| 2009-08-30 5:44 PM in reply to: #2379169 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. TriMyBest - 2009-08-30 6:32 PM bruehoyt - 2009-08-30 1:31 PM newbz - 2009-08-30 12:57 PMon the flip side, should racing flats, tri shorts, or tri bikes be allowed? why not just ride a mountain bike? yeah, i mentioned the racing flats. but the wetsuit is more like rollerblades - it isn't just reducing friction - it is actually taking away work by planing the swimmer.Also - you know how HFP has the MT Bkie div. It is there for the entry level athletes not mountain bike enthusiasts (considering it is on paved roads) why not have a general bike limit rather than just lumping it as Mt Bikes. Maybe make it a weight class based on honor syst like Clydesdale and Athena? There is a lot of equip involved in a tri - i would love to have an economically level playing fiel but my original post center more around why it is legal not it's cost. specifically it's buoyancy factor since it contradicts USAT's own rule of no floatation devices. I could see a speedsuit like worn in the olympics being legal - (frustratingly expensive - but at least not buoyant) Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess that the buoyancy gained from a wet suit is a compromise in the rules in exchange for the insulating benefits. Thermal insulation works (whether in a wetsuit, walls of your house, or a winter coat) because it has air pockets in it. If USAT stuck to a strict rule of no buoyancy from wetsuits , they would be severely limiting it's insulating properties, which is the primary purpose of them. I'm guessing it's about safety. you make a good point. i think that was probably the original reason. however now they are worn in temps up to SEVENTY EIGHT DEGREES. i could see the inclusion for 50's and even 60's but anyone who isn'tjust leisure swimming and standing in the water will be more than fine at 70º. but your explanation lends itself to the original inclusion and Ontherun's comment about sponsorship probably accelerated the acceptance at all levels and most water temps. |
| 2009-08-30 5:47 PM in reply to: #2379014 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Pector55 - 2009-08-30 4:31 PM Here ya go RiverRat. http://www.xterrawetsuits.com/promo/ Like you, I didn't see any links off their main page. Someone had started a thread on this site with that URL. I ordered mine this week as well. Good luck, it expires Sept. 1. why would you temp me like this? i looked - it is a stellar deal. i thought about it but i am still going to hold off (for now) |
| 2009-08-30 6:02 PM in reply to: #2379188 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. the componenets such as derailers, chain, etc, unless horribly dirty are going to make almost 0% diff in how fast you can go. i have raced on, and my dad races with sora and tiagra parts, they shift fine. tires are the only thing that is going to effect rolling resitance, those are pretty cheap. if i can get into the position i need, the frame is only going to make seconds of diff in time over sprint distances. at the speeds/power outputs 95% of us are racing at, the crank is going to matter very little/at all. bike weight in any course i have done save for the american TTT is going to do almost nothing to your time. i have raced on my dads bike before (8spd, road bike, sora/tiagra parts mix), HEAVY!!!!!!! got the position close to what i needed. my wheels, did a local TT, one that i have done about 12 times so far. times were very very close to what i can do on my bike, Edited by newbz 2009-08-30 6:03 PM |
| 2009-08-30 7:56 PM in reply to: #2378804 |
| Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. bruehoyt - 2009-08-30 9:51 AM Dude. You ain't the arbiter of what gets posted here. Totally uncalled for. rlejeune - 2009-08-29 7:51 PMWetsuits are legal as per the rules. If you don't want to buy one it's your choice, personally I don't get why you don't want to spend 99$ or more but what can I say. Wow that's enlightening! Oh btw- if your answer provides no insight - you can just not post.But don't question if it should be legal or not ... It is legal! FTR, I agree with that poster. And it's actually quite insightful. You asked what is legal? but hadn't read the rules. Don't like wetsuits? No one will make you use one |
| 2009-08-31 9:24 AM in reply to: #2379385 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. ChrisM - 2009-08-30 8:56 PM bruehoyt - 2009-08-30 9:51 AM Dude. You ain't the arbiter of what gets posted here. Totally uncalled for. rlejeune - 2009-08-29 7:51 PMWetsuits are legal as per the rules. If you don't want to buy one it's your choice, personally I don't get why you don't want to spend 99$ or more but what can I say. Wow that's enlightening! Oh btw- if your answer provides no insight - you can just not post.But don't question if it should be legal or not ... It is legal! FTR, I agree with that poster. And it's actually quite insightful. You asked what is legal? but hadn't read the rules. Don't like wetsuits? No one will make you use one
saying something is legal because it is legal when the the original question (which you clearly didn't read) said: I understand they are legal but exactly what is legal? is not an answer at all.
Edited by bruehoyt 2009-08-31 9:27 AM |
| 2009-08-31 9:29 AM in reply to: #2380063 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. bruehoyt - 2009-08-31 10:24 AM ChrisM - 2009-08-30 8:56 PM bruehoyt - 2009-08-30 9:51 AM Dude. You ain't the arbiter of what gets posted here. Totally uncalled for. rlejeune - 2009-08-29 7:51 PMWetsuits are legal as per the rules. If you don't want to buy one it's your choice, personally I don't get why you don't want to spend 99$ or more but what can I say. Wow that's enlightening! Oh btw- if your answer provides no insight - you can just not post.But don't question if it should be legal or not ... It is legal! FTR, I agree with that poster. And it's actually quite insightful. You asked what is legal? but hadn't read the rules. Don't like wetsuits? No one will make you use one
saying something is legal because it is legal when the the original question (which you clearly didn't read) said: I understand they are legal but exactly what is legal? is not an answer at all. I saw this post the other day, and had the same opinion as Chris. It's not for you to decide what is, or is not insightful. It's also not for you to decide if people should post to a thread. If you want to know why wetsuits are legal, send an email to USAT. Because the answers you are to be getting here don't seem to be good enough for you. |
| 2009-08-31 9:30 AM in reply to: #2380063 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. bruehoyt - 2009-08-31 9:24 AM ChrisM - 2009-08-30 8:56 PM bruehoyt - 2009-08-30 9:51 AM Dude. You ain't the arbiter of what gets posted here. Totally uncalled for. rlejeune - 2009-08-29 7:51 PMWetsuits are legal as per the rules. If you don't want to buy one it's your choice, personally I don't get why you don't want to spend 99$ or more but what can I say. Wow that's enlightening! Oh btw- if your answer provides no insight - you can just not post.But don't question if it should be legal or not ... It is legal! FTR, I agree with that poster. And it's actually quite insightful. You asked what is legal? but hadn't read the rules. Don't like wetsuits? No one will make you use one
saying something is legal because it is legal when the the original question (which you clearly didn't read) said: I understand they are legal but exactly what is legal? is not an answer at all.
That's not hostility. That's somebody pointing out the inappropriateness of your reply. Most would say yours was the hostile post. If you don't like somebody's reply to your question that's your right. There's no need to be ugly about it. |
| 2009-08-31 9:35 AM in reply to: #2378057 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. sorry about saying don't bother to post -btw I never said I don't like wetsuits - I have even thought about buying one. My frustration is that economics plays a decent role in the sport. Edited by bruehoyt 2009-08-31 9:37 AM |
| 2009-08-31 9:36 AM in reply to: #2378057 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Can we get back to figuring out why Ice Cream is great? It really is. |
| 2009-08-31 9:46 AM in reply to: #2378057 |
Extreme Veteran 751 | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Speaking of GREAT Is a full MORE GREAT than a sleeveless?  (Sorry for the mini-thread-hyjack...couldn't resist...) |
| 2009-08-31 9:50 AM in reply to: #2379169 |
Champion 10021 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. TriMyBest - 2009-08-30 5:32 PM Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess that the buoyancy gained from a wet suit is a compromise in the rules in exchange for the insulating benefits. Thermal insulation works (whether in a wetsuit, walls of your house, or a winter coat) because it has air pockets in it. If USAT stuck to a strict rule of no buoyancy from wetsuits , they would be severely limiting it's insulating properties, which is the primary purpose of them. I'm guessing it's about safety. This is exactly it, thanks for finally posting this. Well done. To the OP - yes, it's the way the sport is. Money can equal speed. of course there are folks racing who are no good, but have good equipment. And there are always a few that are super fast, despite the crap they are using. And I wear a sleeveless wet suit and get by just fine. I'm in Minnesota, so I would venture that in the US there are few places with colder water to deal with. The first race of the season, early June, would be nice to have sleeves. But once you're into the 70s it's all good. |
| 2009-08-31 9:55 AM in reply to: #2380142 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. RiverRat50 - 2009-08-31 10:46 AM Speaking of GREAT Is a full MORE GREAT than a sleeveless? (Sorry for the mini-thread-hyjack...couldn't resist...) Hyjack welcome. I think your kidding but I really did wonder this. The wet suit reduces water friction but the one place I want to catch the water is my arm so is the reduction in my reach a reasonable trade off for my pull? Is the restriction of movement significantly different than a sleeveless? How much more time does it require the AVERAGE wearer to remove the long sleeves? What is the benefit to a long sleever in 65+ temps? |
| 2009-08-31 10:04 AM in reply to: #2378057 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: What is legal in the water. Legal or not, I think wetsuits are unecessary unless there are chucks of ice floating in the water! I find it interesting that the water temp for "wetsuit legal" is lower for pros than for AGers. What does that say? To me it says 'we want to attract as many people to our sport as possible by making things as comfy as we can for them. Either that or they think some of the AGers are going be in the water for so long that hypotherma will set in and they will drown. I disagree that wetsuits are for warmth and not buoyancy. Tri wetsuites could easily be made nuetrually bouyant by impregnating non-buoyant dense material into the material. Wetsuits are made to make it easier to swim. Or non-buoyant material could be used that employd a thermo-chemicial reaction to keep the swimmer warm...just like handwarmers. ~Mike Edited by Rogillio 2009-08-31 10:05 AM |
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