Ironman Long run (Page 2)

This was a probably a bigger issue than the "little devil in your brain".  If your pacing has been good, you should not have to have the "discussion with the devil" until perhaps mile 18-20 on the run.  Then it really does become about just accepting that it is going to hurt and that you will push through, regardless.

It's really not long bricks or very long runs that are key for that.  It's having solid training across the 3 sports (especially the bike) and pacing well until those last 6-8 miles (again, especially the bike).

Congrats on your first IM!

Thanks...you may be right. When I say pushed it harder than I'd planned, I mean my time was a bit faster, but my HR was where I wanted it and I "felt" quite good all they way through the bike. I was holding back at times, never really going "hard" if you will.

But the thing that's been keeping me 2nd guessing is how good I felt when running (relatively), I was never in a place where I was thinking, "wow, I'm going to fall over if I don't stop and walk" or "what the hell am I doing this for" nothing ever like that, no "dark place" at all. It really started with stopping at the aid stations for ice down the top, water on the head and to drink as well as a banana, peach, etc. Then just realizing, wow, it sure feels good to walk...maybe I'll just walk another 50 feet, etc. But 100% of the time when I started running again, I felt totally fine.

I also recovered very quickly. Sure that night, quads were wrecked...by the next day, Sunday, feeling pretty good at awards ceremony and I drove 7 hours home that day. Monday I had no problem "bounding" up and down the stairs in my home. 

A full Iron is certainly very different from a 1/2...(and I've only done one of those too). I learned quite a lot about myself and am chomping at the bit to do another one! Need to figure out which MDot to do in 2013. Meanwhile I've got a local Sprint in early Sept, a local 1/2 Iron end of Sept. then IM California 70.3 in March. This sport is just awesome...sure wish I'd discovered it 20 years ago!

Thanks again for your thoughts and comments!

This isn't to discourage or dissuade, but you may be overestimating your IM goal pace. I did a marathon about 6 months before my Ironman and finished in 3:50. My IM marathon was 5:14. This isn't the same for everyone, but I thought I'd easily be able to run 9:45/ 10 mm, and that dream died after mile two

Maybe not great advice for beginner triathletes?

I'm doubting you did a 54 mile run your first year of training.

It isn't everyone's first year of training, and he didn't say beginners should be doing it, just gave an example of his own methods.

Well, I'm doubting there are many at the professional level who would go the full marathon distance for their Ironman training. So there is no reason an amateur should do it. Hilary Biscay comes to mind, but she also has done ultra-distance events. Like double Ironman and possibly some ultra-marathons. And it's likely that she has done it, not that she feels it's necessary when an Ironman is a key race for her.

Read through your race report earlier, and nice going! That's pretty good for a first attempt.

I agree with Johnny's comments on the training too. More huge bricks aren't necessarily the best thing, especially with running 2 hrs post ride. Seen where 1 hr is plenty. And even that isn't always necessary. Those things have a big recovery cost, so doing a bit less of them can help you get in more training overall so you're in better shape for the event.

The bike can be tricky to manage. Knowing to stay under anything "hard" is good, but you also want to manage within the "easy". It takes some time to get, but the first hour should feel "stupid easy". Not just easy. And possibly longer than that. You have to feel like you're holding back a lot until well into the ride. And don't forget that heat either. 90 is not easy to run in no matter what you train.

^Sorry but I have to go X2 on this.  I've completed three IM's and the first two years never had a training day over 6 hours. Leading into the last one my longest ride was 85 miles and longest run was 2.5 hours and they weren't on the same day or even a brick.  Under a 12.5 hour finish and never felt like I was winging it or suffering.  Ran the whole marathon portion.

My hats off to the people who go 17 hours.  I certainly wouldn't want to do that in training or in a race!

I'll have what he's drinking.

Isn't it about cumulative training? My overall fitness has improved greatly from training more per week....not necessarily training long during the week-end(cramming).  I think its important to have long training rides and runs to figure out the mental aspect and nutrition side of things. I think you would be better off increasing your overall mileage per week.  However, Friel recommends a "Ironman training" day to practice (1 hr swim, 5 hr bike, 2 hr run).  But this training philosophy is probably for another thread.  

I am also not a coach, but I am a 2X Ironman finisher. My first one  in 2010 my longest run was 18 miles at a 10 minute pace. In the IM I walked the second half of the marathon. My time was 6:32 for the marathon. Not a stellar performance. This year I broke my foot in February so I was limited in the amount of running I could do. My longest run was 12 miles at 11 minute pace. I ran the whole marathon at Lake Placid in 5:58 minutes and felt great. I am obviously not as competitive as others on this site, but I was and am happy with this. For me I have always listened to the advice of JohnnyKay and Kathy G they have not let me down. I like to read posts by everyone, but do find some ideas to be "out there". I guess that is what makes this work. all different ideas you get to pick want you want to try.     

Kevin

What kind of recovery is required for an overdistance training workout like this?  How did it relate to your overall run training volume?  How did you ramp up to that distance?  (I'm assuming that you didn't follow the 10% rule).

Besides the risk of overuse injury, I would worry that recovering from such a large effort would adversely affect subsequent training.

I understand some of your logic, but do you have an idea of the distance/endurance threshhold were this type of training becomes effective? 

Mark

well I was able to train the day after just fine, it really didn't kill me.  I also forgot to mention that it was also 90+ degrees out and humid (yay dc weather).  I have found that if I run 16 miles at a harder pace it impacts the next week of training more than 20 miles at an easier pace. As for the 10% rule, i followed it relatively closely, I did I think 3 or 4 15-16 milers, an 18 miler, and then a 20 miler over a couple month span, trying to maintain my total run volume around 20-30 mpw (sometimes life got in the way). I'm also 23 which probably impacts my ability to recover.

Only 1 IM but my coach never had me do those long bricks.  Longest was 5 1/2 hour ride followed by a 40 minute run.  And I think I only did that twice.   Longest stand alone run was 3 hours I think, might have been 3;15. Again, only did that once.  Being from a running background and having trained for a few marathons, I was worried that I wasn't getting enough miles in. 

In the end I had a great marathon - for me.  Finished in 4:45 which I was more than pleased with. I did walk all the aid stations which I planned on doing.  As it was my first, there was no pressure but to finish.   

She is mixing things up this year.  She inserted intervals into the long runs which I didn't have last year.  Some silly notion about getting faster.  Sure does tire me out

enjoy,

Duane