Is there something fundamentally wrong with Islam? (Page 2)

The real question, is why we're falling for the disinformation being pushed on us.  See the link above that I posted, which shows how much money is being spent to push an anti-Islam message in the US.

I think the issue is not one of Islam per se, but of fundamentalism and extremism, perhaps with a healthy dollop of living in a giant solar heated sandbox ruled by despots and dictators who treat your country's economy as a personal piggy bank.

Anywhere that people take fundamental views and then insist that the world around them conforms to those views we see violence. Mostly those may be religious in nature, but they can also come from secular POV's as well (Stalin, or American "militia's" that consist of right wing extremists convinced the government is working against them). But we don't have to look far to see examples of violence here by extremist groups and individuals.

And if your "leaders" repress all other forms of expression or dissent, while employment remains low, that is an awful lot of pent up anger and energy.

And further, I wouldn't doubt that there is subtle, discreet pressure from unpaid sources (e.g., domestic church, congress/individual reps) on the media to show one side of the story. If the US media thought they could curry favor and thrive($) with the other side of the story, they would. Yet they choose not to.   

Also, to BFD: No, there's not something inherently wrong with Islamic-based cultures. There is a different standard of 'normal' in places - independent of religion - where education and resources are scarce, or controlled. You may view that as wrong, but the people doing it don't have the perspective you do, and either view it as 'right' or 'this is what we need to do to survive'.

It's a good question, tho....

And how many of those 1.6 billion tried to stop the wrong doing?  I think that is where the question lies.  Why don't they condemn this or stop those people or exile those sects that propagate this type of action?

If you stand by and watch horrific things and do nothing you are no better then the ones committing the act.  Especially holds true if your in the majority.

Nice discussion all.  Thanks for asking all the questions BFD.

I've been frantically reading everything I can about Islam and also about Arabs as I've accepted a fellowship in the Gulf Area.  Triaya stated the basic tenets of the Islamic faith as I understand them.  The tenants say nothing that promotes violence nor promotes persecution of non-believers.

I spoke with my neighbor this morning who is a world history expert.  She explained that in Libya where the Ambassador was killed there is a large Pro-khaddafi population.  The US supported the rebels against Khadaffi and are hence none too popular in that part of Libya.  This may suggest that the attack had less to do with the religion of Islam and more to do with power.

On a larger scale I read in the book, Understanding Arabs, that violence from Muslims including Bin Laden has more to do with unjust US foreign policy than religion.  A big part of this injustice is what BFD mentioned, the situation in Palestine.

Interesting.  Thanks!

And that's a GREAT answer.

I would also think that for people who live in the Middle East, they've had thousands of years of:

• Invaders, colonization, crusades... outsiders invading their lands.
• A system of monarchy and tribal rule.  Never much of a concept of individual power.
• When said monarchies align with the western powers and use force to keep the populous down.
• Living atop the wealthiest resource in the world, but only a very select few get to benefit from its sale and foregin powers constantly battling over those resources.
• Poor education, iliteracy, a lack of knowledge of the outside world.
• External cultural invasions of their land.  I mean, who wouldn't fight to keep out McDonalds!

That's got to be a recipe for bad news no matter what the religion or culture is!

These guys are speaking out

So when so-called Christians attack abortion clinics, or providers, or when they picket funerals with signs saying "God hates f*gs", what do you do to address them? And I mean you personally, since you seem to be saying this in the highlighted area.

That's a good question Velo.  Perhaps part of the answer lies in the geographical cultural situation.  As Triaya pointed out most Muslims live in Asia a long way from Libya.   Many are perhaps struggling with poverty, perhaps have never even heard of Libya (I might be reading too much of my own geographical ignorance into others here) and furthermore may never have seen a protest accomplish anything constructive as we have seen here in the US.

Similarly we in the US seem to pay a lot more attention when our own countrymen are killed.  People in other countries don't get as much notice.  The deaths of 9-11 receive so much attention and each individual death is indeed tragic.  The deaths of civilians the subsequent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq do not get the same attention although the fatality count was much bigger.  These people are so far away and I believe harder for Americans to relate to.  If Burmese Christians killed the Laos ambassador in Yangon people in the US probably wouldn't pay much attention.

I thinks it's safe to say that Christians condemn and try to prevent violent abortion clinic bombings and the general condemnation of Westboro Baptist Church.  And the foundational tenants of Christianity do not call for or condone violence.  While vehment right-to-life people picket, protest and try to prevent, for the most part - they do not foundationally call for violence and killings.

It would be a valid example if priests in churches called for the bombing and murder of clinics/doctors and the Christian police stood back and allowed it to happen.

Thanks for putting that link.  The statements in it are tremendous. 

And to be fair, plenty of muslims DO call out against the violence of extremism. But as you pointed out elsewhere in this thread, BFD, there are plenty of people in our tribe who disagree with the Israeli treatment of the palestinians at this time, but there is still a strong tendency to close in ranks when therre is a threat from the outside.

Like anything else, when the extremists take control of the dialogue, on both sides, it can seem like the other side is only filled with extremists. How do you think it played out in the Islamic countries when the Florida preacher threated to burn the Koran? I doubt it was seen as the act/threat of an individual. I would believe it was seen as representative of the culture and religion that initiated the Crusades in the first place to rid the world of Islam.

given the foundational TENETS of Islam listed by yanti, why is it not safe to assume the same of the majority of muslims, then?

It is, but he didn't take the safe route. 

if we can assume MOST christians don't agree with westboro baptist/abortion clinic bombing because christianity is a "peaceful" religion, why can't we assume MOST muslims don't agree with the embassy attackers/911 because Islam is a peaceful religion as well?

You can assume most Muslims are anti-violent because of the tenants as well as the Muslim response to this incident in Libya. 

Although I will say I have yet to live in a Muslim country.  A Christian friend of mine who lived in Muslim Asia for 6 months went thinking many Muslims want to kill Christians but came back saying that this simply wasn't true.

When I've lived overseas I've found people admire the US.  Because the US is so powerful and our number one export is entertainment ie video games, movies etc. so other countries tend to think of us more than we think of them.

I'd say most Muslim countries have a problem with America's foreign policy with Palestine.  As BFD, pointed out it is pretty horrifying what is being done by Israel and supported by the US.