AMA classifies obesity as a disease (Page 2)

Originally posted by powerman

So why do you do what you do? It's because eating its tied into the most powerful center in the brain, the pleasure center. Because if it wasn't, nobody would do it.... so is it so incredibly difficult to think just maybe people with self control issues have something wrong with their on/off buttons? That some how their signals are not working quite right?

Originally posted by powerman

Nobody has a choice to eat or drink. We all die if we don't.

 

 

In fact... I'll just stay on this one.... so for everyone that has a handle on eating (I have been skinny all my life) what tells you to stop eating? In fact, why do you eat in the first place? Dead honest I wish I did not have to... because then I have to spend all this time and effort on the crapper, and I would love to just not have to do that at all.

Something "tells" you to eat. Something "tells" you to stop.. if not we would all explode like a Monty Python character. There are many many healthy active people... even right here on this forum... that eat something for "pleasure" alone. Not for sustenance or nutrition, but for mere pleasure alone... my drug of choice is Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia... what's your poison?

So why do you do what you do? It's because eating its tied into the most powerful center in the brain, the pleasure center.Because if it wasn't, nobody would do it.... so is it so incredibly difficult to think just maybe people with self control issues have something wrong with their on/off buttons? That some how their signals are not working quite right?

Originally posted by Kido

Because water and well balanced meals was exactly what I was referring to when the topic was alcoholism and obesity when I said "eat and drink".

Got me.  You are 100% right.

Originally posted by powerman

See, you have self control issues when it comes to snarky remarks. You should only post well balanced ones.

Why don't you look at my post. People do not have the "choice" to eat, we all have to eat. People here are commenting on "well balanced" appropriate meals... yet everyone here... I feel confident saying that... eats for other reasons besides a nutritional well balanced meal. It seems some are make judgments on others for doing the same thing.

So then what is the difference? Obviously when you get to 300 lbs, then that would be a sign... but those that got to 300 lbs clearly are not wired the same as those that do not, for what ever reason that may be... because evolutionarily... if that is a word... nobody is hard wired to be 400 lbs.

Originally posted by dmiller5

So you say these things, but lets apply your logic to something else. Sex is tied to the pleasure center right? so how could someone possibly help themselves from committing rape. (no, i'm not comparing being fat to rape) My point is only just because your body wants something, doesn't mean you have to give in to that desire. There isn't something wrong with their on/off buttons, their signals are working fine. Everyone's body wants calories and food. I'm in some state of hunger most of the day. I choose when and what I eat. I reach for a healthier food in moderate portions instead of a supersized big mac meal. Most animals spend their entire lives trying to get food or trying to have sex, humans aren't much different. What humans have however is self awareness and the ability to deny these impulses. So yes, I agree with Sous' statement, even if it does sound harsh. If you're obese it is because you have made stupid and/or lazy decisions for YEARS. It isn't the one chocolate bar I had today because I wanted a guilty pleasure. It is the accumulation of poor eating and lack of excercise over an entire lifetime.

Originally posted by Goosedog  I understand what you're saying. But I would want to know what percentage of obese people have a physiological problem with their on/off switch. I assume there is a percentage of obese people that just like to eat and don't like to exercise - without a problem with their on/off switch. I think some people's reaction to this being classified as a disease focuses on the later.

Originally posted by powerman

See, you have self control issues when it comes to snarky remarks. You should only post well balanced ones.

Why don't you look at my post. People do not have the "choice" to eat, we all have to eat. People here are commenting on "well balanced" appropriate meals... yet everyone here... I feel confident saying that... eats for other reasons besides a nutritional well balanced meal. It seems some are make judgments on others for doing the same thing.

So then what is the difference? Obviously when you get to 300 lbs, then that would be a sign... but those that got to 300 lbs clearly are not wired the same as those that do not, for what ever reason that may be... because evolutionarily... if that is a word... nobody is hard wired to be 400 lbs.

Originally posted by powerman

Thanks for letting me know that my mother is a POS. I'm still scratching my head why this post and poster are still here.

 

There are a whole myriad of reasons for obesity, lack of self control being just one of them. I always love it when police officers share their contempt for the people they are supposed to be serving and who pay their pay check. You are doing a grate job. But don't mind me... I'm just another POS with self control problems of my own... so I realize my opinion does not matter to you.

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly


No self control + poor dietary choices = obesity.

Originally posted by dmiller5 You clearly don't understand evolution. We are hard wired to be able to put on fat. For the first 99.9999% of human existence food was hard to come by so if you couldn't store up for the lean times you were toast. Now we are surrounded by food, and our bodies still scream EAT IT EAT IT to store up for the hard times. There isn't anything wrong with you, you are wired to be that way, everyone is. The difference is some people choose to make choices that they know are healthy, and some people don't.

Originally posted by Sous

Clearly you didn't see my other post, but that is neither here nor there... fact is very simple and indisputable.

Weight gain is linked to the simple fact of calories in and calories out.  If you have too little self control on the "in" side and are too lazy to boost the "out" side then you get fat.  Simple.

I will again state that there are certain conditions, medications, etc.  that can affect the balance and make things much more difficult but in the end it still comes down to calories in and calories out.

Originally posted by dmiller5 So you say these things, but lets apply your logic to something else. Sex is tied to the pleasure center right? so how could someone possibly help themselves from committing rape. (no, i'm not comparing being fat to rape) My point is only just because your body wants something, doesn't mean you have to give in to that desire. There isn't something wrong with their on/off buttons, their signals are working fine. Everyone's body wants calories and food. I'm in some state of hunger most of the day. I choose when and what I eat. I reach for a healthier food in moderate portions instead of a supersized big mac meal. Most animals spend their entire lives trying to get food or trying to have sex, humans aren't much different. What humans have however is self awareness and the ability to deny these impulses. So yes, I agree with Sous' statement, even if it does sound harsh. If you're obese it is because you have made stupid and/or lazy decisions for YEARS. It isn't the one chocolate bar I had today because I wanted a guilty pleasure. It is the accumulation of poor eating and lack of excercise over an entire lifetime.

Originally posted by Kido

For the record, I responded to your post prior to your edit.  When all it simply said was what I quoted.  Maybe it was a bit snarky, but I was a bit surprised that when I mentioned drinking and eating when alcohol and obesity was the topic you didn't seem to understand I was referring to alchohol and over eating.  Neither of which you would die if you didn't partake.

I assumed you DID know what I meant, and purely wanted to goad me into some argument over semantics.  Sorry I made that assumption.

So to set the record straight, I think you have the choice to drink ALCOHOL and/or OVER eat, even if it's a hard choice.  Hopefully that clears things up.

Originally posted by powerman

No you stated your position very clearly with no sugar coating... don't bother back peddling now.

Originally posted by Kido

Though I understand your point.  I would be very hesitant to bring "rape" into the conversation.  It's also probably suited for it's own thread.

Rape is generally accepted to be power/violence thing, not a sexual thing.  People generally don't commit that crime because the pleasure of sex drives them, but the power and injury it does to someone.

Now if you said people get on with their daily lives (go to work, take care of the house) instead of screwing all day, it may be a better analogy.  However, there are addicts that HAVE lost jobs and lost everything to screw, or gamble, or a multitude of other addictions.  Diseases or addictions - all of this is serious stuff.  I'm only trying to discuss the word "disease".

I seriously don't care what people call it.  It's a serious issue whatever the name.  I personally think addiction is just as acceptable a word.  It can be a physical, mental or emotional addiction.  I guess I personally don't like the word "disease" for it.  Not to say that addiction or disease is any way better or worse than each other.

Originally posted by powerman

We all have regulation mechanisms. Yes, we all had the ability to store fat. Being 400 lbs is not an evolutionary good place to be. Being fat and lazy was not a good thing... those people died and got ate a long time ago. There is a whole host of brain chemistry that happens when we do/become things.When normal people feel like crap, they stop doing what makes them feel like crap. I'm sure there is portion that "choose" to do it because they are lazy or just plain don't care... but others are not that simple.

One study on alcoholism actually found alcoholics process it differently... some is turned into a very powerful opiate instead of serotonin. Normal people process some into serotonin... So when a normal person drinks too much, they actually feel like crap and stop doing it, alcoholics actually feel better and keep doing it. Just one small example.

Originally posted by powerman 

And I hear that from obese too... they don't have a choice to stop eating like an alcoholic has with drinking alcohol. I'm torn on that one. I see the "thinking" as the same... yet 3 times a day they do have to engage in their "addiction". I do not know how to resolve that one.

Originally posted by lisac957

This is a really interesting point.

Originally posted by lisac957

This is a really interesting point.

Originally posted by Sous

Pretty sure I'm not back peddling at all.  Sometimes the facts have to stated plainly and simply... that is what's wrong with this county we turn a blind eye, we look for excuses, we try to blame everyone and everything except ourselves... yet when someone points out the glaring facts that aren't so pretty they are the bad guy because they didn't sugar coat it.  Get over it.

Originally posted by wannabefaster

My college roommate and his sister were adopted. His parents were morbidly obese. He and his sister were very skinny and attractive. Through a quirk of fate, his parents had a child (biological, they didn't think that they could have children which was why they adopted) after they adopted. His younger brother was morbidly obese. All three kids were raised in the same house. There wasn't that much difference in age or environment. Yet, the adopted kids were skinny and the biologic child (of obese parents) was obese. It kind of argues for some component of genetics. I'm not arguing that his brother couldn't have put down the fork but I think that this goes deeper than just will power. No one wants to be obese. No one wants to be an alcoholic or drug addict. Some people just end up that way.

I always found this interesting. I don't know what it says or what conclusions you can draw, but it certainly was interesting.......

Originally posted by Kido

I understand there are some serious physical drives for some people.  Even genetically different as you mentioned.  The choice may be tougher with food since you have to eat SOMETHING to survive, so it's in you house.  But alcochol?  I understand it can be "impossible" to stop if it's in your hand or resist if you have a bottle in your house.

But don't you have a choice when you are at the store to not buy it?  Or not go to the bar?

I'm a junk food nut.  Love it.  But knowing that, I simply don't put my self in the position to have it.  I have always felt about addictions is that it's easier to control the positions you put yourself in, rather than control the addiction itself.

If I needed to cheat on my wife, it's easier to just not be alone with another woman, that be alone with one and then say no to sex.

Drinking?  It's easier to not put myself in a bar, or buy it, than go to a bar and try not drink.

Junk food?  It's easier not to buy it, than buy it, have it in you house, and not eat it.

Gambling?  It's easier to not go to the casino than go and try to refrain from betting.

If I loved to argue?  Just don't go into CoJ, rather than go, then try to refrain fom arguing.

 

I think controlling the positions you put yourself in is far easier than putting yourself into the position to feed the addiction then try to refuse it.

Originally posted by lisac957

This is a really interesting point.

Originally posted by Kido

I understand there are some serious physical drives for some people.  Even genetically different as you mentioned.  The choice may be tougher with food since you have to eat SOMETHING to survive, so it's in you house.  But alcochol?  I understand it can be "impossible" to stop if it's in your hand or resist if you have a bottle in your house.

But don't you have a choice when you are at the store to not buy it?  Or not go to the bar?

I'm a junk food nut.  Love it.  But knowing that, I simply don't put my self in the position to have it.  I have always felt about addictions is that it's easier to control the positions you put yourself in, rather than control the addiction itself.

If I needed to cheat on my wife, it's easier to just not be alone with another woman, that be alone with one and then say no to sex.

Drinking?  It's easier to not put myself in a bar, or buy it, than go to a bar and try not drink. Yes

Junk food?  It's easier not to buy it, than buy it, have it in you house, and not eat it. You still have to go to the store and buy food. You still have to eat.

Gambling?  It's easier to not go to the casino than go and try to refrain from betting. Yes

If I loved to argue?  Just don't go into CoJ, rather than go, then try to refrain fom arguing. Yes

 

I think controlling the positions you put yourself in is far easier than putting yourself into the position to feed the addiction then try to refuse it.

Originally posted by Kido

It's a very valid point.  You can't avoid food.

However, if it was simply filling your belly, it would be VERY difficult to get obese on salads/veggies/fruit.  You simply can't eat enough.  There is also the choice you have on what you eat.  It's a combination of over eating and high calorie foods and drinks.  A lot has to go back the pleasure center of the brain for all that.

As I mentioned above.  Since it's hard to control "eating", especially when you HAVE to do it 3 or more times a day, you can control the position you put yourself in by not buying soda or beer or pizza or going to fast food places.  It is FAR easier for me to not walk into a Burger King than to go into one and force myself into getting a salad when all that good stuff is right there in front of me.

Instead of trying to resist my temptations, I refuse to put myself into a position to be tempted.  Maybe it's a backwards fix, but it's far easier for me.  I would think it IMPOSSIBLE to enjoy a salad over a slice of pizza, no way, no how - so I just don't buy frozen pizzas and feel forced to make the choice.