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Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests (Page 2)
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 2015-12-04 5:29 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Veteran  1677     Houston, Texas |  Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike TestsContrary to Jason's seven minute remark, I think it comes about 12 minutes in -- if, at that point, you don't start thinking, "I want to quit, but if I do, I'm going to have to do this over again....and I'm well over half way thought this....and there's only eight minutes left to go...." you're doing something wrong! Good luck, and hurt badly on your test....it's gonna hurt, but push through! |
| 2015-12-04 5:35 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by Jason N Kind of wanted to see him figure that out on his own. That's not entirely snarky either as I've actually shown a bit better on the trainer.Originally posted by Scott71 Thanks, but that also gives merrit to what's been creeping in the back of my mind the last couple of months; that I don't work nearly as hard as I think I do...or at least not compared to others. I always thought I was a mentally tough person, but this sport is making me think I have a lot of work to do in that department. I also don't perform well at the 20 minute test, so I don't have much advice for you. The biggest problem for me is RPE on an indoor ride vs outdoor ride. For my last Sprint I averaged around 240 watts for over 1/2 hour. It was tough but manageable and not a soul sucking effort. For the threshold sessions I'm doing on the trainer now, I need to hold that wattage for only 5 minutes and it feels like an eternity. Same PM so its not a question of different readings too. I'm the same way on the trainer...can't hold the same power. So maybe I should qualify my 260 estimation. I believe 3mar can hold 260 for 20 minutes if it was an outdoor all out time trial. It may be much more difficult for him to his 260 on the trainer for 20 minutes. I know I can't match my 20' power outdoors on the trainer. But his 20' trainer power is still way higher than 216. And what the heck are you people doing in that there is only one of those points in such an effort?? |
| 2015-12-04 5:36 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests I get both and more. At 7 minutes I am hating life and think there is no hope of making it. At 11 minutes I start to think that I'm on the downslope now so there is hope. Then around 17 minutes I think I'm almost done and try to go harder. 45 seconds after that I start to gasp and realize that going harder was stupid. With 30s to go I figure I can bump up the number by 1.more.watt.... |
| 2015-12-04 8:04 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by JohnnyKay Originally posted by reecealan I wouldn't worry about it too much. Stick with the program, retest in 7 weeks or so. I was in their mentor group a couple years ago and I learned a lot and have had good improvements on the bike because of it. Go with the CP you have now, you may see a change when you retest, it will definitely go up if you stick with the plan. He's going to 'see' an increase whether he sticks with the plan or not. The CP he has now form his tests is too low. Upon further reflection and looking at my recent tests I agree 100% on the retest. This is one of the reasons I do not like to test a lot. I see people "not testing well" or "pacing wrong" or "didn't go hard enough", etc. All these tests do is setup your watt ranges for some specific interval sessions. The problem is that some people get sucked into the hole of getting a good "accurate" test, then sacrifice time they can be putting into training to resting, recovery, retesting, etc. Even if you test "poorly", you still get numbers to build your training off. Take those numbers, apply a stress, recover from it, adapt, repeat, and progress will happen. Sometimes I think people make things a bit more difficult then they need to be. This is why I like repeat sessions. Did it get easier? did it feel easier? Great, add more stress, and adapt again. Great way to measure if you are improving without formally testing. People like validation in numbers and are not patient enough to see validation come from performance. Sorry to hijack, just want to put my opinion and what I have seen and experienced with athletes before. |
| 2015-12-04 8:08 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by 3mar One other question I had; are you supposed to stay in aero position the whole time? I've found I can push a bit more power sitting up (not standing on the pedals but sitting like on a road bike) but wasn't sure if this was "legal" for this testing. My thought process was if you are training to go faster in aero position, you should be in aero position all the time while training. I'll admit I did sit up for about 30 seconds this morning around minute 3 but went back in aero for the last minute and a half. Probably not. I assume you are testing for winter training, not an upcoming race? Your training probably doesn't need that much specificity, especially in early December. Plus riding in aero inside on a trainer is not the same as riding outside in aero, therefore the specificity of the position is flawed. It probably won't effect your training numbers enough to make a big enough difference in your training. The goal of the test is to see how much power you can push in a given set of time, so just make sure you do that. |
| 2015-12-04 8:21 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by reecealan This is one of the reasons I do not like to test a lot. I see people "not testing well" or "pacing wrong" or "didn't go hard enough", etc. All these tests do is setup your watt ranges for some specific interval sessions. The problem is that some people get sucked into the hole of getting a good "accurate" test, then sacrifice time they can be putting into training to resting, recovery, retesting, etc. Even if you test "poorly", you still get numbers to build your training off. Take those numbers, apply a stress, recover from it, adapt, repeat, and progress will happen. Sometimes I think people make things a bit more difficult then they need to be. This is why I like repeat sessions. Did it get easier? did it feel easier? Great, add more stress, and adapt again. Great way to measure if you are improving without formally testing. People like validation in numbers and are not patient enough to see validation come from performance. Sorry to hijack, just want to put my opinion and what I have seen and experienced with athletes before. Originally posted by JohnnyKay Upon further reflection and looking at my recent tests I agree 100% on the retest. Originally posted by reecealan I wouldn't worry about it too much. Stick with the program, retest in 7 weeks or so. I was in their mentor group a couple years ago and I learned a lot and have had good improvements on the bike because of it. Go with the CP you have now, you may see a change when you retest, it will definitely go up if you stick with the plan. He's going to 'see' an increase whether he sticks with the plan or not. The CP he has now form his tests is too low. x2. I don't test often either. Only time I do feel it is necessary is when training specifically for a TT that lasts 20-30 minutes. Because then the purpose shifts from setting workout interval targets to actually setting a goal race wattage to target. |
| 2015-12-05 4:54 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by 3mar One other question I had; are you supposed to stay in aero position the whole time? I've found I can push a bit more power sitting up (not standing on the pedals but sitting like on a road bike) but wasn't sure if this was "legal" for this testing. My thought process was if you are training to go faster in aero position, you should be in aero position all the time while training. I'll admit I did sit up for about 30 seconds this morning around minute 3 but went back in aero for the last minute and a half. No big deal if you came up a bit, but I would try and test in the same position I plan to train. |
| 2015-12-06 7:08 AM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by reecealan This is one of the reasons I do not like to test a lot. I see people "not testing well" or "pacing wrong" or "didn't go hard enough", etc. All these tests do is setup your watt ranges for some specific interval sessions. The problem is that some people get sucked into the hole of getting a good "accurate" test, then sacrifice time they can be putting into training to resting, recovery, retesting, etc. Even if you test "poorly", you still get numbers to build your training off. Take those numbers, apply a stress, recover from it, adapt, repeat, and progress will happen. Sometimes I think people make things a bit more difficult then they need to be. This is why I like repeat sessions. Did it get easier? did it feel easier? Great, add more stress, and adapt again. Great way to measure if you are improving without formally testing. People like validation in numbers and are not patient enough to see validation come from performance. Sorry to hijack, just want to put my opinion and what I have seen and experienced with athletes before. Originally posted by JohnnyKay Upon further reflection and looking at my recent tests I agree 100% on the retest. Originally posted by reecealan I wouldn't worry about it too much. Stick with the program, retest in 7 weeks or so. I was in their mentor group a couple years ago and I learned a lot and have had good improvements on the bike because of it. Go with the CP you have now, you may see a change when you retest, it will definitely go up if you stick with the plan. He's going to 'see' an increase whether he sticks with the plan or not. The CP he has now form his tests is too low. x2. I don't test often either. Only time I do feel it is necessary is when training specifically for a TT that lasts 20-30 minutes. Because then the purpose shifts from setting workout interval targets to actually setting a goal race wattage to target. I am on board with this as well. I have tested twice in 2015. Once in February and once this past week. During the year I adapted some additional targets based on performance during training rides. Throughout the year I edged up about 15 watts on estimations rather than testing and I was able to keep moving on. Sure, as mention bcagle, I things had gotten easier and harder and easier and.... But that's when the intervals were making the difference. Adaptations can happen and adjustments can be made and a better bike fitness can be developed just the same. Pay attention to your body is the real lesson to learn. |
| 2015-12-06 6:27 PM in reply to: DirkP |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests I actually tested in January and when I tested again to establish a baseline winter start point a couple weeks ago, I was 10% higher on my CP. This was my biggest year mileage wise riding and I did a lot of group rides with road racers (trying to stay on their wheels). Also when I do interval workouts, I'll set the power higher than what the workout suggests from time to time if I think I can hold it. That has proved to be beneficial in terms of net results. |
| 2015-12-06 9:34 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests The first rule of testing is to ignore the first test. like others have said, if it's your first one it's likely you can perform it better next time. Use what you've done now as a guide but if you wait unti the perfect day to do a test you'll never get them done. Just do them what it seems reasonable unless you have a really good reason not to...and keep going. Don't obsesses over the results. They results shouldn't be a big surprise, they should just inform your ongoing training. |
| 2015-12-07 9:29 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Good points of view from both sides (to test or not to test) but I think I'm going to test again on my next scheduled trainer workout on Wednesday. Although I could estimate my ftp for workouts, this is 100% new to me and it's becoming clear that my internal calibration on cycling is pretty off. So to go forward on training, I really feel I need a good benchmark to go off of until I get to a point where I know what different workouts (intervals, tempos, enduracne, etc) actually feel like. Looking over the last couple of weeks, the 216 for the first test just doesn't make sense. I did an interval workout last Tuesday that had a 20 minute max of 210 and that was in the middle of a 1 hr workout and included rest periods into the average. I think it's pretty obvious the number isn't right, and since I have limited experience, I'd rather get a solid number to go off of and do this right than guess. |
| 2015-12-07 1:42 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests At this point, retesting might be a good idea for you. The main thing is to realize it's not necessary to test often, or that a test is not necessary to confirm any movement in FTP. Every power workout you do is basically some form of a test. Just like that workout you mentioned above. It's a data point that's telling you something. When workouts based on your FTP get too easy, you know your FTP is rising or needs adjustment. And vice versa. |
| 2015-12-07 8:41 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Time between 20 min and 5 min Bike Tests Originally posted by 3mar Good points of view from both sides (to test or not to test) but I think I'm going to test again on my next scheduled trainer workout on Wednesday. Although I could estimate my ftp for workouts, this is 100% new to me and it's becoming clear that my internal calibration on cycling is pretty off. So to go forward on training, I really feel I need a good benchmark to go off of until I get to a point where I know what different workouts (intervals, tempos, enduracne, etc) actually feel like. Looking over the last couple of weeks, the 216 for the first test just doesn't make sense. I did an interval workout last Tuesday that had a 20 minute max of 210 and that was in the middle of a 1 hr workout and included rest periods into the average. I think it's pretty obvious the number isn't right, and since I have limited experience, I'd rather get a solid number to go off of and do this right than guess. You are still learning your work capacity. Maybe do some workouts to push you and learn when you push too hard or not enough? something like 10x1' at your best even effort on 3' easy. Make sure you watts are consistent throughout, see if you can up in the next week, or add 1' intervals, or progress to 5x2 minutes? This are good sessions where the intensity is still there, but you get lots of rest so the recovery post is a bit better and it will teach you what your work capacity is so you can have a better test the next time. Just some food for thought. |
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| Silly question, 45 min swim then 90 min run workout directly after | ||
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| 10 min./mi to 8 min/mi--how?? Pages: 1 2 |
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