Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 21)

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Great.  Having two great swimmers (Steve  and James) in the group is wonderful.   I am always in awe of those who have swimming as their "strength".  When I use my fins and get my legs moving, it is the one time that I get even a small taste of what it is like to move through the water with some speed.

What's everyone doing training wise today?

I swam 62', will run not sure how long depends on my knee/pes anserine and if there is any pain, plus ride CT at IM watts later today.

I'm pleased that I did some FTP intervals yesterday that my knee didn't hurt while doing and was same if not better today so bodes well that I can start working harder on the bike. I rode at FTP watts from last time I tested before IM and felt doable so hoping with even the little I've been riding since IMFL that I might not have lost much.

As much as swimming can frustrate me at times, doing the finding freestyle program makes it interesting. Two fun drills I did last two days were swim 50 first easy then fast kicking 2 beats per stroke cycle, then 3 per stroke cycle then 4 per cycle then my choice. Getting three kicks per stroke cycle was hard..ended up going bigger kick right then two little kicks left to keep legs timed with right. Today I did 3 kicks with only one leg every stroke cycle for 50 then switch legs. Not surprising my left leg could do it better than my right. Right leg tends to want to kick harder and left leg kick is weaker and so doing easier kicks seems more natural.

Other big plus with swimming is almost every time I get out of the pool my left knee feels much better than when I got in the pool mostly the osteoarthritis pain not so much the pes anserine issue I have.

Good news about being able to ride at FTP Kathy.  

I've had a similar experience with swimming - my various aches and pains (below the shoulders) usually feel better after a swim.

Welcome aboard James.  Feel free to spread some of those swimming secrets around, some of us could use the help.

Hey James - welcome aboard. I sure appreciated reading your insights and contributions on last year's IMLP thread - there are a few of us in this group that are racing IMPLP this year, and a couple of us for the first time. For me it will be my first IM as well. Any and all advice is welcomed!

Hey Kathy and Fred - sorry, I only realized by your responses that my question was not clear enough - sorry for that! Like I said, I have very, very detailed logs spanning the past 20 years. I refer to them frequently, especially for pre and post race analysis, illness prevention etc. No doubt they are both important AND interesting! To restate my question better: does the group find it useful and/or interesting to look at OTHER'S logs? I have added everyone (I think?) in the group to my friends list so you should now be able to see mine. The only reason mine was not shared before was simply because there was no data in it. I have gone back and added the past couple of weeks and will keep it up to date moving forward if folks here find it of interest.

I wish I could figure out a simpler way other than copy/paste and hand entry to keep all my logs in sync. Between my laptop client software that I use (iSmartTrain) and TrainingPeaks  it is pretty simple: they both import and export a variety of file formats that are cross compatible. The BT import functions however seem currently pretty limited, but I know from reading other threads it is being worked on, so no real complaints about that. As for TrainingPeaks data "going away" if I stop using my coach, that is not really true - I would just fall back to a free account which has a reduced feature set like here on BT. My real concern would instead be with BT, TP, or any "cloud-based" service itself going away.

I am a little freaky about data backup (horrible, horrible experience about 10 years ago!) I see my client data as my primary source of logging info - TP (and now BT) logs are both just a way to communicate the info to others who have an interest. I have an an hourly snapshot of my desktop app, a daily backup, and then a weekly raw database dump of the log info. That information goes to 3 locations: a home backup server, a backup server at work, and to a cloud-based service. If that is not enough, I also print a data sheet of each day's log and put it in a 3 ring binder, just in case. Like I said, freaky!

Does anyone else have any better strategies for sharing data between logging apps?

I had a 6 mile easy run this morning--started off really easy cause I just couldn't get moving. I much more prefer morning workouts and running, but especially when it is a little cool (not cold--just in the 40's, so cool--nothing like the crazy weather some of you have right now!!), it takes me a bit to get going! I have a swim to do this evening. I do most of my swims in a 50m pool, but due to off-season hours, I can't get to it on the days I have class cause it's closed, so I'll be at a 25yd pool--let's see if I hit my head going into the wall cause I forget that it's shorter!   I wish I was a super fish in the water and loved the swim more. I work on it cause it's important for Triathlon, and there are times (few and far between) that I have really enjoyed the swim leg (thankfully, my first Ironman was one of the best swim experiences I've had)--but often my motivation in the swim is that it takes me to the bike!

I do enjoy looking at other's training.

I do sometimes look at other's training over time compared to races to see how things flowed and the like.

My coach turned off my account TP when I took time off from coaching after IM and I can't access the data from the time he coached me. My free account doesn't access that data. When I go back to coaching this month I'll be curious if I can see last year's data..hoping so.

When I enter both TP and BT I just cut and paste one to another and may add comments to either my BT or TP training.

Is it worth it to do? Only you can answer that.

Hey Kathy - I am about to head out for a "10k step-up" run. One of my least-favorites, but I have never found anything better that helps my late-race run.

15~20 minute warm up.
3k in endurance run zone
3k in steady state
2k in tempo
2k whatever you have left.
15~20 cool down.



Same results here. And with all of the mixing it up that I have been doing for the past three months, it is even better. For years and years I would just hammer out reps of 50's, 100's, 200's, freestyle ladders, etc. Now I am swimming WAY longer distances than ever, getting faster, feel great, and for the most part (I am almost embarrassed to admit it to the group) really look forward to getting in the pool each week!

Randy, workout #3 sounds like the winner of the day...new bikes...oh I love new bikes....have fun with your torque wrenches getting the new bike set up.

Photos when you are done please!

Very happy to see you joining the group James!

Lots of folks doing IMWI and IMLP here.

Another question...what is your thoughts on ROI (return on investment) for swimming in regards to IM or HIM training?

I'm not a time limited triathlete unlike most of you as I don't work and mostly have my days pretty free when our kids are in school.

I upped my swimming 4x a week swam 308K yds last year, and I was 6 minutes faster in my IM. I do think I can out of the water fresher than in previous IMs.

Would the 1.5-2 hours it takes to get the 4th swim workout in be better spent riding? Would those extra 40 swim hours or 80 hours of time it takes to swim 40 hours be better spent doing something else?

What do you guys think? I know this is a hotly debated topic for many IM folks.

WOW!  This is moving faster the last years IMLP thread.
 
I don’t know about swimming secrets but I may have some ideas.  I hope these don’t seem too trivial. 
 
When I help people the first thing I usual see and focus on is the body position in the water.  Are they prone, straight and hydrodynamic thru the water?  Does correct body position continue thru the stroke? 
 
So the Front Glide the most basic of swimming position.  The Front Glide starts in the streamline position.
 
Streamline Position:
1.  Arms extended overhead.
2.  Hands clasped together on top of each other.
3.  Elbows straight.
4.  Arms against the ears.
5.  Head parallel with shoulder.
6.  Legs extended together toes pointed to the rear, ankles and knees touching as much as possible.
7.  Your body core should be straight and relaxed
 
Practice Front Glide drill
1.  At the wall, drop down to your shoulders are submerge.
2.  Push off the wall.  Use the same force each time and it does not need to be much.  You can be complete submerged when pushing off the wall but just under the water.
3.  Get into the Streamline Position.  This happens as soon as you are pushing off the wall.
 
Imagine yourself a dart or an arrow flying threw the air as straight as possible.  If imagining yourself as superman make sure your head is parallel with shoulder.  In the water in the Front Glide position you’re facing the lane lines on the bottom of the pool not forward.  The purpose is distance.  The father you go on the glide with the same force the more streamline you are and equals good body positioning. 
 
The following show the Freestyle Stroke returning to that Streamline Position with the exception of hands clasped together on top of each. 

Whoo - yikes! That does not sound what was explained to me, but I certainly trust your actual experience 100%. Sounds like something I need to clarify ASAP. I am really glad I brought it up. Good think I have my log information stored in 37 different places!

Torque wrenches? You don't need no stinkin' torque wrenches....
Just make sure you lubricate everything REALLY well with WD40 and you will be fine....

That is really exciting Randy - can't wait to see!

TB the days of German torq of Good-n Tight with carbon are out or it might be Good-n cracked.

 

Edited by tasr 2011-01-07 12:38 PM

This seems strange to me and I don’t want it too be about me.  It feels like some sort of weird rebirth.  I feel if you know a little about me then you’ll understand where I came from.  Then maybe were I am going.  Maybe even understand my communication in type.  That can be a challenge for me as well.
 
 
NAME: tasr/James
 
MY STORY:  I returned to triathlon training and racing in Jan 2008 after a 20+ year break.  20+ years back is when I was got hooked on tri’s during a off season of cycling racing.  I did well for myself; making it to a CAT II cyclist and qualifying for Kona at a half iron event.  For fun I ran the original Ironman course on Oahu in the mid 80’s.
 
Why I stopped training and racing.  I really don’t know but for certain it was not an overnight event.  Life changes us.  I was in the military at the time and foreign travels stopped my racing.  Poor lifestyle decisions followed.  So that is that.
 
What brought me back was Gods grace.  Wakening up in my life after seeing too many of my family and friends die from cancer as well as poor lifestyles.  After I killed the evil James I made a commitment to ride the LIVESTRONG Challenge in Philly 07’.  Little did I know that this commitment did more good for me than I knew.  Now again I enjoy the pure love of training, the life style and competition of triathlons.  Since my return I’ve competed in 14 triathlons with 6 half iron distances and 2 Ironmans. 
 
FAMILY: Married to the best support and mother of 3 fine young adults.
 
CURRENT TRAINING:  As of the New Year and not as a resolutionist I assure you.  My current weekly training will be 10-12hr with a build of 20+ hr per week prior to IMWI in Sep 11’.  My training is very unorthodox but is working very well for me.  I use no coach, follow no set plan except the one in my head projected about 2 weeks out.  I see the goal and know what I need to get there.  I train primarily with Rating of Perceived Exertion (RPE) with heart rate (HR) as a limiter.  In the winter I ride a Computrainer using power.   
 
I am a natural swimmer, a good cyclist but my running needs a lot of work.  I have plenty of swim and cycling endurance.  I really love long hilly rides and still need to continue to improve on the bike.  For me several 100+ miles long rides have worked well in my Ironman training.  My biggest effort is the long run.  Really doesn’t matter if it’s a stand alone marathon or a marathon in an Ironman.  I pretty much get the same results.  I much rather do an Ironman than a stand alone marathon.
 
LAST YEAR's RACES:  I did OK despite hitting a wall with high iron in my blood.  I am pretty sure it killed my endurance especially for the last half of the year.  I think I’ll end up with Honorable Mention in the USAT ratings for a second year. 
 
2011 RACES:  Well I am currently registered for three races; Columbia Tri, Eagleman 70.3 and IMWI.  I am sure to sneak in a few somewhere.  My real focus is IMWI and really hope I can pull off something tremendous in the M45-49 AG.  I’ll be racing at the top of my AG this year so it will definitely be a challenge.
 
WEIGHT LOSS GOALS:  165lbs is my comfortable race weight.  I am not there yet.
 
MY INTERESTED IN THIS GROUP:  Fred is a good friend.  I have done a few races with him and plan on a few more.  He has a TON of experience to share.  I am a bit more reserved and quite.  I hope to be active and help or contribute where I can.
 
 
OK not so bad! 

I am having a tough time coming up with an answer for you Kathy. 
 
I think if you improved by upping your swims then that’s what you needed.  Withstand if it is the ROI for you I would say how did the rest (Bike and Run) fair?  If you improved or stayed the same on the (Bike and Run) then yes the ROI was in your favor?  If not and the bike suffered or run suffered well provide your swim fitness doesn’t drop then you can refocus some time back to the bike and run. 
 
I sure hope I didn’t make that complicated. 

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