SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 21)
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KateTri1 - 2013-01-02 2:19 PM Sorry to bug you guys with more questions but, browsing X-Lab items on Amazon for a rear mounted bottle holder. I like the XLAB SUPER WING, Black and the XLAB Gorilla XT Carbon Cage (Black). What do you guys think? You might want to check out Profile Design, they have a much cheaper option. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rymac - 2013-01-03 8:30 AM Finally over the never-ending head cold!! I thought my 6 mile race on New Years day might set me back but got it all out! To welcome myself back to the pain cave...I had 3x15' @95-100%FTP this morning at 5:15 a.m. A really pleasant way to wake myself up LOL. That third interval the clock moves backwards I swear! Struggled to hold 95% but glad my energy is almost back to normal and can hit workouts again. Nice going! Don't think I've ever been able to bring myself to work like that on the bike so early in the morning. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-03 8:46 AM TSS (Training Stress Score) basically uses both Intensity (IF) and duration of the ride to give a score for the *size* of the workout. Instead of just using miles or time, it factors in the intensity as well, since going harder means more effort was put into it. This helps to quantify the physiological cost of more effort or more time, or however the two are moved around. It doesn't really describe the type of workout it was, but just the size of it, so to speak. ETA: So a 15x1', 2 x 20' or basic aerobic riding can all be made about the same size in terms of physiological cost, but they affect different things due to the intensities they are ridden at.
Yep. TSS is a great place to start and I won't add to your description because it's pretty good. An interesting concept is adding up TSS for the week rather than hours. This is actually how I measure my training load. Tougher weeks were more than 1100 TSS points across all 3 sports. Last week I did 750. TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it. TSS on the run is similar but is computed from your threshold pace, the pace you are running and the time you run TSS on the swim is like the run, it's based on threshold pace and time I really hope that the people that think this is greek will ask questions or show interest or else we will lose them. How do we avoid this ? Once we get everyone on board with TSS, maybe we could post a Performance Chart which shows training load over time, tapering, peeking for races......
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![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 8:30 AM TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it So what if you do not use power? Will someone tell the outdoors I live in AZ and to warm up? |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 10:30 AM brigby1 - 2013-01-03 8:46 AM TSS (Training Stress Score) basically uses both Intensity (IF) and duration of the ride to give a score for the *size* of the workout. Instead of just using miles or time, it factors in the intensity as well, since going harder means more effort was put into it. This helps to quantify the physiological cost of more effort or more time, or however the two are moved around. It doesn't really describe the type of workout it was, but just the size of it, so to speak. ETA: So a 15x1', 2 x 20' or basic aerobic riding can all be made about the same size in terms of physiological cost, but they affect different things due to the intensities they are ridden at.
Yep. TSS is a great place to start and I won't add to your description because it's pretty good. An interesting concept is adding up TSS for the week rather than hours. This is actually how I measure my training load. Tougher weeks were more than 1100 TSS points across all 3 sports. Last week I did 750. TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it. TSS on the run is similar but is computed from your threshold pace, the pace you are running and the time you run TSS on the swim is like the run, it's based on threshold pace and time I really hope that the people that think this is greek will ask questions or show interest or else we will lose them. How do we avoid this ? Once we get everyone on board with TSS, maybe we could post a Performance Chart which shows training load over time, tapering, peeking for races......
For me, maybe French vs Greek. It's a bit like when I worked in Paris and could follow some of the conversation but not necessarily speak/join in. Doesn't mean I'm not interested. One thing that might help is define some of the acronyms the first few times you use them and how they're calculated. I'm probably not going to train with power this year but I would like to learn. Also, if there are ways to apply the concepts to other training approaches (for me that will be HR) it might keep ppl tracking. Regardless, keep the conversation going. Good stuff. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I get the TSS concept...but I feel like my volume is too low to have any significance to me as a metric. For instance I am doing 3-4 rides per week of which 2 are 1 hr rides and 1-2 are 1.5 hr rides. The 1 hr rides are typically in the 80-90 TSS range and the 1.5 hr rides in the 100-110 range. The long rides get longer as the season gets closer. I guess I don't have a lot of variability in my training from that standpoint where I look at weekly TSS (more just daily). Get on and ride hard. I do think that if I were training for HIM or IM it comes into play much more and I would pay much more attention. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 10:30 AM brigby1 - 2013-01-03 8:46 AM TSS (Training Stress Score) basically uses both Intensity (IF) and duration of the ride to give a score for the *size* of the workout. Instead of just using miles or time, it factors in the intensity as well, since going harder means more effort was put into it. This helps to quantify the physiological cost of more effort or more time, or however the two are moved around. It doesn't really describe the type of workout it was, but just the size of it, so to speak. ETA: So a 15x1', 2 x 20' or basic aerobic riding can all be made about the same size in terms of physiological cost, but they affect different things due to the intensities they are ridden at.
Yep. TSS is a great place to start and I won't add to your description because it's pretty good. An interesting concept is adding up TSS for the week rather than hours. This is actually how I measure my training load. Tougher weeks were more than 1100 TSS points across all 3 sports. Last week I did 750. TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it. TSS on the run is similar but is computed from your threshold pace, the pace you are running and the time you run TSS on the swim is like the run, it's based on threshold pace and time I really hope that the people that think this is greek will ask questions or show interest or else we will lose them. How do we avoid this ? Once we get everyone on board with TSS, maybe we could post a Performance Chart which shows training load over time, tapering, peeking for races......
This is helpful to me. I'll be reading along, but I have VERRRRY little to add. Learning time. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() A little insight to me LT test http://www.mamatris.blogspot.com/2013/01/reluctant-cyclist.html ... am not the type to make New Years resolutions but making friends with the bike is definitely one I need to make. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bzgl40 - 2013-01-03 9:33 AM marcag - 2013-01-03 8:30 AM TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it So what if you do not use power? Friel published a way of estimating TSS by HR. But it's just an estimate. The article is here In theory you could use the BT Logs to estimate the time spent in various HR zones and then calculate a TSS. Time in each Zone is a feature of the bronze level I believe For hoots, I did it for 2 weeks. It wasn't far off the TSS measured by power meter. It may be fun just to see how much TSS you did in a big week, but I am not sure I would want to manually calculate this all the time |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 10:30 AM brigby1 - 2013-01-03 8:46 AM TSS (Training Stress Score) basically uses both Intensity (IF) and duration of the ride to give a score for the *size* of the workout. Instead of just using miles or time, it factors in the intensity as well, since going harder means more effort was put into it. This helps to quantify the physiological cost of more effort or more time, or however the two are moved around. It doesn't really describe the type of workout it was, but just the size of it, so to speak. ETA: So a 15x1', 2 x 20' or basic aerobic riding can all be made about the same size in terms of physiological cost, but they affect different things due to the intensities they are ridden at.
Yep. TSS is a great place to start and I won't add to your description because it's pretty good. An interesting concept is adding up TSS for the week rather than hours. This is actually how I measure my training load. Tougher weeks were more than 1100 TSS points across all 3 sports. Last week I did 750. TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it. TSS on the run is similar but is computed from your threshold pace, the pace you are running and the time you run TSS on the swim is like the run, it's based on threshold pace and time I really hope that the people that think this is greek will ask questions or show interest or else we will lose them. How do we avoid this ? Once we get everyone on board with TSS, maybe we could post a Performance Chart which shows training load over time, tapering, peeking for races......
I like this idea and approach - like I mentioned, it's somewhere where I really want to improve my knowledge. I know what TSS is, and how to measure, but that's as far as it goes = useless info. I'm all for tracking, comparing, and getting a basic undertsanding of the physiological changes and stresses that occur once you reach certain thresholds. How are you measuring it for the swim and run? |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-03 10:20 AM I like this idea and approach - like I mentioned, it's somewhere where I really want to improve my knowledge. I know what TSS is, and how to measure, but that's as far as it goes = useless info. I'm all for tracking, comparing, and getting a basic undertsanding of the physiological changes and stresses that occur once you reach certain thresholds. How are you measuring it for the swim and run? TP calculates it for me based on my Threshold paces. I just upload my Garmin files. Raceday Apollo does the same. I think BT only does it for Power |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-02 11:08 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-03 9:33 AM marcag - 2013-01-03 8:30 AM TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it So what if you do not use power? Friel published a way of estimating TSS by HR. But it's just an estimate. The article is here In theory you could use the BT Logs to estimate the time spent in various HR zones and then calculate a TSS. Time in each Zone is a feature of the bronze level I believe For hoots, I did it for 2 weeks. It wasn't far off the TSS measured by power meter. It may be fun just to see how much TSS you did in a big week, but I am not sure I would want to manually calculate this all the time This is exactly what I need to see...I have no PM, go by HR primarily and love the idea of figuring out my loading based on TSS...and no worries about calculating by hand - that's what excel is for. I'll come up with some goofy spreadsheet for you all if anyone is interested. Please continue the discussions about metrics. It's a big black box to me - so even if I don't participate, I can absorb some knowledge. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KeriKadi - 2013-01-03 11:05 AM A little insight to me LT test http://www.mamatris.blogspot.com/2013/01/reluctant-cyclist.html ... am not the type to make New Years resolutions but making friends with the bike is definitely one I need to make.I just read your blog. The LT test sounded like an interesting experience. With your IM training it looks like 2013 will be a very cool year for you. I'll be happy to cheer you on :=) |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KateTri1 - 2013-01-01 1:04 PM So.... long rides. I've pretty much been in the 20 to 30 mile range but next month I am gonna have to do some that are a lot longer. Do you guys do a lot of long rides in groups.. alone? Have you ever gone crazy on a long ride.. alone? The 50 mile (which is pretty long to me) distance kind of freaks me out. <Yes - I'm a little slow to the party...sorry about that!> I approach long rides in two different, fairly distinct ways: 1) All by myself to build up my fortitude. I look at this time as an escape from the stress of my day to day work/home and just try to take pleasure in the world around, the fact that I'm outside, I have the ability to ride down the road, and I'm preparing myself for the ultimate event (my race). For these types of rides, I plan on having everything I need with me - so lots of gear/water/food/$$. The feeling of accomplishment when returning from a long solo ride is pretty great. 2) Meeting up with people. This can either be a group ride (that i can tack some distance on before or after), or a meet-up. Often, I'll ride my bike to where my family is going to be for the day. My husband's family has a beach house about 25 miles from our house. I'll set out before anyone is ready to go and meet them there...play in the sand/surf (maybe OWS depending on the water temp), spend time with the family and then ride home. For me - the easiest way to get from one distance (let's say 30 miles) to the next (let's say 56 so you are ready for the HIM) is to add 5 miles to each long ride...telling myself the entire time that I can ride 5 miles in my sleep...so an additional 5 miles is nothing. If you've got the time - this might be the least intimidating approach. I also really like the idea of loops - so you know you've got a place to pee, eat a snack, put some more sunscreen on, refill the water bottles, drop off extra clothes, change the shorts that are driving you batty. Good luck! If all else fails, just think of Yanti doing the 9-10 hour trainer ride preparing for her last IM...if she can do *that* - you can totally do 56 miles. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KeriKadi - 2013-01-03 11:05 AM A little insight to me LT test http://www.mamatris.blogspot.com/2013/01/reluctant-cyclist.html ... am not the type to make New Years resolutions but making friends with the bike is definitely one I need to make.Ain't testing fun |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() So - I had a bit of an epiphany in the last couple of days...as you all may already know - I have been struggling with a severe lack of mojo (due to a very frustrating HIM last Sept) and had hesitated signing up for any races because I was afraid of getting to that dark place again. On New Year's Eve (I know - how trite), I decided I was going to do the Patriot HIM again this year because I had such a great time last year at the race. I went to the web site knowing that prices go up Jan 1. I clicked on the Register button, selected "Individual" and clicked "Submit"...and it rejected it. What? After looking at the form a little more carefully - the Individual entries were SOLD OUT! Holy Cow! The race isn't until mid June! Good for the RDs...but deflated my brief excitement. I told my husband about it and he said, "Why don't you try to focus on one type of event instead of a tri?" Hmmm....but I like triathlon. And then I thought about it some more. He has a good point. Maybe I should. So, I thought about it some more. And I came to the conclusion that I would do the following for 2013: Great Bay Half Marathon April 7 (kind of hilly half marathon - this will be the third year in a row I will race), Vermont City Marathon Memorial Day weekend (I've run this as part of a relay team - it's in Burlington, VT and is a total blast...but I'm frightened of the distance which is a good thing), the two local tris (one sprint in July and one Oly in August), a couple of organized centuries on the bike and then see where fall takes me - either the Rev3 HIM in Old Orchard Beach (if they are still accepting entries when I get my courage up) or the Mount Desert Island Marathon in October. Once I got this figured out - suddenly, everything kind of clicked into place. Now I'm motivated again - partially by fear of the marathon distance, but also because I'm not feeling overwhelmed by the concept of all that training. And a little part of my pea brain is saying, "Perfect - this is great for setting a base for that 2014 IM you've been thinking about." So - bring on those long runs and long bikes...I've got this. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-03 10:20 AMI know what TSS is, and how to measure, but that's as far as it goes = useless info. I'm all for tracking, comparing, and getting a basic undertsanding of the physiological changes and stresses that occur once you reach certain thresholds.
This to me is one of the biggest reasons for measuring TSS. The PM chart
PS : point 7 is the fall when we let our bodies recover and then start rebuilding |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 10:30 AM GoFaster - 2013-01-03 10:20 AM I like this idea and approach - like I mentioned, it's somewhere where I really want to improve my knowledge. I know what TSS is, and how to measure, but that's as far as it goes = useless info. I'm all for tracking, comparing, and getting a basic undertsanding of the physiological changes and stresses that occur once you reach certain thresholds. How are you measuring it for the swim and run? TP calculates it for me based on my Threshold paces. I just upload my Garmin files. Raceday Apollo does the same. I think BT only does it for Power Doesn't Apollo do it for the swim as well? Been awhile since I've used it, and was mostly just for the bike at that. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KeriKadi - 2013-01-03 9:08 AM KateTri1 - 2013-01-02 12:04 PM So.... long rides. I've pretty much been in the 20 to 30 mile range but next month I am gonna have to do some that are a lot longer. Do you guys do a lot of long rides in groups.. alone? Have you ever gone crazy on a long ride.. alone? The 50 mile (which is pretty long to me) distance kind of freaks me out. If possible it would be great if you could ride with others when you are going longer, really helps pass the time and miles. When I am doing a distance significantly longer than I have done before I prefer a sponsored ride. Last summer my long ride was going to be 82, we missed a turn so it ended up being 78 but my longest ride before that was 60 so it was a pretty good jump. For my first century I will definitely be riding with a group. I will admit to going a little crazy the first time I did 50 or 55, can't remember but my longest distance before that was 25. This was July in Houston I was on a sponsored ride but not with anybody and very uncomfortable and hot - 98 degrees or so. I was talking to myself and the animals on the side of the road, felt like the longest ride of my life. That is the same ride I did 78 last year and it was awesome. Great company can make all the difference. Of course fitness helps as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one chatting up the fauna on a long ride (or run, for that matter). It can get a little lonely out there. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-03 11:36 AM marcag - 2013-01-03 10:30 AM TP calculates it for me based on my Threshold paces. I just upload my Garmin files. Raceday Apollo does the same. I think BT only does it for Power Doesn't Apollo do it for the swim as well? Been awhile since I've used it, and was mostly just for the bike at that.
yes it does. You had to manually enter the swims but I saw a twit/tweet from Dr Skiba that he has a beta version that downloads from your watch. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 10:08 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-03 9:33 AM marcag - 2013-01-03 8:30 AM TSS on the bike is computed from your FTP, the power you are generating during a workout and the time you generate it So what if you do not use power? Friel published a way of estimating TSS by HR. But it's just an estimate. The article is here In theory you could use the BT Logs to estimate the time spent in various HR zones and then calculate a TSS. Time in each Zone is a feature of the bronze level I believe For hoots, I did it for 2 weeks. It wasn't far off the TSS measured by power meter. It may be fun just to see how much TSS you did in a big week, but I am not sure I would want to manually calculate this all the time Calculating it all the time could be tiresome, but taking a benchmark every few weeks probably would be a good idea. I hadn't thought about this concept (TSS) before, to be honest. I don't train with power, so I am figuratively riding in the dark. It would be nice to know if my mind is conning me or not -- telling me I'm working "so hard," but when I'm actually just skating. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() itsallrelative_Maine - 2013-01-03 11:03 AM So - I had a bit of an epiphany in the last couple of days...as you all may already know - I have been struggling with a severe lack of mojo (due to a very frustrating HIM last Sept) and had hesitated signing up for any races because I was afraid of getting to that dark place again. On New Year's Eve (I know - how trite), I decided I was going to do the Patriot HIM again this year because I had such a great time last year at the race. I went to the web site knowing that prices go up Jan 1. I clicked on the Register button, selected "Individual" and clicked "Submit"...and it rejected it. What? After looking at the form a little more carefully - the Individual entries were SOLD OUT! Holy Cow! The race isn't until mid June! Good for the RDs...but deflated my brief excitement. I told my husband about it and he said, "Why don't you try to focus on one type of event instead of a tri?" Hmmm....but I like triathlon. And then I thought about it some more. He has a good point. Maybe I should. So, I thought about it some more. And I came to the conclusion that I would do the following for 2013: Great Bay Half Marathon April 7 (kind of hilly half marathon - this will be the third year in a row I will race), Vermont City Marathon Memorial Day weekend (I've run this as part of a relay team - it's in Burlington, VT and is a total blast...but I'm frightened of the distance which is a good thing), the two local tris (one sprint in July and one Oly in August), a couple of organized centuries on the bike and then see where fall takes me - either the Rev3 HIM in Old Orchard Beach (if they are still accepting entries when I get my courage up) or the Mount Desert Island Marathon in October. Once I got this figured out - suddenly, everything kind of clicked into place. Now I'm motivated again - partially by fear of the marathon distance, but also because I'm not feeling overwhelmed by the concept of all that training. And a little part of my pea brain is saying, "Perfect - this is great for setting a base for that 2014 IM you've been thinking about." So - bring on those long runs and long bikes...I've got this. This sounds like a great solution and a lot of fun! I'm glad you found a plan that motivates you. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-03 11:29 AM GoFaster - 2013-01-03 10:20 AMI know what TSS is, and how to measure, but that's as far as it goes = useless info. I'm all for tracking, comparing, and getting a basic undertsanding of the physiological changes and stresses that occur once you reach certain thresholds.
This to me is one of the biggest reasons for measuring TSS. The PM chart So my "benchmark" idea would be pretty worthless. To get good amazing data, like you have, one would need to be very consistent in keeping track. I can see how this chart also helps you plan for future training, as well. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rymac - 2013-01-03 9:48 AM I get the TSS concept...but I feel like my volume is too low to have any significance to me as a metric. For instance I am doing 3-4 rides per week of which 2 are 1 hr rides and 1-2 are 1.5 hr rides. The 1 hr rides are typically in the 80-90 TSS range and the 1.5 hr rides in the 100-110 range. The long rides get longer as the season gets closer. I guess I don't have a lot of variability in my training from that standpoint where I look at weekly TSS (more just daily). Get on and ride hard. I do think that if I were training for HIM or IM it comes into play much more and I would pay much more attention. With what you're doing, the workouts are similar enough each time that it won't really matter which way you go to tell how much it was. There isn't *that* much difference between 3x15 or 2x20 in this regard. When you get more into it, you can do things like what Marc showed very well in his diagram. That's something I'm still working towards as well, being able to balance the loads in that manner. So far it's been managing the accumulated points. And my workouts will vary quite a bit more. I'll see 80 or so at times, but can also see up to 150 or more. From reading and experience, I know that much can start to have a noticeable impact on workouts for the next day or two. So when doing something harder at first, I can watch the TSS on the Garmin to keep tabs on the load. I may have had it in my head to ride for 2.5-3 hrs, but if that score is getting up higher, then I'll know i can stop earlier. Or if I didn't watch the score, I'll know to expect to be a touch less energetic the next day or two if it's up at 180 when reviewing later. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KansasMom - 2013-01-03 11:51 AM marcag - 2013-01-03 11:29 AM GoFaster - 2013-01-03 10:20 AMI know what TSS is, and how to measure, but that's as far as it goes = useless info. I'm all for tracking, comparing, and getting a basic undertsanding of the physiological changes and stresses that occur once you reach certain thresholds.
This to me is one of the biggest reasons for measuring TSS. The PM chart So my "benchmark" idea would be pretty worthless. To get good amazing data, like you have, one would need to be very consistent in keeping track. I can see how this chart also helps you plan for future training, as well. Yes, the TSS is more for measuring loads, so you would want to have as much of the data as you can get. I'm not sure what all BT has (or will have with the update), but Training Peaks does also attempt to do a heartrate version of TSS (hrTSS). I don't know how accurate or consistent it is, but it would be something to get used to the idea. |
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