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Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: (Page 22)
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 2011-02-23 12:34 PM in reply to: #3357656 |
Extreme Veteran  747    Overlea/Fullerton Maryland |  Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI:TheSchwamm - 2011-02-16 10:31 AM crowny2 - 2011-02-16 9:16 AM Yes. Some tact would be appreciated. Comments such as, "Unless you were in a coma for the last two years, it was clear where I was headed," [Gov. Walker] do nothing but agitate people. Pector55 - 2011-02-16 8:52 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-16 9:25 AM Can we impeach you? Signed, All of the disgruntled Public Sector employees (teachers, firefighters, etc.) I'm not fully aware of the situation in Wisconsin but here is what I found thus far. Please add to it to clarify or share your opinions. I'm curious about hearing both sides. 1. They would have to pay for half their pension. - Why is that a problem? 2. They have to pay up to 12.6% of their health care premiums - Why is that a problem? 3. They can't seek a pay increase above the consumer price index unless approved by a public vote. - Why is that a problem? To me, it isn't so much the questions that are offensive, it is his threat to call out the national guard to "keep the peace". They shouldn't have elected him then. He ran on this issue during his campaign and said he would do exactly this. I guess the democrats arent used to a politician actually following though on his campaign promises. |
| 2011-02-23 12:34 PM in reply to: #3357656 |
Extreme Veteran 747 Overlea/Fullerton Maryland | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TheSchwamm - 2011-02-16 10:31 AM crowny2 - 2011-02-16 9:16 AM Yes. Some tact would be appreciated. Comments such as, "Unless you were in a coma for the last two years, it was clear where I was headed," [Gov. Walker] do nothing but agitate people. Pector55 - 2011-02-16 8:52 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-16 9:25 AM Can we impeach you? Signed, All of the disgruntled Public Sector employees (teachers, firefighters, etc.) I'm not fully aware of the situation in Wisconsin but here is what I found thus far. Please add to it to clarify or share your opinions. I'm curious about hearing both sides. 1. They would have to pay for half their pension. - Why is that a problem? 2. They have to pay up to 12.6% of their health care premiums - Why is that a problem? 3. They can't seek a pay increase above the consumer price index unless approved by a public vote. - Why is that a problem? To me, it isn't so much the questions that are offensive, it is his threat to call out the national guard to "keep the peace". They shouldn't have elected him then. He ran on this issue during his campaign and said he would do exactly this. I guess the democrats arent used to a politician actually following though on his campaign promises. |
| 2011-02-23 12:39 PM in reply to: #3368840 |
Champion 4835 Eat Cheese or Die | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Grnfsh - 2011-02-23 12:34 PM TheSchwamm - 2011-02-16 10:31 AM crowny2 - 2011-02-16 9:16 AM Yes. Some tact would be appreciated. Comments such as, "Unless you were in a coma for the last two years, it was clear where I was headed," [Gov. Walker] do nothing but agitate people. Pector55 - 2011-02-16 8:52 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-16 9:25 AM Can we impeach you? Signed, All of the disgruntled Public Sector employees (teachers, firefighters, etc.) I'm not fully aware of the situation in Wisconsin but here is what I found thus far. Please add to it to clarify or share your opinions. I'm curious about hearing both sides. 1. They would have to pay for half their pension. - Why is that a problem? 2. They have to pay up to 12.6% of their health care premiums - Why is that a problem? 3. They can't seek a pay increase above the consumer price index unless approved by a public vote. - Why is that a problem? To me, it isn't so much the questions that are offensive, it is his threat to call out the national guard to "keep the peace". They shouldn't have elected him then. He ran on this issue during his campaign and said he would do exactly this. I guess the democrats arent used to a politician actually following though on his campaign promises. Both sides are equally bad about following through with promises. |
| 2011-02-23 1:00 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Iron Donkey 38643  , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: |
| 2011-02-23 1:20 PM in reply to: #3368921 |
Expert 1192 Oak Creek, WI | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-23 1:00 PM Interesting - http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116737394.html given how much the guy was baiting him i thought that SW was pretty solid and consistent with what he's been saying to the public... i was actually pretty impressed by it... it also debunks the notion that walker is in this guy's back pocket... as it obviouly shows that he does not really know the guy - since he doesnt recognize his voice in a 20 minute conversation... |
| 2011-02-23 1:36 PM in reply to: #3368600 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: graceful_dave - 2011-02-23 11:39 AM TriRSquared - 2011-02-23 9:29 AM Nope. I'm a hypocrite graceful_dave - 2011-02-23 9:59 AM RedShark - 2011-02-22 11:54 AM WOW - so the Democrats across the nation who have called the Republicans obstructionists and the party of no are now running and hiding like babies. I don't think they are cowards or losers. The democratic base in Wisconsin is very much against Walkers bill. The Democratic senators are doing what they need to in order to do accomplish what the Democratic base wants. I'm proud of our Democratic Senators. YMMV.Very mature - I am sure this is what the people want. Cowards & Losers - any one of them who will or does run & hide. Would you be proud of the Republicans doing the same thing if it were for a bill with which you disagreed?  But I accept that and acknowledge it. Oh well then let's go get beers...(At least you are honest) ;P |
| 2011-02-23 1:40 PM in reply to: #3369022 |
Champion 4835 Eat Cheese or Die | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-02-23 1:36 PM graceful_dave - 2011-02-23 11:39 AM TriRSquared - 2011-02-23 9:29 AM Nope. I'm a hypocrite graceful_dave - 2011-02-23 9:59 AM RedShark - 2011-02-22 11:54 AM WOW - so the Democrats across the nation who have called the Republicans obstructionists and the party of no are now running and hiding like babies. I don't think they are cowards or losers. The democratic base in Wisconsin is very much against Walkers bill. The Democratic senators are doing what they need to in order to do accomplish what the Democratic base wants. I'm proud of our Democratic Senators. YMMV.Very mature - I am sure this is what the people want. Cowards & Losers - any one of them who will or does run & hide. Would you be proud of the Republicans doing the same thing if it were for a bill with which you disagreed? But I accept that and acknowledge it. Oh well then let's go get beers...(At least you are honest) ;P I've always said, I'd vote for someone I didn't agree with if they were at least honest and open about their intentions. Even the people on my side of the fence are a bunch of liars who don't admit to being hypocrites. I'll take the honest guy I disagree with over the liar I agree with. Beer is good. |
| 2011-02-23 2:22 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Here's a decently researched and validated look a the various claims made by both sides of the debate: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/ Helpful at soring out the truths from the exaggerations. |
| 2011-02-23 2:27 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Expert 1192 Oak Creek, WI | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: and you think the teachers union is really working towards the best interests of its members...?!? http://www.neaexposed.com/weacexposed/documents/WEATrustfinalreport.pdf not sure if this has been discussed yet... however an interesting read about the costs being paid for teachers health insurance... being driven by its own union insurance co... here is one excerpt... One scenario occurred in 2006 in the Kenosha school district, according to the Small Business Times. The school board, facing a $7.2 million deficit, gave preliminary layoff notices to 142 teachers. Much of the deficit was related to soaring health insurance costs, and WEA Trust had just handed the district notice of a 20 percent increase for the following year.School administrators responded to this crisis by sending out a request for insurance bids. One company came back with a bid that would only increase district costs by 2.8 percent the following year while maintaining most of the employee benefits. The district’s non-instructional employees accepted the plan, saving the district about $3 million. But the teachers union refused to budge, dashing hopes for another $3 million in savings. As a result, 40 teachers were laid off. One angry resident of the district was quoted as saying, “It blows my mind when someone is presented with a (insurance) program that duplicates what they have, protects someone else’s job, provides a better education for kids and no one is the worse for it, but they say no because this is not the union insurance plan, which has become a monopoly in Wisconsin.” |
| 2011-03-01 8:17 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
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| 2011-03-01 8:40 AM in reply to: #3377001 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. 2). Your comment broadly strokes that ALL public servants make a higher wage than ALL private sector workers. Wrong thinking there, and not entirely true. Plus, he is the Governor and should be paid more, even if he doesn't have a college degree. I want to know why the Gov. isn't taking a wage cut and not having his pension reduced? Do as I say and not as I do. Lead by example. |
| 2011-03-01 8:55 AM in reply to: #3377036 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. |
| 2011-03-01 9:15 AM in reply to: #3377068 |
Master 4101 Denver | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-01 7:55 AM Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. If you just look at public workers vs private workers, yes the public workers make more. But there was a recent study that tried to do a more apples-to-apples comparison and compared jobs requiring similar education and experience and that found that even when benefits are factored in public employees make about 7% less than those in the private sector. There are a few flaws in the study (for example, it doesn't factor in job security which is a major benefit to public service because it's hard to put a number value on that. It just compares wages and benefits), but even if you concede all the criticisms of the paper, overall the disparity isn't huge one way or the other. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. |
| 2011-03-01 9:17 AM in reply to: #3377068 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:55 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. I don't know, I'm not the rule maker, but, are they less worthy than a person at an equivalent position in the private sector? Are they less worthy if they are hard workers, have a degree, and have more years of service than a person in the private sector? Why should a kid just fresh out of college get paid more than a person who has worked longer, has more knowledge, and has a similar degree? It sometimes happens. I don't defend the slackers milking the system because we know that is just wrong. |
| 2011-03-01 10:04 AM in reply to: #3377114 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:55 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. I don't know, I'm not the rule maker, but, are they less worthy than a person at an equivalent position in the private sector? Are they less worthy if they are hard workers, have a degree, and have more years of service than a person in the private sector? Why should a kid just fresh out of college get paid more than a person who has worked longer, has more knowledge, and has a similar degree? It sometimes happens. I don't defend the slackers milking the system because we know that is just wrong. I ASKED why they are MORE worthy,,,,, shhh. |
| 2011-03-01 10:27 AM in reply to: #3377213 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-01 10:04 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:55 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. I don't know, I'm not the rule maker, but, are they less worthy than a person at an equivalent position in the private sector? Are they less worthy if they are hard workers, have a degree, and have more years of service than a person in the private sector? Why should a kid just fresh out of college get paid more than a person who has worked longer, has more knowledge, and has a similar degree? It sometimes happens. I don't defend the slackers milking the system because we know that is just wrong. I ASKED why they are MORE worthy,,,,, shhh. Are you shushing me? Don't you shush me. |
| 2011-03-01 10:57 AM in reply to: #3377293 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 8:27 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 10:04 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:55 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. I don't know, I'm not the rule maker, but, are they less worthy than a person at an equivalent position in the private sector? Are they less worthy if they are hard workers, have a degree, and have more years of service than a person in the private sector? Why should a kid just fresh out of college get paid more than a person who has worked longer, has more knowledge, and has a similar degree? It sometimes happens. I don't defend the slackers milking the system because we know that is just wrong. I ASKED why they are MORE worthy,,,,, shhh. Are you shushing me? Don't you shush me. shhh = rolling eyes shhh does not = stfu |
| 2011-03-01 11:44 AM in reply to: #3377370 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-01 11:57 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 8:27 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 10:04 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:55 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. I don't know, I'm not the rule maker, but, are they less worthy than a person at an equivalent position in the private sector? Are they less worthy if they are hard workers, have a degree, and have more years of service than a person in the private sector? Why should a kid just fresh out of college get paid more than a person who has worked longer, has more knowledge, and has a similar degree? It sometimes happens. I don't defend the slackers milking the system because we know that is just wrong. I ASKED why they are MORE worthy,,,,, shhh. Are you shushing me? Don't you shush me. shhh = rolling eyes shhh does not = stfu Actually, the wage disperity is difficult to look at. First when you compare the "average" private sector wage vs the "average" public sector wage, the public sector pay is higher. However, that's really not an accurate view of what's going on because the average includes jobs in both sectors that have no real equivalent in the other sector. For instance there is no real equivalent in the public sector for retail workers and fast food employees that may skew the average down for the private sector. Likewise there is no real equivalent for police and firefighters in the private sector. To get a more accurate view of the wage issue you have to compare like jobs, with individuals with like educations and like experience. (for instance you would look at a private school teacher in a certain region with a certain number of years of experience and their pay vs a similarly situated public school teacher, and the same with lawyers and doctors, etc.) When this is done, it actually shows that public sector employees earn between 4-10% less than similarly situated private sector employees. Even more interesting is when you start breaking down the different types of employees. For instance public school teachers make more than their private school counter parts. On the other hand public sector lawyers (prosecutors, and public defenders) make far less than similarly situated private sector attorneys. So this blanket statement of "the public sector makes more money on average" is a little (I think a lot) mis leading. And this simplistic view I believe is the problem. Every type of public employee is being lumped in with every other type of public employee without taking an actual look at those employees that are or are not enjoying greater pay/benefits than their private sector counter parts. There also has been very little talk of what cuts have already been made, and the effectiveness of services based on any additional cuts. |
| 2011-03-01 12:40 PM in reply to: #3377463 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Brock Samson - 2011-03-01 10:44 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 11:57 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 8:27 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 10:04 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:55 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-03-01 6:40 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-01 8:17 AM One question I asked and still don't know the answer to is,,,,,, Why should public servants (government workers) get paid a higher compensation than private sector workers, especially when you consider the job security that the government workers have in their jobs?
1). In this day and age, NO ONE has job security. By comparison, the public sector does have more job security than the private sector I do believe.
On average and I am speaking nationally not just WI, the public sector is paid more on average, of course you will find some indivudial that is not the average but that's where the average comes from. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the words "Always" & "Never" should never seldom be use,,,, as in "All". This again is comes under the "All" I'm talking average. FWIW I agree he should lead by example and take a pay reduction. Yes Governor D-Bag why aren't you taking a pay cut!?! I'd still like to know why the servants should on average be paid more than the person('s) paying their wage. I don't know, I'm not the rule maker, but, are they less worthy than a person at an equivalent position in the private sector? Are they less worthy if they are hard workers, have a degree, and have more years of service than a person in the private sector? Why should a kid just fresh out of college get paid more than a person who has worked longer, has more knowledge, and has a similar degree? It sometimes happens. I don't defend the slackers milking the system because we know that is just wrong. I ASKED why they are MORE worthy,,,,, shhh. Are you shushing me? Don't you shush me. shhh = rolling eyes shhh does not = stfu Actually, the wage disperity is difficult to look at. First when you compare the "average" private sector wage vs the "average" public sector wage, the public sector pay is higher. However, that's really not an accurate view of what's going on because the average includes jobs in both sectors that have no real equivalent in the other sector. For instance there is no real equivalent in the public sector for retail workers and fast food employees that may skew the average down for the private sector. Likewise there is no real equivalent for police and firefighters in the private sector. To get a more accurate view of the wage issue you have to compare like jobs, with individuals with like educations and like experience. (for instance you would look at a private school teacher in a certain region with a certain number of years of experience and their pay vs a similarly situated public school teacher, and the same with lawyers and doctors, etc.) When this is done, it actually shows that public sector employees earn between 4-10% less than similarly situated private sector employees. Even more interesting is when you start breaking down the different types of employees. For instance public school teachers make more than their private school counter parts. On the other hand public sector lawyers (prosecutors, and public defenders) make far less than similarly situated private sector attorneys. So this blanket statement of "the public sector makes more money on average" is a little (I think a lot) mis leading. And this simplistic view I believe is the problem. Every type of public employee is being lumped in with every other type of public employee without taking an actual look at those employees that are or are not enjoying greater pay/benefits than their private sector counter parts. There also has been very little talk of what cuts have already been made, and the effectiveness of services based on any additional cuts. True. Take it a step further and compare a CEO's salary of a multi-billion dollar corporation to that of a federal organization...such as USPS. I believe the Postmast General is around $300K annual. Chump change compared to a CEO for a fortune 100 company. And before anyone says it...yes, USPS is in the red. But so are many of the companies that these CEO's operate. |
| 2011-03-01 1:15 PM in reply to: #3377463 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Brock Samson - 2011-03-01 12:44 PM Actually, the wage disperity is difficult to look at. First when you compare the "average" private sector wage vs the "average" public sector wage, the public sector pay is higher. However, that's really not an accurate view of what's going on because the average includes jobs in both sectors that have no real equivalent in the other sector. So let's look at some specific jobs where you can compare apples to apples: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart (On a side note: Federal clergy?) Average federal salaries exceed average private-sector pay in 83% of comparable occupations. A sampling of average annnual salaries in 2008, the most recent data:
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, USA TODAY analysis Edited by TriRSquared 2011-03-01 1:19 PM | ||
| 2011-03-01 1:24 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: You know what pizzes me off the most? That this thread has NOT reached 30 pages and 10,000 views. You have all disappointed me. Edited by 1stTimeTri 2011-03-01 1:25 PM |
| 2011-03-01 1:55 PM in reply to: #3377666 |
Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-03-01 12:15 PM Brock Samson - 2011-03-01 12:44 PM Actually, the wage disperity is difficult to look at. First when you compare the "average" private sector wage vs the "average" public sector wage, the public sector pay is higher. However, that's really not an accurate view of what's going on because the average includes jobs in both sectors that have no real equivalent in the other sector. So let's look at some specific jobs where you can compare apples to apples: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart (On a side note: Federal clergy?) Average federal salaries exceed average private-sector pay in 83% of comparable occupations. A sampling of average annnual salaries in 2008, the most recent data:
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, USA TODAY analysis I'm going to guess that local vs federal is significantly diferent. I know that as an IT professional in the Public sector, I could make a lot more in the private sector. And yes, I work for a large municipal government. Just saying. I can only speak for where I work. | ||
| 2011-03-01 1:57 PM in reply to: #3377666 |
Master 4101 Denver | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-03-01 12:15 PM Brock Samson - 2011-03-01 12:44 PM Actually, the wage disperity is difficult to look at. First when you compare the "average" private sector wage vs the "average" public sector wage, the public sector pay is higher. However, that's really not an accurate view of what's going on because the average includes jobs in both sectors that have no real equivalent in the other sector. So let's look at some specific jobs where you can compare apples to apples: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart (On a side note: Federal clergy?) Average federal salaries exceed average private-sector pay in 83% of comparable occupations. A sampling of average annnual salaries in 2008, the most recent data: This still isn't an apples to apples comparison though because it just shows average compensation per worker - it doesn't control for education, experience or any other factors that affect pay. In general, public sector employees tend to be more highly educated (over half of all public sector employees have a college degree vs <30% in the private sector) and older (more experienced) so you would expect their salaries to be higher. When these factors are controlled for, studies show that public state & local workers make about 4% less than comparable private sector workers. Haven't been able to find anything yet about the feds though. I suspect this would be much trickier to calculate apples to apples in large part because of the large geographic variability in the federal workforce. I absolutely believe that public sector benefits need to be reformed (mainly at the state level, they did away with the fixed pension benefits for the feds long ago), but any time I hear people trying to pin all the blame on any single group, it just smacks of ideological vendettas to me. Sure some are more responsible than others but I seriously doubt that if every wage study out there showed that public andf private wages were exactly equal we would have balanced budgets. Scapegoating and demonizing one side or the other just ensures that positions are hardened and the compromises that will be required to actually deal with the problems will be that much harder to reach. |
| 2011-03-01 2:04 PM in reply to: #3377760 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: drewb8 - 2011-03-01 2:57 PM TriRSquared - 2011-03-01 12:15 PM Brock Samson - 2011-03-01 12:44 PM Actually, the wage disperity is difficult to look at. First when you compare the "average" private sector wage vs the "average" public sector wage, the public sector pay is higher. However, that's really not an accurate view of what's going on because the average includes jobs in both sectors that have no real equivalent in the other sector. So let's look at some specific jobs where you can compare apples to apples: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart (On a side note: Federal clergy?) Average federal salaries exceed average private-sector pay in 83% of comparable occupations. A sampling of average annnual salaries in 2008, the most recent data: This still isn't an apples to apples comparison though because it just shows average compensation per worker - it doesn't control for education, experience or any other factors that affect pay. In general, public sector employees tend to be more highly educated (over half of all public sector employees have a college degree vs <30% in the private sector) and older (more experienced) so you would expect their salaries to be higher. When these factors are controlled for, studies show that public state & local workers make about 4% less than comparable private sector workers. Haven't been able to find anything yet about the feds though. I suspect this would be much trickier to calculate apples to apples in large part because of the large geographic variability in the federal workforce. I absolutely believe that public sector benefits need to be reformed (mainly at the state level, they did away with the fixed pension benefits for the feds long ago), but any time I hear people trying to pin all the blame on any single group, it just smacks of ideological vendettas to me. Sure some are more responsible than others but I seriously doubt that if every wage study out there showed that public andf private wages were exactly equal we would have balanced budgets. Scapegoating and demonizing one side or the other just ensures that positions are hardened and the compromises that will be required to actually deal with the problems will be that much harder to reach. I'm not saying this chart seals the argument. However it is interesting that so many federal jobs were quite a bit higher than private sector jobs. After all, a business has to make money. The government has no bottom line to keep. So why not give out higher wages? When you look at things like engineers, airline pilots, paralegals, surveyors, nurses etc.. the education level requirements are pretty much the same so that really nullifies that argument |
| 2011-03-01 3:20 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Master 4101 Denver | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-03-01 1:04 PM I'm not saying this chart seals the argument. However it is interesting that so many federal jobs were quite a bit higher than private sector jobs. After all, a business has to make money. The government has no bottom line to keep. So why not give out higher wages? When you look at things like engineers, airline pilots, paralegals, surveyors, nurses etc.. the education level requirements are pretty much the same so that really nullifies that argument But again, it's not an apples to apples comparison. For example, nurses in the federal government are more than twice as likely to have a college degree as those in the private sector (24% vs 11%). Overall about 1/2 the federal workforce has a college degree vs about 1/3 of the private workforce. More than 1/2 the federal workforce is over 45 while in the private sector it's 38, so you would expect a more experienced engineer, paralegal or surveyor to be paid more. According to the OMB director, when age and education are held constant there is no statistically significant difference between feds and the private sector. And I know that when setting wages OPM basically tries to match it to the similar private sector job (though I'm sure you could argue about how well they do that). There's also no way of knowing whether that chart is reprenstative or if certain occupations were cherry picked to make the article more shocking to the reader. For example, using the same BLS stats a petroleum engineer would make $93,140 with the gov't but $119,140 in the private sector yet that's not on the chart. I can agree with you that there is no reason public sector workers should be paid more than private sector ones, but they shouldn't be paid less either. I saw no one saying 'we need to give all those public employees a bonus!' when times were good and private industry was raking it in. They didn't share in that prosperity but now are being asked (and are) to make sacrifices when times are bad. Which is fine, a 3% pay cut like the WI state workers took last year can be the price for increased job security, but I guess main problem is with this idea that seems to have taken hold that public workers are a bunch of greedy, spoiled sloths who are only out to cheat the oublic, and that you can somehow balance the budget on their backs without asking anyone else for any kind of sacrifice. To me it seems as wrong as the idea that you can solve the problem by just taxing the ^&*^ out of the rich. |
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