Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group (Page 22)

Thanks for the tip.  When I trained for my first Triathlon I would cycle or run every day before work and then over my lunch break I would bee line to the gym to swim.  If I was quick with my Transitions I could get a 25 minute swim and still make it back to the office with out running over my hour break.  I got a job transfer after my first race and the only pool in the new town was at the regional medical center and they did water aerobic classes Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 12:30 PM with made swimming over the lunch break a challenge.  They had another water aerobic class are 5:30 AM on Monday, Wednesday, Friday so I went to doing longer swims on Tuesday and Thursday.  I did a lot better on the swim my first race when I only had been swimming for 3-1/2 months than I did at my last race now that I have been swimming for 2-1/2 years.  I have been too busy at work to break away at lunch for the last 1-1/2 since we had a new product line transferred to our facility that I was put in charge of.  I am going to have to figure out a way to get in a 30 minute swim 4 times a week though.  

Well I will defiantly be trying something different for future races.  The air temperature during the  race was about 65 degrees and the water was about 74 deg.  I was pretty well hydrated, but may have not done as well on the electrolytes pre-race. 

Hi All, I have been keeping up on everyone's posts but we've had company and some other challenges which have made it hard to post anything.

I posted a race report yesterday: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=547473&posts=1&page=1#M5222107 

I wrote it pretty fast so hopefully it is somewhat coherent.

Biggest news for me is I've had 3 biking accidents in the last 3 weeks.  Each one involved a good case of road rash and each one was worse than the last.  My right knee and calf look like I tried to shave my leg on the asphalt.  In all seriousness I can't believe how lucky I was not to be just a smear of blood on the highway.  Just a few seconds either way from when the 3rd accident happened and I'd be toast.  The road rash is quite painful at times but I really feel grateful that it wasn't worse.

I've been able to swim, bike and run so far but some things are not a lot of fun.  The worst thing was putting on my girdle like swimsuit.  That was just nasty.  I also find it a bit of a problem kicking off the wall of the pool because it involves flexing my knees.  Cycling is also painful at the start but once I get warmed up I can cycle quite comfortably.  So far, running hasn't caused any problems.

Scott - It was quite timely to read your preference for increased swimming frequency.  I was swimming 4X but local changes cut me to 2X so I'll have to swim more on my own to keep up.

Last night I registered for a small local sprint race.  Tonight I went to the site to check everything out and I found out it has been cancelled due to high water issues.  Our big lake Okanagan is at historical highs.  Hard to believe that such a large lake can rise as high as it has.  I can't imagine the volume of water it would take to raise the lake even an inch let alone a foot and now it is up in metres.

Hopefully I'll get back to normal again pretty quick and post more regularly.

Age is no barrier. It’s a limitation you put on your mind.

George,

I always enjoy your race reports. 

Here are a couple websites that offer suggestions to reduce dropping your chain -

http://road.cc/content/feature/201548-how-stop-your-chain-coming-%E2%80%94-dropped-chain-can-damage-your-bike-or-even-cause

http://www.detroitendurancelab.com/lab-notes/2014/7/15/how-to-stop-dropping-your-chain

Great race report!  You always write them so it makes me feel like I am there.

Glad to hear it wasn't more serious than it was.  The good news is you are now a member of the "has crashed club," so you can scratch that off your list and you don't have to do it anymore!

Be careful out there!

Julie,

I HATE snakes!  I'm absolutely terrified by them.  Suffice to say, had I found myself in the same situation, after I wet myself, I too would have been done. I didn't know snakes were an option in the water!  Thank you for giving me that visual! 

It takes time, but it will come.  The best thing you can do is be in the water frequently, especially as a newer swimmer.  Being in the water 4-5 times a week is far more advantageous than being in the water 2-3 times for more total duration - i.e. 4-5 30-minute swims are better than two 2-hour swims, even though you would be swimming longer with the two 2-hour swims.  The more frequently you swim, the faster it will come.

Alligators?  I've only ever been worried about fish that have teeth - Mr. Great White shark - and Jellyfish.  Now you're telling me that reptiles are a concern?  I think I'm sticking to pools! 

Julie, this first part is not necessarily directed towards you, rather it is my fairly regular "drill vent."  In my opinion, triathletes in general do WAY too many drills.  Unless you have a qualified coach or instructor prescribing a specific drill for an identifiable stroke deficiency that the prescribed drill will help remedy, you will be better served by simply swimming more.  Too often I hear of people who post a question about their substandard swimming in  a forum, only to be given several drills that will "solve the problem" by people who never have seen the original poster swim.  Worse, athletes go to a swim workout and the coach has the entire pool begin to do a series of drills.  Just because a drill helps one person does NOT mean that same drill will help another person.  Indeed, doing a drill you don't need to be doing can actually cause more harm than good by introducing bad habits.  When coaches prescribe drills to an entire workout, they are shortchanging those swimmers that don't need that specific drill who would be better served swimming.

If you have a specific and identifiable deficiency and have been prescribed a specific drill by a qualified coach/instructor to correct that problem, you should begin to see improvement very quickly - within just a couple of sessions.  If not, the drill is wrong, or you are doing the drill improperly.  I'm not saying the issue will necessarily be resolved in just a couple of sessions, but you should certainly begin to see improvement quickly.  I don't often prescribe a drill for longer than 4-weeks.  I may have someone doing a specific drill for some period of time, move away from the drill, and then return to the drill weeks/months later to reinforce proper technique, but if you are being told to do the same drill for more than 6 consecutive weeks, you need to seriously consider a new coach/instructor.

While it is true that swimming is a highly technical sport and you must have reasonably good technique to become both fast AND efficient, it is also true that to become fast you need to swim.  Then you need to swim some more.  When you think you have swum enough, you need to swim some more.  Taking up half or more of all of your workouts doing drills will NEVER make you fast.

OK, I will step down off of my soapbox now and answer your question Julie.

As a newer swimmer Julie you undoubtedly have some stroke deficiencies that a drill or drills may well improve.  That said, just doing drills for the sake of doing drills won't help you.  If/when you go to the Tri-Club workout you can get individual one-on-one time with a qualified coach that can analyze your stroke, identify deficiencies, and prescribe corrective measures, then yes, the Tri-Club workouts will be valuable.  Once you have the drill(s), you need to get in the water and do them.  You don't necessarily need to be in an organized workout to do that so you can go to the pool on your own to get the frequency.  Then, perhaps weekly, maybe even bi-weekly if you're consistently doing the drill properly, go to the Tri-Club workout to have the coach re-visit your technique and make further recommendations.

Now, putting those drills into practice - If I prescribe a drill for someone, let's say I prescribe the 'smiley face drill' for the sake of discussion.  I might have that person do 10 x 50 of the drill.  It would be done as 25 smiley face drill followed by 25 swim.  By doing that, you are immediately putting into practice what the drill has you focus on.  If that athlete were doing a 60 minute workout, I might have them do 15 minutes of drill, then the rest of the workout would be swimming to build fitness and ultimately speed.

One thing to remember is that to swim fast you need both good technique and good swim fitness built on good technique.  Good technique and good fitness are two sides of the same coin.  You can't have one without the other.   To overcome that seeming dichotomy you need to develop good technique and good swim fitness simultaneously.  Which takes us back to 25 smiley face drill followed by 25 swim.  After the short drill set, you move on to a main swim set to further develop fitness built upon the proper technique you learned in the drill set.  The more frequently you can go back and repeat that process, the more quickly you will become a proficient swimmer - 4-5 times a week in the water is better than 2-3 times a week in the water even if 2-3 times a week gives you more total time.  As you become a more proficient swimmer, there will be other deficiencies that present themselves at which point you change the focus of any drills you are doing - again with the guidance of a qualified coach/instructor.

The short answer is, the more frequently you can swim the better you will do.  If you can work frequency AND time with a qualified instructor into your swim routine, you will be far ahead of the typical age-group triathlete guilty of adult-onset swimming (that isn't a bad thing in and of itself).

One final thought.  A common trait of adult onset swimmers is that they do not learn the fundamentals of swimming.  That lack of knowledge often comes back to haunt them throughout their triathlon careers.  For example, many adult onset swimmers have a difficult time with position and balance in the water - their legs drop, causing drag which is almost impossible to overcome.  Had they learned the fundamentals, they would have learned how to float.  They would have learned how to keep their hips, arms and legs from dropping  - thus eliminating a potential problem long before it became a problem.  We triathletes are a funny lot.  We often possess strong type-A personalities.  As adults, we "know better."  We also tend to be impatient and want results NOW.  Often times when I suggest to a new adult swimmer that they learn the fundamentals - they scoff and say, "That's for children.  I'm an adult."  It's true, when children learn to swim, the very first entry level class they attend is often 3 half-hour classes per week for 6-8 weeks in which they are taught the fundamentals.  Those fundamentals are the foundation that proper swimming is built upon.  If you truly wish to become proficient, I strongly encourage you, or anyone else struggling with the swim, to go back and learn the fundamentals.  You don't need to take 6-8 weeks.  You can actually accomplish it in just a couple hours of focused work. 

I go through the fundamentals on my website and invite everyone to revisit your fundamentals - http://triathlonswimcoach.com/index.php/en/resources/stroke-techniq...

Edited by k9car363 2017-06-11 4:18 PM

Julie - Sorry you had a bad swim in your race.  I never considered you'd have to contend with a snake.  I think that might shake anyone.  It wouldn't even matter if it was small one.  I'm glad you're still training and racing.  Maybe you can find a warmer swim without any snakes.

Scott - Thanks for the references on chain dropping and on swim fundamentals.  I'm going to check them all out.  I hope you're right about not having to worry about crashing.  I really don't want to add anymore rash to what I've already got.  

Kathy - Congrats on your sprint.  As for your sprint with the OWS - is it close enough to visit and practice swimming (preferably with as many friends as possible)?  I always try to swim in the same area as my race to get more comfortable with it.  It just seems to help make it less of an unknown.  I also like it if the water has clear visibility.

Kathy and Julie - Check out "swim buddy" they're brightly coloured floats that make you more visible and help you out if you need to pause your swim for any reason.  For anyone who is a nervous swimmer it is just a really good idea.  I once watched a swimmer swim the length of a local lake and we could still see her at 1km away (the lake was exactly 1km long).  They also can carry your keys and valuables and keep them dry.

George ... enjoyed reading your race report and glad you had a good race.  I'd love to have your speed with the swim and especially the run.  Speed does not come without the work, so great job with your training!!  I am encouraged and inspired at your consistency for training.  A dropped chain to me is soooo aggravating.  I've dropped the chain many times as well ... a couple of times off the rear cassette wherein it became mashed between the hub and spokes.  After spending $200 to replace 2 or 3 carbon spokes, I made sure the bike shop was aware and had aligned the wheel and both derailleurs.

I too am a member of the "crash" club ... many, many times with mountain biking and one memorable crash with road biking.  With the RB crash, all I remember was looking down at my Garmin, seeing the rut at pavement's edge, my brain screaming and me waking up bloody and flat on my bike in the road.  I was extremely fortunate to not have been run over!! I have road rash scars from this on my forehead, shoulder and knee ... had to replace my helmet as it was split!

Congrats again on the great race ...

Ciao ... Dorm

Kathy, congratulations on getting the first race of the year out of the way.  Look forward to reading you RR.  I'm sorta in a similar boat with planned races this year ... 2 more triathlons are my plan.  My daughters throw in a 5k from time to time and I'll have fun with those as well.

Congrats again ... Dorm

Hi Julie,

Good question!

Before I get to how you determine HR zones, I should take a minute and explain WHY we use HR training.  This will be a very basic description and I'll try and keep it as easy to understand as I can.

If you don't want the "long version" skip down to "TRAINING ZONES" below.

In the old days, we use to train HARD all the time.  I remember during swim workouts we would quite literally do 'vomit-sets.'  If you didn't go hard enough to deposit your lunch in the pool gutter, you weren't going hard enough.  It was the same way for running - as hard as you could all the time.  As science caught up to athletics we realized there was a better way. 

There are a number of physiological 'landmarks' that are important when we talk about zone training.  Resting HR is pretty obvious - that's your HR when you are at complete rest.  You can determine this by taking your pulse first thing in the morning  before you get out of bed.  When we get out of bed and start to move around, our HR begins to climb.  If we were to begin exercising, our HR will rise and we may get to our Aerobic threshold - the point at which anaerobic energy pathways begin to be a significant part of energy production.  As we exercise harder, our HR will continue to climb and eventually may reach our Lactate Threshold.  LT is a bit confusing as there are a number of terms that are used interchangeably.  Without going into a long description, when we say 'lactate threshold' we are interested in our 'maximal lactate steady state' - defined as the point at which your bodies rate of lactate production is equal to your bodies rate of lactate clearance.  If you continue to exercise above this level you will accumulate metabolic by-products in the form of lactate and lactic acid (lactic acid is what causes "the burn" you feel when you exercise hard).  One final term that's important to a HR discussion is VO2 MAX - our maximum rate of oxygen consumption.

As I alluded to above, when we exercise there are different energy pathways that our body uses to produce the energy to power our muscles.  Of primary interest to triathletes are the anaerobic energy pathways - phosphagen system and glycolysis - and the aerobic energy pathway.  The phosphagen system is the predominant energy system used for all-out exercise lasting up to about 10 seconds.  Glycolysis is the predominant energy system used for all-out exercise lasting from 30 seconds to about 2 minutes.  The anaerobic energy pathways use carbohydrate to produce energy - typically in the form of glycogen stored in the muscle.  The body of a typical age-group triathlete typically has glycogen stores equal to approximately 1,500 calories.  It is VERY important to understand - when these glycogen stores are gone, the are GONE - you cannot replenish glycogen stores while you continue to exercise.

Finally, the aerobic system, which is dependent on oxygen, is the most complex of the three energy systems. The metabolic reactions that take place in the presence of oxygen are responsible for most of the cellular energy produced by the body. However, aerobic metabolism is the slowest way to produce energy.  The aerobic energy pathway utilizes fat stored in your body to produce energy. Another point that is important to understand for long course athletes is that fat is burned in a carbohydrate fire.  Remember what I said earlier about limited glycogen stores?  If you exhaust your glycogen stores (carbohydrate) you will have no way to continue producing energy in the aerobic energy pathway and you will "hit the wall."  (If you have never seen it, this is Julie Moss "hitting the wall" as she approached the finish at the 1982 Ironman World Championships. It isn't pretty and is somewhat painful to watch but it highlights the importance of not running out of glycogen).

For a practical description of the energy pathways - If you are sitting comfortably in your car driving to a marathon race you are likely primarily using the aerobic energy pathway. If you jump up out of the car, you would be using the phosphagen energy system. If you then sprinted across the parking lot to the starting line you would be using glycolysis. When you start the marathon, you will be using the aerobic energy pathway.

Now, let me see if I can tie this all together so it's understandable.  Triathlon, even at the shortest distance, takes longer to complete than the anaerobic energy pathways can produce power.  That means we need to rely on the aerobic energy pathway to provide the energy for our exercising muscles.  We don't really want our HR to climb above lactate threshold as we would be burning through our critical glycogen stores.  A couple of things are very apparent - 1) it would be helpful if we could raise our lactate threshold - allowing us to do more work at the same HR and avoid metabolic by-products - and 2) it would be helpful if our bodies were more efficient at burning fat for fuel.

Enter heart rate training!

By training in various HR zones we can force specific physiological adaptations.  For example, training at your aerobic threshold (high zone 1, low zone 2) will cause an increase in the number of mitochondrial organelles withing the cells and will increase mitochondrial enzymes - which will improve your bodies ability to burn fat for fuel.  Training near your lactate threshold (zone 4) will increase your lactate threshold.  If you workout with your HR well above lactate threshold (zone 5) you will increase your heart stroke volume and increase VO2 MAX. (There are a number of adaptations that take place across all HR zones - these are just a few of the most prominent adaptations).

TRAINING ZONES

The best way to determine your HR zones is with a lactate threshold field test.  You can use this same procedure for both running and cycling.  YES!  You should test each discipline separately as your LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) will likely be different for the run and the bike.  The test consists of a 30-minute time trial.  The goal is to complete the time trial as quickly as you can.  You will need a HR monitor and a sports watch (Garmin, Polar, Suunto, etc.).

• Thoroughly warm-up
• Press start on your watch and begin the test
• At 10-minutes press lap on your watch
• At 30-minutes press end
• The average HR for the final 20-minutes of the test is your lactate threshold heart rate(LTHR).
• You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had

Now that you have your LTHR, use the following to calculate your training zones -

Run Zones
Zone 1 Less than 85% of LTHR
Zone 2 85% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 94% of LTHR
Zone 4 95% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

Bike Zones
Zone 1 Less than 81% of LTHR
Zone 2 81% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 93% of LTHR
Zone 4 94% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

One final word about HR zones.  Everything that happens within the body occurs on a continuum.  Say for the sake of discussion that you determine your run LTHR is 145 beats per minute.  That doesn't mean at 145 beats per minute a switch is magically thrown in your body and you are suddenly above your LT.  Your body is AL/WAYS using all three energy pathways.  Even when you are sleeping, your body is burning carbohydrate and fat.  When you are sprinting as hard as you can go, you are burning both carbohydrate and fat.  The proportions change as you increase intensity.  As you exercise harder and harder, your body is using more and more carbohydrate for fuel and creating increasing amounts of metabolic by-products.  Your heart rate zones can be altered by heat, humidity, fatigue, and dehydration among other things.  In short, your HR zones are an approximation - they will change with various conditions.  Using the 145 BPM example, one day your run LTHR may be 145, the next day 143 and the next day 147.  What the lactate field test tells us is your LT is AROUND 145.  Because the zones are calculated off of an approximation, the zones too are approximations.  The zones are more than accurate enough for our purposes, but it is helpful to understand we are dealing with a heart rate continuum.

For a bit more information on the lactate threshold field test and setting zones:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=633   (I use a different test for swim threshold pace)

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/

Hope all of that helps!

Janet,

I know a guy that's seen you swim.  I'm told your toes are nowhere near the bottom of the pool!  You should find other things to dream about!