Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 27)
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hello everyone. I was curious to ask those who have done recent IM races if the powerbar perform that is on the course is what they trained with?. From what I can tell it only has 70 calories per 20 oz. How did you use this? Obviously this could be used for fluid replacement and some calories but calories had to be supplemented. I am a hammer guy. In a race as long as a ironman I thought it would be good to use whats on the course. However, I hate to replace my perpetum but do not want to be dependant on the special needs bag. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I am a hammer guy. In a race as long as a ironman I thought it would be good to use whats on the course. However, I hate to replace my perpetum but do not want to be dependant on the special needs bag. I rode with the extra bottle cages behind my saddle and put Perpetuem powder in them. I added water to one just before the swim start, and then grabbed water from an aid station to fill the other one mid-race. Yes I stopped to do that - I wasn't riding no-hands to juggle bottles ![]() The most recent CdA had regular Gatorade at the aid stations - which is also low on calories, although some of the stations also had gel shots and bananas as I recall. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hi All, I'm kind of late getting on board here, but I thought I'd jump in now that my season is over and I actually have a little spare time. I'm in for CdA 2011 and really looking forward to it! I'm still catching up on back-reading this forum, but enjoying it nonetheless. CdA will be my 2nd IM. I survived my first full IM at Louisville this past August and it was quite an experience...training through one of the hottest summers in everyone's recent memory, then racing one of the most brutal IM days on record. I was proud to finish, a moment in time that I'll never forget. Just four weeks later I followed that up with my second 70.3 here in my backyard at the ESi Augusta 70.3. A week and half after that I raced as a team captain in the Southern Odyssey 200 Mile Relay. This season has been an absolute blast! I can't wait to get back on an organized IM training plan; I think I enjoy the training as much as the actual race event itself. But I'm taking it easy for the next couple of weeks while my M-Dot heals (at least no swimming). Anyway, glad to be here and looking forward to a lively forum leading up to I-day. Warm regards, Randy Cantu |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Cantucan - 2010-10-25 6:39 PM Hi All, I'm kind of late getting on board here, but I thought I'd jump in now that my season is over and I actually have a little spare time. I'm in for CdA 2011 and really looking forward to it! I'm still catching up on back-reading this forum, but enjoying it nonetheless. CdA will be my 2nd IM. I survived my first full IM at Louisville this past August and it was quite an experience...training through one of the hottest summers in everyone's recent memory, then racing one of the most brutal IM days on record. I was proud to finish, a moment in time that I'll never forget. Just four weeks later I followed that up with my second 70.3 here in my backyard at the ESi Augusta 70.3. A week and half after that I raced as a team captain in the Southern Odyssey 200 Mile Relay. This season has been an absolute blast! I can't wait to get back on an organized IM training plan; I think I enjoy the training as much as the actual race event itself. But I'm taking it easy for the next couple of weeks while my M-Dot heals (at least no swimming). Anyway, glad to be here and looking forward to a lively forum leading up to I-day. Warm regards, Randy Cantu
Congrats on your terrific season and Welcome, Randy! We'll (me and other newbies) be able to pick your brain some since you have experience with IM's. I do understand that unstructured training after the season can be challenging. Take it easy. Lynn |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Randy - welcome and enjoy some down time.....and in the down time post a picture of the tat that is 'forcing' you away from the pool! Edited by stampinann 2010-10-25 10:38 PM |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Cantucan - 2010-10-25 9:39 PM Hi All, I'm kind of late getting on board here, but I thought I'd jump in now that my season is over and I actually have a little spare time. I'm in for CdA 2011 and really looking forward to it! I'm still catching up on back-reading this forum, but enjoying it nonetheless. CdA will be my 2nd IM. I survived my first full IM at Louisville this past August and it was quite an experience...training through one of the hottest summers in everyone's recent memory, then racing one of the most brutal IM days on record. I was proud to finish, a moment in time that I'll never forget. Just four weeks later I followed that up with my second 70.3 here in my backyard at the ESi Augusta 70.3. A week and half after that I raced as a team captain in the Southern Odyssey 200 Mile Relay. This season has been an absolute blast! I can't wait to get back on an organized IM training plan; I think I enjoy the training as much as the actual race event itself. But I'm taking it easy for the next couple of weeks while my M-Dot heals (at least no swimming). Anyway, glad to be here and looking forward to a lively forum leading up to I-day. Warm regards, Randy Cantu Welcome to the group, congrats on the Louisville finish, that was a cooker this year |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kstater39 - 2010-10-25 6:17 PM Hello everyone. I was curious to ask those who have done recent IM races if the powerbar perform that is on the course is what they trained with?. From what I can tell it only has 70 calories per 20 oz. How did you use this? Obviously this could be used for fluid replacement and some calories but calories had to be supplemented. I am a hammer guy. In a race as long as a ironman I thought it would be good to use whats on the course. However, I hate to replace my perpetum but do not want to be dependant on the special needs bag. I did IMLP this year, and the only training I did with PB Perform was the case that they sent me in the mail... so probably 2 long rides worth. First - a major clarification - it has 70 calories per 8oz serving. On race day, I lived off the course except for 2 cliff bars which I eat just because I prefer to put a little bit of solid food down the hatch. I drank PBP as fast as my stomach would tolerate it on the bike (easing off a little towards the end so I didn't have a full stomach sloshing around on the run). Other than the cliff bars, I did not supplement with any other food, drink, or salt. I did take a PBF and water at each aid station - water went on my back with maybe one or two swigs before I ditched it. Other than that it was just PBF. I rode sub 5:30 and ran a 3:30 (again, living entirely off the course... though mostly coke with a little PBF and a little water for that part) if that factors into your analysis. I did not have any stomach problems and felt adequately fueled for the entire race. I'm not going to blame the cramping I experienced in the last couple miles on nutrition... I was simply racing hard and pushed it just a hair too far given the fitness I had. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have to agree with Josh on this. I have a friend that is a HUGE Hammer guy also, but consistently finds himself in a bind on the course if he drops a bottle or something goes wrong. I learned early, ALWAYS train with what is on the course...2 reasons: 1) Ironman is a LONG day, something can ALWAYS goes wrong. If you depend on carrying your "special mix" around the course and you hit a bump and lose the bottle, now what? Or if you realize "holy cow, I need ALOT more than I thought over 140.6 miles"... you will. or what if they lose your special needs bag... it happens... Always makes sense to be acclimated to feeding off of the course all day. 2) On the same note, in IMLP I saw people with 3-4 bottles filled with their special juice being dragged around 112 miles, then a fuel belt for 26.2... Why would you do that?? How much $$$ did you spend to buy a seat with Ti rails vs. CrMoly to save 25 grams and then strap 8 pounds of liquid on your bike or labor to lose that extra pound and then strap a fuel belt on??? Just makes zero sense to me. The rule is simple... As much as people complain about WTC, the aid stations at 140.6 races (not all 70.3 races) are pletiful, even for the 17 hour people. There is absolutelly no reason to carry 1 oz of extra fluid or food one step/pedal stroke further than you need. If you get hungry, there is another aid station soon, always is. Granted, I had my twix bars in my special needs for the pick me up and prefer 3Bar's to Powerbars (to me, Powerbars are like eating a spoonful of sugar), so I did carry a few of those, but all of my liquid and 90% of my solid foods (which was mostly pretzels) came from grazing at the aid stations. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I hear what you're saying but I think a lot of people want to bring what works best for them. I'm one of those. I had the bottles I mentioned, one spare in my SN bag (didn't use it), and a small gel flask with me for a change of pace on the bike or run. I lived mostly off the course on the run -- hydration was more of a problem than calories - but I was happy with my setup on the bike. I think I've had more flats in training than launched bottles, so that type of risk was minimal for me. And yeah I could've lived off the aid stations in a pinch, just not my favorite. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I should have mentioned that I do not have a sensitive stomach. To me, sports drink is sports drink and I have zero preference (other than taste) between gatorade and powerbar. I tend to avoid the drinks with protein in them, especially while racing... but other than that give me some carb/salt/flavor mixed into some water and I'm happy. I learned this by expermimentation on my longer rides... there was no perceived difference between various options. Others learn something quite different during their experimentation... that their stomach definitely prefers one thing over another. I have no problem with people strapping 6 bottles to their bikes... just glad I don't have to do so myself. I have several friends who are very talented who are not fans of PB Perform... but for me it's just water + fast absorbing sugar/salt. I could get the same thing from lots of other sources (I train almost exclusively on gatorade because it's readily available). |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Not trying to hijack the thread and excited to get back into it after IMFL next weekend, but my family is no longer coming so my running partner volunteered to sherpa. Still no place yet, but not too worried now that its a man-weekend. Need to know if anyone knows of a 5k/10k or anything remotely nearby in the few days leading up to the race? Thanks and will be checking back when/if I survive IM#2! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2010-10-18 3:38 PM No doubt I put in the work and (due to major weight loss) had a relatively fast progression in one year... perhaps faster than "fitness" alone could explain. Maybe if I had stayed the same wieght between the two races the 2xHIM+1HR formula would have been closer for me? Ultimately, my point is not to put yourself into a box (or stretch too far/hard to get into that box) based on some random formula. We all have different capacities for training and recovery, and different schedules that dictate our ability to train. For some people the formula may result in not pushing to your full potential. For others, it may tempt them to go too hard, which is the number one way to ruin your day IMHO. The thing to remember (I try to remind myself of this constantly) is that my training TODAY should be based on my fitness TODAY. Not based on what I did in an HIM last year at peak fitness. Not based on what my goal IM time is. But based on my tested fitness. Train at that level, and you will adapt to be slightly faster. Then retest and train at that level, and you will adapt to be slightly faster. Repeat repeat repeat. That's your best recipe to make as many gains as possible with as little risk of injury as possible. For several people in this thread, IM training will be plagued by injuries that result from doing too much too fast because they had to be doing 100 mile bike rides by X date, or had to get their long run to 20 because that's what they did when marathon training, etc. Injury from training too hard more than cancels out any fitness gained from that training... plus there will be fitness lost while you recover. I know (and appreciate) that you were giving me props. But don't think that the progress I made in a year is out of reach for the average IMer. Sure we all have different genetic potential - I'm not saying eveyrone is capable of 10:XX IM. But I am saying almost everyone is capable of getting quite a bit faster than they were last year. Most of us have a big chunk of weight we've admitted we need to lose. Actually doing it will make a HUGE difference on race day. We should be thinking about race day NOW, not in February. I'm not saying you need to do mega volume now, but you should be making sure you show up to the spring in shape and feeling fresh, not needing to get into shape or fighting injury. I plan to use this "off season" to very conservatively build a base. For everyone running a fall/winter/spring marathon, I recommend extra caution to not let the urgency of training for that race result in showing up to your IM build with nagging injuries. You don't need to run 22 miles 3 times to run a marathon, especially if your total weekly mileage is high because of consistency/repeatability (and resulting low recovery needs and lack of injury). I ran a 3:30 IM marathon and my longest runs were 16, 17, and 18 miles (once each)... but my month averages were 150, 170, 180, 90 (life crisis), 150, 160, in the 6 months preceding the race. And lest it sound too "animal"ish... my stand-alone marathon PR prior to that was 4:24. Point is that I'm naturally a very average at best runner, not an animal. But weight loss and smart training really did move me to the pointy end of the field. Sorry to think out loud so much. Hope it's not preachy... just sharing my experience hoping it encourages people to think about their training before drinking any cool-aid. Josh, I wish I read this post earlier about the long runs not being so high and as long as the consistency is there. I was training to do a marathon on Halloween day and about 10 days ago got plantar fasciitis. I did get in 2 x 18 mile runs and 2 x 20 mile runs, but now I am injured and will not be at the marathon starting line. I probably could run it at this point, but it would take longer to recover. :-( I feel the hardest part for me will be getting to the starting line at IM CDA injury free. Thanks everyone for all the input and advice. I am still formulating a training & nutrition plan. After reading these latest comments I am going to test using Power Bar Perform. What is PBF? |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2010-10-26 2:59 PM Not trying to hijack the thread and excited to get back into it after IMFL next weekend, but my family is no longer coming so my running partner volunteered to sherpa. Still no place yet, but not too worried now that its a man-weekend. Good Luck - go PHAST |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Appreciate that KSTATER39. Steady is phine. No need for phast. Edited by phatknot 2010-10-26 4:52 PM |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kstater39 - 2010-10-25 5:17 PM Hello everyone. I was curious to ask those who have done recent IM races if the powerbar perform that is on the course is what they trained with?. From what I can tell it only has 70 calories per 20 oz. How did you use this? Obviously this could be used for fluid replacement and some calories but calories had to be supplemented. I am a hammer guy. In a race as long as a ironman I thought it would be good to use whats on the course. However, I hate to replace my perpetum but do not want to be dependant on the special needs bag. I too prefer hammar. I did 70.3 Racine and carried 2 bottles of perpetum and gels in my bike shirt and had the powerbar perform in my in my aero bottle. I only needed to get water from the aid station on the bike. I grazed off of the aid stations on the run, lots of oranges, preztels, etc. They are well stocked and were every mile. I still ended up in the med tent with an IV for hydration. Looking at some earlier posts, I would say we're all pretty different. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() RunRene - 2010-10-26 5:42 PM JoshKaptur - 2010-10-18 3:38 PM No doubt I put in the work and (due to major weight loss) had a relatively fast progression in one year... perhaps faster than "fitness" alone could explain. Maybe if I had stayed the same wieght between the two races the 2xHIM+1HR formula would have been closer for me? Ultimately, my point is not to put yourself into a box (or stretch too far/hard to get into that box) based on some random formula. We all have different capacities for training and recovery, and different schedules that dictate our ability to train. For some people the formula may result in not pushing to your full potential. For others, it may tempt them to go too hard, which is the number one way to ruin your day IMHO. The thing to remember (I try to remind myself of this constantly) is that my training TODAY should be based on my fitness TODAY. Not based on what I did in an HIM last year at peak fitness. Not based on what my goal IM time is. But based on my tested fitness. Train at that level, and you will adapt to be slightly faster. Then retest and train at that level, and you will adapt to be slightly faster. Repeat repeat repeat. That's your best recipe to make as many gains as possible with as little risk of injury as possible. For several people in this thread, IM training will be plagued by injuries that result from doing too much too fast because they had to be doing 100 mile bike rides by X date, or had to get their long run to 20 because that's what they did when marathon training, etc. Injury from training too hard more than cancels out any fitness gained from that training... plus there will be fitness lost while you recover. I know (and appreciate) that you were giving me props. But don't think that the progress I made in a year is out of reach for the average IMer. Sure we all have different genetic potential - I'm not saying eveyrone is capable of 10:XX IM. But I am saying almost everyone is capable of getting quite a bit faster than they were last year. Most of us have a big chunk of weight we've admitted we need to lose. Actually doing it will make a HUGE difference on race day. We should be thinking about race day NOW, not in February. I'm not saying you need to do mega volume now, but you should be making sure you show up to the spring in shape and feeling fresh, not needing to get into shape or fighting injury. I plan to use this "off season" to very conservatively build a base. For everyone running a fall/winter/spring marathon, I recommend extra caution to not let the urgency of training for that race result in showing up to your IM build with nagging injuries. You don't need to run 22 miles 3 times to run a marathon, especially if your total weekly mileage is high because of consistency/repeatability (and resulting low recovery needs and lack of injury). I ran a 3:30 IM marathon and my longest runs were 16, 17, and 18 miles (once each)... but my month averages were 150, 170, 180, 90 (life crisis), 150, 160, in the 6 months preceding the race. And lest it sound too "animal"ish... my stand-alone marathon PR prior to that was 4:24. Point is that I'm naturally a very average at best runner, not an animal. But weight loss and smart training really did move me to the pointy end of the field. Sorry to think out loud so much. Hope it's not preachy... just sharing my experience hoping it encourages people to think about their training before drinking any cool-aid. Josh, I wish I read this post earlier about the long runs not being so high and as long as the consistency is there. I was training to do a marathon on Halloween day and about 10 days ago got plantar fasciitis. I did get in 2 x 18 mile runs and 2 x 20 mile runs, but now I am injured and will not be at the marathon starting line. I probably could run it at this point, but it would take longer to recover. :-( I feel the hardest part for me will be getting to the starting line at IM CDA injury free. Thanks everyone for all the input and advice. I am still formulating a training & nutrition plan. After reading these latest comments I am going to test using Power Bar Perform. What is PBF? Sorry - if I wrote PBF I meant PBP - the "ironman perform" drink. Too late to edit. I feel for you on the marathon. The reason I've learned what I have and had the success that I've had with the type of training I'm advocating now is that I learned the hard way. All through high school I had shin splints and ankle problems that ruined my season. I would be number 2 on the team a month into the season, and then fade back and barely make varsity (top 7) by the end of each season. The reason for that - I was number 2 on the team and always tried to outrun number 1 in practice... whereas number 1 was in better shape than me in part through genetics and in part through consistency (he showed up in top shape after running big miles every summer... something I was too distracted to do while skirt chasing). |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kstater39 - 2010-10-26 5:48 PM phatknot - 2010-10-26 2:59 PM Not trying to hijack the thread and excited to get back into it after IMFL next weekend, but my family is no longer coming so my running partner volunteered to sherpa. Still no place yet, but not too worried now that its a man-weekend. Good Luck - go PHAST x 2 |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I did IMWI which was essentially the first time using PBP outside of sampling it. Generally i have an iron stomach and can take on anything. Now I was not in shape for this race so that could have definatley aided to my issues but my stomach was in knots for hours and I tried to live off the land out there drinking PBP all day. Can't pin point it and say that caused me issues but I am sure going to do much more testing with it over the winter and Spring to see if I can use it sucessfully in Idaho. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() It may be that it's just too "rich" for you at this point. I used it for the first time at an ironman race a couple weeks ago and while it didn't taste great it didn't give me any problems that I haven't had in an ironman race before. I think it just takes some getting used to. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2010-10-26 5:42 AM Sorry - if I wrote PBF I meant PBP - the "ironman perform" drink. Too late to edit. I feel for you on the marathon. The reason I've learned what I have and had the success that I've had with the type of training I'm advocating now is that I learned the hard way. All through high school I had shin splints and ankle problems that ruined my season. I would be number 2 on the team a month into the season, and then fade back and barely make varsity (top 7) by the end of each season. The reason for that - I was number 2 on the team and always tried to outrun number 1 in practice... whereas number 1 was in better shape than me in part through genetics and in part through consistency (he showed up in top shape after running big miles every summer... something I was too distracted to do while skirt chasing). OK, for the PBF I thought you were referring to one of the Power Bar Bars. Thanks for he clarification. I have to admit, what you are advocating is quite appealing since most of my injuries are caused by going on long runs or by doing speed work. I don't think I can get 6 or more runs done in a week, but I may give it a try. It may be challenging with swimming and biking that needs to be done also. I do agree that the consistent miles builds a solid base. Thanks for the bio and info. I find it to be enlightening. ![]() |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The wife and I bought a few PowerBar Gels to test (since that's what on the course). They had the consistency (and sweetness) of cake frosting. I'm not sure how anyone can eat that stuff. Are they all this bad or did we just get a bad batch or flavor (chocolate I think it was) |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Just one more encouragement - 6x is not as hard as it sounds. In my experience, and the experience of others who have tried it... once you start it and adjust to it you will feel like you need to run 6+ times a week. It will just become part of your life. If it helps, think of it as 3 runs a week. One long run, and two medium ones. The rest are insignificant from a time/recovery perspective. For me (I ran 7-9 times a week in IM training), the best pattern to get into was to get up every day early and run. You can do that in the dark, and if you prepare the night before (I often slept in my running clothes for the next day) you can be out the door in 5 minutes for a 30-45 minute easy run. The evenings were where I found time to bike (daylight) or swim (hard for me from a scheduling perspective since a 45 minute swim takes 90 minutes when you throw in the commute). Since you can do both of those at a much higher intensity without real injury risk, I don't think it is as important to get volume through frequency there... you can accomplish the same training stress by having a few intense workouts with ample recovery between them. What that meant for me is that I never rode longer than 90 minutes on a weekday, and rarely swam more than 45 minutes... but every stroke (pedal or arm) was HARD. And then mixed in every available free moment was easy running miles. I do my long run on tuesdays or wednesdays (wake up REALLY early one day per week), and my long bike on saturdays... so that both can be quality workouts without significant fatigue in my legs... and then Sundays just had a short workout and left plenty of time for church + family time (I think keeping the family happy during IM training is really important for long term success in the sport - I do this by forcing myself to not just collapse on the couch after my logn rides, and giving them all of Sunday (except a short little recovery jog + swim either before they wake up, or in the afternoon with the family). |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2010-10-28 7:38 AM Just one more encouragement - 6x is not as hard as it sounds. In my experience, and the experience of others who have tried it... once you start it and adjust to it you will feel like you need to run 6+ times a week. It will just become part of your life. x2 - I find that when O am running 5 or 6 times per week, when I take a day off, it feels like I haven't ran in FOREVER! I do find that the short, easy runs that Josh is talking about are helpful. pacing makes a huge difference. Here is my strategy right now during marathon training: Easy/Recovery run pace: 8:30-8:45 Long run pace - 8:00 - 8:10 Normal pace - 7:45-8:00 Tempo - 7:00 or under |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sorry - if I wrote PBF I meant PBP - the "ironman perform" drink. Too late to edit. I'm just glad you didn't mean PBR...I was going to ask if they served it in the 40 oz cans. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() the best pattern to get into was to get up every day early and run. You can do that in the dark I actually just bought a nice rechargeable headlamp last night to assist with running in the offseason up north. http://www.rei.com/product/796178 Yeah there are cheaper ones but this has a red LED in back, plus it'll pay itself off in a couple months since I won't be buying batteries. |
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