Bike Intensity... (Page 3)
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2008-03-18 8:48 AM This thread has been helpful to me. I think I was one of the people it was started for....My longish rides (2-3 hours) have been pretty easy. I did one yesterday in mid Z3 for 2.5 hours and it felt great. My pace was also much better. As far as IM pacing/HR zone, I will see how I do on my longer rides (100+ miles) in the next few months to see what I can tolerate and still be able to run the marathon. Not once did I ever come back from a long training ride done at what would be my IM race pace/effort, and think I could run a marathon during training. As I mentioned before, Fred, the cummulative effect of the fatigue of constant training will never allow you to feel that way. That's what a taper is for! |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Reading all this very useful thread, I start to be convinced that in theory if you train indoor for long rides (and not only) you will get much more benefits than going outside. Do you agree? Tipically, long indoor session for me stay for long period between 125 and 140 bpm while when I go outside I can go on that side not continously like I do on my trainer. The counterpart is that, since I do always brick after long ride, going off from my trainer in 3 minutes I feel like I did nothing even if I pushed hard. Going off from my bike from outdoor training is much more painful even if I did it at lower average bpm. Is it normal? Is it because of the position? |
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Not a Coach![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Plissken74 - 2008-03-18 9:41 AM Reading all this very useful thread, I start to be convinced that in theory if you train indoor for long rides (and not only) you will get much more benefits than going outside. Do you agree? Tipically, long indoor session for me stay for long period between 125 and 140 bpm while when I go outside I can go on that side not continously like I do on my trainer. The counterpart is that, since I do always brick after long ride, going off from my trainer in 3 minutes I feel like I did nothing even if I pushed hard. Going off from my bike from outdoor training is much more painful even if I did it at lower average bpm. Is it normal? Is it because of the position? There's no reason why work inside should be any different from work outside (there are some potential cooling issues riding inside). You can use the same position insde & out as well. Inside does allow you to easily hold 'steady' pacing since you don't have to deal with terrain, traffic, etc. But there's no reason you can't do good work outside. I ride indoors a fair amount (and all through the season), but this has mostly to do with what works best for me from a scheduling standpoint (often ride early when it is dark and much less safe for outside riding). |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JohnnyKay - 2008-03-17 4:56 PM There's no reason why work inside should be any different from work outside (there are some potential cooling issues riding inside). You can use the same position insde & out as well. Inside does allow you to easily hold 'steady' pacing since you don't have to deal with terrain, traffic, etc. But there's no reason you can't do good work outside. I ride indoors a fair amount (and all through the season), but this has mostly to do with what works best for me from a scheduling standpoint (often ride early when it is dark and much less safe for outside riding). Well, that is the same for me too: I work very well indoor where I can ride when it is dark outside or very cold and I have the feeling I did my planned workout as expected, very motivated after it. But again the main issue indoor is that brick done from indoor bike to outside running seems very easy and I can go outside with a very fast pace from beginning. No pain at all. Is the same for you? |
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Cycling Guru![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My HR tends to be lower indoors to begin with (even using the level 3 setting which is the hardest on my trainer). I can see where he is coming from with that though. You are putting a constant load on your body as you said. This is why a lot of people prescribe that doing indoor work versus outdoor is about a 60 - 70% difference in time needed for the same sort of workout. I just refuse to do mind-numbing trainer rides anymore. I've done 3 - 4 hour rides in the past indoors. I have a hard enough time doing more than an hour now ...... |
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Not a Coach![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Plissken74 - 2008-03-18 10:03 AM JohnnyKay - 2008-03-17 4:56 PM Well, that is the same for me too: I work very well indoor where I can ride when it is dark outside or very cold and I have the feeling I did my planned workout as expected, very motivated after it. But again the main issue indoor is that brick done from indoor bike to outside running seems very easy and I can go outside with a very fast pace from beginning. No pain at all. Is the same for you?
There's no reason why work inside should be any different from work outside (there are some potential cooling issues riding inside). You can use the same position insde & out as well. Inside does allow you to easily hold 'steady' pacing since you don't have to deal with terrain, traffic, etc. But there's no reason you can't do good work outside. I ride indoors a fair amount (and all through the season), but this has mostly to do with what works best for me from a scheduling standpoint (often ride early when it is dark and much less safe for outside riding). Running off the bike is totally dependent on the type of ride I just did, regardless of whether the ride was indoor or out. Most of my indoor rides are shorter in duration, so that in and of itself generally makes it 'easier' to hit the run. |
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Not a Coach![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2008-03-18 10:06 AM The only thing I would add about indoor vs. outdoor bike training is that since there is no 'coasting' on a trainer ride, that it is a slightly different kind of effort. No downhills etc. My coach feels as though trainer LSD rides should be at a lower HR than outdoor long rides. This is controversial though... ![]() Yes, a steady ride can be very different than a more variable ride. Why on earth would anybody do an LSD trainer ride? |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Plissken74 - 2008-03-18 9:41 AM Reading all this very useful thread, I start to be convinced that in theory if you train indoor for long rides (and not only) you will get much more benefits than going outside. Do you agree? Tipically, long indoor session for me stay for long period between 125 and 140 bpm while when I go outside I can go on that side not continously like I do on my trainer. The counterpart is that, since I do always brick after long ride, going off from my trainer in 3 minutes I feel like I did nothing even if I pushed hard. Going off from my bike from outdoor training is much more painful even if I did it at lower average bpm. Is it normal? Is it because of the position? I've noticed this also, I don't seem to be as tired after more intense trainer rides than after less intense outdoors rides. The one thing that I can think of that may cause this change would be that you can be much more relaxed on the trainer. You can close your eyes and drop your head if you want, you don't have to be constantly watching for traffic, pedestrians, course changes, etc, and you don't have to worry about balancing. All of those things seem small and insignificant, but they may do more than you might think? |
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Pro![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I've got a question for you BT cycling giants that's not completely related to this topic but it definitely got me to thinking. I'm training for my first 70.3 event that's coming up in June and I'm following the BT beginner HIM training plan. All this week [recovery week] I have two 30 min. and one 60 min rides that are small ring, easy effort, "spin the legs out" type stuff. After reading through this thread I'm wondering if I'm just wasting my time doing that stuff and if I need to keep the intensity up or just do what the plan says because I don't exactly have the bike "base" that I probably need to even start thinking about some of the things that have come up in this thread? I don't know my HR training zones yet and I'm going to do the 30 min test during my 1 hr ride on Friday so I can figure that out. So... yeah, discuss. Please ![]() |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. Edited by JeepFleeb 2008-03-18 11:00 PM |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2008-03-18 8:42 PM Bripod - 2008-03-18 9:31 PM I've got a question for you BT cycling giants that's not completely related to this topic but it definitely got me to thinking. I'm training for my first 70.3 event that's coming up in June and I'm following the BT beginner HIM training plan. All this week [recovery week] I have two 30 min. and one 60 min rides that are small ring, easy effort, "spin the legs out" type stuff. After reading through this thread I'm wondering if I'm just wasting my time doing that stuff and if I need to keep the intensity up or just do what the plan says because I don't exactly have the bike "base" that I probably need to even start thinking about some of the things that have come up in this thread? I don't know my HR training zones yet and I'm going to do the 30 min test during my 1 hr ride on Friday so I can figure that out. So... yeah, discuss. Please ![]() just be careful... I think Bryan is talking about a more experienced athlete.... since you are doing your first 70.3 I wouldn't push too hard on the ez rides. Build up a bike base slowly
Yes, if this is all new to you, stick to the plan you are using, don't do what we are discussing. And Fred, those century rides you posted from last year are very similar to mine as we train the same zones, so you clearly worked those fairly hard. Most of mine came in averaging low 140's. That's the kind of effort I am talking about. ![]() Edited by bryancd 2008-03-19 8:30 AM |
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Cycling Guru![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Here are some of my longer rides as a comparison:
(Not sure why I didn't have a HR recording)
Granted, my terrain is not as rolling as Fred's up there in central PA, but it is also never flat around here. I also didn't include the 112 from Chessieman here which was my only other ride over 100 before my IM. I did not have HR data in the logs, but I averaged in the 160 range for that on a flat (but brutally windy) course with a 21.8 average overall after sitting up after the brushfire and re-routing of the course. My bike LT is in the 170 range as compared to Fred and Bryan's (un-calculated - cough cough) lower range. |
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Pro![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JeepFleeb - 2008-03-18 11:00 PM Bripod - 2008-03-18 8:31 PM All this week [recovery week] I have two 30 min. and one 60 min rides that are small ring, easy effort, "spin the legs out" type stuff. After reading through this thread I'm wondering if I'm just wasting my time doing that stuff and if I need to keep the intensity up or just do what the plan says because... They didn't name it a 'recovery week' because it had a nice ring to it. ha ha okay you goober! ![]() |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Daremo - 2008-03-18 3:53 PM Here are some of my longer rides as a comparison:
(Not sure why I didn't have a HR recording)
Granted, my terrain is not as rolling as Fred's up there in central PA, but it is also never flat around here. I also didn't include the 112 from Chessieman here which was my only other ride over 100 before my IM. I did not have HR data in the logs, but I averaged in the 160 range for that on a flat (but brutally windy) course with a 21.8 average overall after sitting up after the brushfire and re-routing of the course. My bike LT is in the 170 range as compared to Fred and Bryan's (un-calculated - cough cough) lower range. My God! I feel sooo weak on the bike now! |
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Cycling Guru![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Don't look at Bryan's logs then ....... ![]() |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Aaron, I never said "speed" I said "effort" as measured by either HR or wattage. Speed is variable dependent on terrain, conditions, ect (of course HR is to, but let's just keep it simple) so pace can't be the protocol. I will say that in my experience, and based on the examples which Rick and Fred listed above, that pace they demonstrated during these long, more race simulation effort rides was what they showed up with on race day. In my case, my long rides of 100+ miles done in my race aerobic zone all were 21-22mph average, and 22mph is what I averaged at both IMAZ and Hawaii. So again, I KNEW exactly how fast I would ride going into both races and it was dead accurate. I atribute that pace to the fact that I trained at race effort for so long and my pace benefited was locked in. I made this point in another thread we had once where I commented that a well trained IM athlete should be able to look back on their training and see their IM race in their pace results of their aerobic training. I think at the time I mentioned that the Ironman Fairy doesn't show up on race morning and sprinkle pixie dust around and suddenly we can ride 1-2mph faster. ![]() |
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