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2007-05-23 12:17 PM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
I did it! finally, my first morning workout for a very long time! I got in a 30 swim AND went to the morning yoga class that I have always been missing! Actually, I probably over did it a little since I'm starting to feel tired right now. Maybe I should hide in a corner and take a quick nap...


2007-05-23 1:22 PM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

Congrats triornot. Getting started.. or re-started in this case is always the most difficult part.

On another note, I had a fit test with Mizuno today. They are doing a study here in Atlanta. I have high arches.. knew that, right foot is imperceptibly bigger then my left... obvious as I get one toe that loses it's nail consistantly on my right foot. I need to wear a support shoe, not a control shoe which I am currently wearing. I am slightly bow legged, and my right knee bends inward / foot outward. My left leg is neutral. They had these high speed cameras there to film you on a treadmill from the left side. Those were SWEEEET. When I ran barefoot, I was a consistant forefoot striker. When I had shoes on, I became a midsole striker. Watching it back in slow motion (normal speed from a high speed shot) was the best part. Watching the foot land and the muscles engage was amazing. Definitely the most technical testing I have ever done running wise. They even taped those little balls that they use to track motion for computer animation to my feet and legs. 

Anyway.. lots of useful information.



Edited by atl_runner 2007-05-23 1:24 PM
2007-05-23 2:07 PM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
Very cool Ron.  Did you pick up a pair of Mizuno running shoes?  I've been very happy with Asics.  Didn't have the extensive testing done like you, but did utilize a PT clinic / running shoe store and had a PT watch me run on the treadmill and help select the shoes.  Really made a difference for me.
2007-05-23 2:58 PM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

Congrats triornot!  That's awesome!

 I decided to skip my mid-day master's workout today.....decided it was just one extra stress I don't really need right now.  I did make it to the pool and did a new time trial.  Looks like I'm about 7 sec/100yds faster than I was a month ago!  Woohoo!   Back when I did the first time trial I had only just started doing swim workouts, so apparently regular swim workouts actually do pay off. 

2007-05-23 4:24 PM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
Congratulations lil turtle on the faster time trial! Great to see results to those efforts. Ron, that run analysis sounded really helpful.

As for the morning work outs, you have to use whatever motivation you can get. Sometimes it gets me up just because I know there is no other option for a work out that day. Sometimes the goal of IMFL gets me up. In the past with running, I used to tell myself that all the runners running whatever time my goal was got themselves out of bed at this time of the morning and that is what I needed to do to hit that goal. (i.e. for Peter, all the 1:10 racers in the sprint race are getting up this early)

Edited by kimje 2007-05-23 4:27 PM
2007-05-23 4:25 PM
in reply to: #813812

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

Ron - That is sooo cool!!!!  I've become a big fan of Mizuno shoes as well.  I'm on my 3rd pair - Anyway, it'd be really neat-o if you could post the video  

(yes, I actually rhymed)



2007-05-23 7:19 PM
in reply to: #808946

Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
daspanglers,

Welcome. Sounds like you have found something to rekindle the competative spirit of yours. Great job on the weight loss. I like the attitude that you're not in a rush. Really, you shouldn't be. What you have done so far is excellent. Have you considered any longer distances in terms of running, such as a half or full marathon? How are your knees holding up to this point in your training?

----------------------------------------------------

I think it's been a mid-life crisis that got me started training for a tri. Bought some books and started slow. Found this sight and met some local folks through the YMCA and have had great support and lots of fun doing it in the mean time.

I do plan on a 1/2 marathon sometime. I had a few friends and other BTers that just did the Green Bay HM. I'm not quite up to that distance yet but plan to be by fall. Will definately enter an HM next season. In the meantime, I'm sticking to sprint tris and 5Ks.

I've had absolutely no issues with my knees up to this point...knock on wood...I've always played football and lifted heavy weights so most of my weight I'd like to claim is from muscle and working out all the fast twitch muscle fibers. I haven't been below the Mendoza line, so to speak, (under 200) since I was in high school.

Work for the past month or so has been super crazy - 12 to 16 days constantly. And weekends. My wife works during the day and I work during the afternoon / night. Any free moment I get I try to spend w/ the family so I have to work extra hard at getting in some training. Hopefully after the new model year launch that work pattern will stablize.

Thanks for taking on the role of mentor on behalf of the whole group. Looking forward to all the great stories and sharing of knowledge.
2007-05-24 9:08 AM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

Triforresttri.. I asked for them to email me a copy of the video, but they gave me a strange look and said they were taking them back to Japan for analysis. This study was done from a hotel conference room set up with all the equipment. There were three people there straight from Japan, and one American who walked you through the process. Definitely a corporate function and a true study because they were making all these comments while I was running. It was really neat. I've been in the Mizuno Alchemy's for about three years now. I'm going to move to the Inspire per their suggestion. Same platform and cushioning, just not as much control forcing your foot to the roll neutral as opposed to medially.. in the end, it's just a different wave plate.

Last nights workout was tough and intense. Did a Spin run Spin class with a local USAT coach who runs his own classes. Had to wear a pack while spinning, and the run was very hilly. Lots of sweat, lots of pain. At the end he says: "I hope you did not enjoy this class, if you did, then you just cheated yourself" I didn't have any problem.. I didn't enjoy it. Actually in a weird, sick way, I kind of did. I like to be challenged to become the best I can possibly be.

How did everyone else do with yesterdays workouts?

2007-05-24 9:57 AM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
I did well with yesterday's work out and Tuesday's, but today I was dragging in the pool. My arms and shoulders were just plain tired. I know I need a day off. I am trying to make it until Sunday for a planned day off, and next week is a rest week as we are going out of town. I most likely won't have any bike time next week at all.

Ron, your work out yesterday sounds like a killer!
2007-05-24 10:41 AM
in reply to: #814930

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
alt - that fit test sounds great! much more in-depth than anything I've heard of. did they offer to give you free shoes?

good work on the weighted workouts. how come you were wearing a pack during your spin class though? surely if you're not actually going anywhere it wouldn't have that much effect? I've been recommended "heavy hand running" for good strength and endurance improvements. My brother does it with a couple of 2kg weights in each hand and that really picked his speed up quickly.

my work out was great. there's nothing like swimming big (for me) sets to get that zen like feeling going. I must remember not to wear a tight-ish shirt if i'm going to swim like that though - the damn thing only just fit across the shoulders and back afterwards!! lol

One thing I'd like your opinion on, guys, is turns - is it worth learning flip / tumble turns? I've been doing the usual "slow" push turns but found a new way to do it last night that was much quicker for me. I was swimming up as per usual, touch with left hand, bring feet to the wall, releasing with the hands and then pushing off through the water on my back and using my next arm stroke to bring me rolling onto my front again. I was surprised with how well it worked (when I remembered to breathe out through my nose!) so it got me thinking
2007-05-24 11:16 AM
in reply to: #805274

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
i supposed yesterday's work out for me was a good start. Although with the way I was attempting to swim, I might need to take couple more swim lessons :P. What are your thoughts on small group classes vs individual one-on-one lessons? does it make a big difference?


2007-05-24 11:21 AM
in reply to: #815221

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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
triornot - 2007-05-24 4:16 PM

i supposed yesterday's work out for me was a good start. Although with the way I was attempting to swim, I might need to take couple more swim lessons :P. What are your thoughts on small group classes vs individual one-on-one lessons? does it make a big difference?


I'd definitely go for the one-on-one lessons, mate. That way you'll have the full attention of the instructor and they can really deal with any issues etc. You'll probably find you won't need as many lessons with them as they'll usually tear you apart (in a nice way) during the lesson and set you some drills / targets to do on you own.
2007-05-24 12:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
One on one... and you CAN'T go wrong with lessons. If you are considering them, then just do it. The sooner, the better.
I am not a flip turn guy right now, but I have a pretty efficient open turn that I use. I would say it's 75 percent as efficient as a flip turn. I do plan on learning flip turns though. It's a good sign that you have arrived as a swimmer. Why continue to look like an amature when I'm really not. I would say that flip turns are one of the few major things I have left to learn regarding swimming. The rest is correction and fine tuning. I just think as I do some of my upcoming Ironman training swims, ~4000 Yards, that flip turning will make it that much more doable. If you know what I mean.
2007-05-24 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
would one-on-one be beneficial for absolute beginners like me tho? I had started out taking small beginner classes (about 5 1-hr sessions) but it has ended now. I am planning to start practicing on my own too but thought maybe I need couple more lessons to make sure i'm doing the right thing. The place i took the classes offers both private ($35/half hour session) and semi-private lessons(20/half hour session) as well. Which would you recommend?
2007-05-24 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
I would think if you're still really learning the basics of how to swim then the group lessons would be good.  If you have a pretty good handle on the stroke and you want to work on specific issues or specific bad habits of yours, go with the private.  I'm also looking to take a lesson (going for private) but my stupid pool has discontinued all lessons for the time being, and I don't know where to even begin looking for other places.  There's lots of pools in my area but since I know nothing about any of them it would all be just a close my eyes and point type thing to pick!  Hopefully this summer I can find a good teacher.  Good luck w/whichever you choose!
2007-05-24 1:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
I have to disagree with the group teaching in swimming because there is not enough focus and the classes are too generic. I recommend going private. They will get you on the right path for you much faster than the group level. There is a reason the group classes are cheaper. More people, more value for the instructor vs the student, and is only going to get you good at basics and will max out at making you average. One on one makes you the focus, and in swimming, especially an adult learning how to swim freestyle properly, that is hugely important.


2007-05-24 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

Triornot--I strongly suggest one on one lessons.  Everyone feels the water differently, and having the undivided attention of an expert will help you get functional much sooner.  So much of swimming is learning to be efficient in the water.  I can't tell you how much the few one on one sessions I did this season are helping me.

Re: flip turns, I've only just embraced them the last two weeks.  The first new thing for this year was alternate side breathing, which I now have down pat, and next was flip turns, which I am rapidly improving.  Started off only doing them in the deep end as I tended to go too deep, but yesterday I successfully threw a couple in the shallow end too!  Definately faster than my well practiced open turns.

Yesterday's 30m swim was my shortest in a while but all speed work.  Definately felt tired at the end but today I don't feel tired in my shoulders at all.  New discomfort in my hip since yesterdays run which is a cause of concern.  Coach e-mailed me right away to get more scoop, we'll see what his thoughts are to my more in depth description.  Hopefully a non-issue for my bike ride tonight.

It's almost Friday already!  For those of you in the states, any exciting plans for the holiday weekend?  Saturday morning I am riding one loop of the IMWI course (75 miles) with the Tri Wisconsin team.  This will be my first ride on the course, pretty excited about it.  Hope to get in some open water swims Sunday and Monday.

2007-05-24 2:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
as with anything that as technique driven, one-on-one sessions with a coach are the way forward. Trust me on this one - i've received and given enough 1-on-1 coaching in other sports / arts over the years and there's nothing like seeing someone who's struggled with a technique for ages suddenly have it click after a few sessions

Well, it's a bank holiday in the UK too this weekend so my plan is something like this:
Friday - gym, work, swim, prep car, house party
Saturday - 25M bike ride, drive about 250 mile (a lot of it in the wrong direction too. don't ask) to Essex with friends
Sunday - Twickenham for the Rugby 7's!
Monday - drive 250 miles back, a 4M TT run and get ready for work on Tuesday

bring on the following weekend so I can rest!!
2007-05-24 2:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

Another vote for swim lessons. 

And another vote to learn flip turns.

2007-05-24 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
PeterAK.. get some good details on the course.. I need a great scouting report. Seriously.. details details details.
2007-05-24 3:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
You got it!


2007-05-24 4:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.

K everyone....I've got a question for you all....

A running group in my area does monthly 2 mile races.  It's free, and really laid back, but they do keep track of times.  For each race you do they record your time and keep track of your handicap, and then the person that beats their handicap by the most each month is considered the winner for that race.  It's something I've been really wanting to do because my running is nowhere near winning anything, but I have been pretty good at improving.  

But...of course....i've mentioned my shin issues here.  Earlier this month I did a 2 mile race w/my shins wrapped and I did it pain free.  After going to the dr. and getting an MRI, he concluded that I don't have a stress fracture, and cleared me to do anything that doesn't cause pain since there's not the risk of further injury.  He said to hold off on any run training though and sent me to a foot specialist.  Went to the specialist and I have orthotics on order.  He also said to not push the running thing until I get the orthotics and get used to them.

So the next race this group is doing is June 2nd.  I really want to do it because I want to get a handicap time in the system so I can be "competitive" for the next one in July.  Assuming that it doesn't cause pain, would I be ok to do this race?  I'm thinking it's ok because it's not like i'm going back to running long distances or anything, just a quick 2-miler.  But I don't want to do anything that will make my recovery time even longer for getting back to regular running.  I may have the orthotics before this race but I doubt it. 

Any thoughts?   

2007-05-24 6:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
I'd say go for it but be very careful
2007-05-24 10:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
I say go for it.  If you experience pain during the race you can just walk the rest of the way!  Sounds like a fun group.
2007-05-25 6:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Atl_runner's group - Full.
Ok, I'm creamed after my 6 mile last night but I ain't quitting! and just so you can all keep an eye on me and deliver the required kicks etc, I've posted my plan for the next week or so in my logs. well at least I've got a rest day coming up soon. haven't i?! *worried*
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