Fred D and Queen Zipp's SWIM, BIKE RUN consistency thread.... CLOSED (Page 30)

Morning, All!

I got my run on this morning.  SLOW but done.   That's the good thing.  

Seeing some nice training going on out there.   Hope all stay healthy!

Morning Everyone!

Looks like everyone is getting in a lot of good training these past few days.  Great job(s)!

I did 53 torturous minutes on the spin bike at the gym, followed by 1100 yards in the pool.  I don't know what was wrong on the bike, but I just couldn't generate any real power when the resistance was even moderately high.  I ended up spinning with a much higher cadence than normal in a lower resistance just to get the workout done.  Swim was pretty good though, even though it was in the 50m monster and I got there just as both the university swim teams and the master's class were hitting their stride (i.e. even the slowest other person in the pool was blowing by me).\

Have a great day!

g

I have never had the opportunity to swim in a 50 meter pool.  My guess is I am so used to the turn at 25 yards that I would feel totally spent on the first 50!  Would take a bit to get used to.  Yes, I would probably be passed by the slowest of the slow too.  

Gym bikes are strange beasts with the tension.  I often find that they are not equivalent from bike to bike.  Heck, even the same bike from one day to the next.  However, if you don't have a trainer at home these are the best way to get the butt used to the saddle and the legs used to spinning.

Good morning everyone.

Unexpected slow morning today so I just wanted to quickly share a few race reports =).  I ran the LA half-marathon in mid Jan and the Surf City half marathon last weekend. I'm a very slow runner to begin with and both were completed at a comfortable pace. I ran with a tri friend for the 2nd race and made it a point to stay in zone 2 which included some walking. We basically had conversation throughout the whole race. Although I've always used a HR monitor, I've never really had zone training experience. I was amazing how good I felt at race end and how less sore I was post race.

Thanks to all the advice I received here awhile back, my first century the past Saturday was an overall great experience. I packed enough gu, waffles, bloks and bars to last weeks but wanted to make sure I was prepared. I used heed and water for hydration. Thankfully the SAG stops were well stocked with water, fruit, sandwiches, etc

It started a bit hairy as it was about 40 degrees and the first 10miles or so were uphill and quite windy...I was thinking to myself it was going to be a brutally long day but that early part was probably the toughest segment of the race. I skipped the first SAG stop as it was still chilly but stopped at the next three SAG stops to replenish and stretch..also skipped the last SAG stop as it was at mile 93 and I knew I had a tri tip sandwich waiting for me at the finish =) 

The route was basically alot of rolling hills but nothing to steep. The temp remained in the mid 50s sunny and clear for much of the ride and didn't hit 63ish til the end. I got to ride in a few groups and lines throughout the race and experienced riding with alot of people for the first time. It took me 7 hours and change to complete the century but I actually felt really good at the end with no issues of cramping throughout the ride. My triceps and calves are still a bit tender but I thought I would feel a lot worse. The century was about 2 hours longer then any long run or bike ride I've ever done so mentally it feels great.

My first beginner sprint tri is in 2 weeks. I can't believe how time flies and its already here. I will have a few questions soon.

Thanks everyone and have a great week !

ok, I ran today.  I did a lot of pondering and looking at really old logs over the weekend to see if I could think of something to do differently with running.  In short, I'm disappointed that I was unable to maintain a consistent 6days/week run schedule even at a ridiculously slow pace.  The thing that stopped me up was tightness in the calf's, and pain in my feet.  Here's my hypothesis, and what I'm planning on trying, let me know if I'm in left field here...

In order to slow my pace down enough to keep my HR is zone 2 after an extended time away from endurance sport, I ended up running at a much slower cadence than my natural pace.  It was down around 70 steps/minute, compared to a natural run cadence of 80-85 if I'm just running without paying attention.  I suspect this lower cadence caused higher impact stresses on my feet/legs, despite running slower.  

So instead of running slow all the time, I am going to try a run/walk (as suggested by Tri808 a while back) where I run a normal comfortable but easy pace for 5 minutes, then walk for a bit to bring the HR back down. 

I tried this today, didn't wear the HR monitor, and only ran for 15 minutes.  I just ran smooth and easy maintaining 85 to 90rpm for 5 minutes, then walked for about 1 minute.  Another walk break at 10 minutes.  After 15 minutes of running everything felt fine, but I'm sure it would have anyway on such a short run.  My pace was 10:30 combined, compared to the 11:30 I had been running this year to keep the HR in Z2.  I'm sure my HR was high today, but I think I want to just run comfortable for a while and not worry as much about keeping the HR down right now.

Any thoughts on this strategy?  Just try it and see what happens?

I'm also going to stay off the bike for a few days just so I don't confuse the issue, and can just focus on how my legs feel running.

david.

While I don't know if your cadence has anything to do with your recent calf/feet issues, I do agree that getting in the mid 90s is the goal. Shortening my stride and increasing my turnover is the way I get there.  Is that what you're doing?

 If it were me, I would wear that HR monitor even if you only look at it after the fact (assuming you upload data).  I would be curious what your HR was during those run intervals.

David, I believe the key is to monitor your overall training load.  Training load is a factor of time and intensity.  Using a run/walk is a good way to ease your way into more training by increasing frequency and time, but keeping intensity down.  But it's still a balance.  Just because you decrease intensity, it doesn't mean you can increase time and frequency as much as you want.

My suggestion would be to ease into 6x a week. 

Start with - 3x 5:1 run/walk ratio, 1x 1:1 run/walk
A few weeks later - 3x all run, 1x 5:1 run/walk, 1x 1:1 run/walk
A few weeks later - 4x all run, 1x 5:1 run/walk, 1x 1:1 run/walk
A few weeks later - 5x all run, 1x 5:1 run/walk
A few weeks later - 6x all run

Throughout this whole process, you probably want very little to no distance added.  You are slowly focusing on increasing intensity, but you don't want to focus on adding both intensity and distance at the same time.  Once you get to the point of being able to run 6x a week, then slowly add distance...spreading them out over your 6 runs.

basically in an attempt to slow down, I shortened my stride as much as i could, and then resorted to slowing down my cadence to go even slower.  I didn't do this on purpose really, but it's what happened.  So now, in today's run, I just ran 'comfortable' while keeping my cadence around 90, and my stride as short as I could go.  Any shorter of a stride and I'm shuffling very uncomfortably.  In exchange for the faster pace I took walk breaks.

I didn't wear my HR today because I just wanted to run free I guess, but I will next time.  Probably tomorrow assuming I feel good.  Right now I feel great.  After the short run I stretched a bit, then iced my legs and feet.  I just got home from Softball practice (I'm just the coach, but it does involve lots of running around and quick start/stops for 1.5 hours) and the legs feel better than they have in a few days (which included a lot of doing nothing).  I'll re-evaluate in the morning, but will probably do another short run tomorrow.  I'll try to hit the 'lap' button at the beginning and end of each walk segment so I can see just how fast I'm running.

Thanks for the thoughts, feel free to rap me on the head once in a while!  I guess the dilemma is where to place that initial workload mark.  I obviously went a little too high before.  I'm starting shorter now, probably around 10-15 miles / week which I'll hold for a while this time instead of immediately ratcheting it up every week.  I just know from past (and recent) experience that I do much better if I'm running every day.  It's more fun, easier to keep the daily motivation to get out there, and each run feels better than if I'm running every other day.  So I'd really like to make it work!  But yes, if I were smart I'd start out 3x/week and build to it instead of just jumping in like I did...

David,

If you feel better running every day, then there's a way you can do that too.  Again, it just goes back to that formula.  If you're going to increase your volume (meaning bump to 6x per week), then you simply need to decrease intensity accordingly.

So maybe you can do (I'm assuming each of your runs is about 30 minutes)...
3x 1:1 run/walk (about 1.8 miles each, 5.4 total)
2x 3:1 run/walk (about 2.5 miles each, 5 total)
1x 5:1 run/walk (about 2.8 miles)

That gets you around 13ish miles of actual running and all the walking you're doing is sort of equal to another mile of running...so your overall training load is similar to 14-14.5 miles of running.  Or you can try other variations however you see fit...but the key is to figure out what volume of running you can handle, then spread it out over however many days you want to run.

I should correct myeslf in my previous post where you should not try to increase intensity and distance at the same time.  What I really meant to say was not to increase intensity and "time" together.  If you keep all your runs at the same time, but increase intensity to move from run/walk to all runs, your distance will naturally increase.  Your body doesn't actually know what "distance" is though.  It just knows intensity and how long you are holding that intensity (time).

Congratulations on your first CENTURY ride - GREAT JOB!

Enjoy that first sprint, it'll be different, but you'll have a great time.   Go have fun!

Hate when that happens.   Maybe your Dr can give you something to help  

Get feeling better!

Hey team ---

Made two workouts in a row... 2150 yards in my bathing suit this morning!  Felt great!

David, I don't know enough to give you specific advice, but I do know that Jason's advice is excellent. I read tri talk a lot, and I always pay close attention when Jason posts because he knows his stuff.

Rich, great job on the century. I'm looking forward to watching you on your first tri.

Fred, too bad about the sinuses. I know it's hard, but try to get some rest!

I spent the last few months carefully building my running back to over 20mpw. Just did basic 3 week builds following the 10% rule followed by a recovery week. Did 26 miles last week, this week is a recovery week and I feel great physically, and just as important, I feel great mentally.

Keep up the great work everybody!

agreed for sure!  It's awesome to be able to get advice from such experienced athletes around here.  Even if it looks like I don't always take the good advice, it does sink in there somewhere to ponder for later. 

That's a perfect 'lead by example.'  Pretty much where I'd like to be, eventually right around 25mpw.  Slow and steady, build and rest.  Who'd a thunk?

I had a great swim this morning, I never really imagined the pool being my happy place, but it was nice to just get in and swim, no thinking about anything.  No pacing, no counting steps, just swim.  Well, except to remember to not push off the wall.  A few timed 'hard' effort 100's were right around 1:45, and with the pull bouy (which I still used a bit) I was ~1:40.  Normal distance relaxed swim is still right around 2:00/100.  

I'm feeling real good today, going to go for another run in a bit and see how it all feels.

david.

What is the rational to include the other strokes (which I don't even know, couldn't do them if I wanted to!)?  Is it something that is included just because it 'should be', or is there a benefit to a distance freestyler?  Does it work as a cross training of sorts?

Sorry to hear that!  I haven't had a sinus issue yet this year, which I usually do when I start up swimming.  Only difference I know of is my using the Nettie pot after every swim.  Tough to do, but getting easier.  My kids watched me do it once, totally grossed them out, so that was cool. 

So having said that, I'll probably get an infection next week...

david.

There was a thread about a month ago in TT, I will look for it and link it.  Someone whom I have high regard for here on BT gave good rationale for why we might want to do all 4 strokes.  Again, this is a matter of disparaging opinions and in the grand scheme of things.....we don't have that much time to learn all the strokes when training for triathlon.  However, someone with a strong swim background could easily do IM sets just for fun and keeping proficient.  This is not me!

I think most triathletes don't swim nearly enough and are somewhat "time crunched" when it comes to swimming.  In those cases, you probably are best off spending most if not all of your time working on freestyle.

But I do think learning other strokes is a great way (assuming you have the time) to increase the duration of your swim workouts and present new challenges for yourself.  If you want to swim 4-5x a week, 4-5k per session, you gotta admit that doing all freestyle is going to get pretty darn boring.  Mixing it up and having secondary goals to improve your other strokes is a great way to stay motivated at the pool.

In addition, you'll likely get small benefits of improving muscular balance and a better feel for the water, but I still say the biggest reason why you should do other strokes is to simply allow yourself to swim more.

I crunched some numbers after today's 30 minute run (which I did 5 min run, 1 min walk intervals).  In total I ran 2.63 miles in 26.03 minutes, for an average of 9:54 min/mile.  The HR on my final three 5 min run intervals averaged right around 152, which is solidly in the middle of my Zone 3.