Baowolf's Beginner Banquet -Sorry all tables are full no room.. (Page 32)

I am going for a BS in Aerospace Engineering and it will get much worse before it gets better but I should start looking at this as a way to finally start managing my calender!   I've got a couple more years left thanks to the the extensive math but I think it will be worth it in the end.  You ladies and fellas are really killing it on these races, very speedy!  As for the volunteering at the CDA IM I am jealous, I can only imagine the atmosphere at one of these things, maybe Madison one day.

Marcus

Troy - which marathon are you running?  I only ran 18 miles as the longest run for my first marathon and it worked out fine.  I've done a lot of half marathons like that too and I've never felt undertrained.  In fact, I overtrained for the first 1/2 I ever ran, and I ended up not able to run for two weeks due to having so severely strained my quads.  Not cool.

My speed benefits from more mileage, but more workouts can be a double-edged sword because if I'm doing more workouts, chances are good that I'm sleeping less and more likely to get sick. 

Mmmm...marathons.  I'd love to run one this fall, but can't figure out where the time would come from.  I'm already going crazy trying to fit in all these workouts.  There's an article I'm supposed to be writing and sleeping I'm supposed to be getting, but neither is happening at the moment. 

I may have oversimplified my response to the marathon question.  There is a balance between time for your longest run and distance for your longest run.  If you run your long steady pace at 9:00 per mile you can run 20 miles in 3 hours.  Ideally you would build to the point where you got 3 such runs in toward the end of your plan with long runs peaking at 20 12 20 12 20 taper race or some variation on that 17 18 20 12 20 12 18 20 12 20 taper.  However, if your long steady pace is 10:00 mpm then 3 hours gets you 18 miles.  So your pace will dictate how long your longest run is, but probably not longer than 20 miles unless you are pushing 80+ miles per week. 

My primary concern with minimalist approaches to marathon is if your weekly miles are 25 and your long is 16 and your week looks like 3 3 3 16.  In this casse your weekly miles do not support your long run as the long run is more than half of the weekly miles.  Ideally you want your long run to be in the 1/3 range of your weekly miles.  So the fewer miles you put in, the less your weekly miles can support a longer long run and the slower your pace has to be for your marathon unless you are young and genetically gifted.  The low miles programs were designed for folks with massive run bases who can get by on maintanance running for a marathon, not for folks building from a couch or low base to advance their running.  Again I don't want to be discouraging, I just want you to love your marathon and finish smiling.  I know some folks who undertrained, went 6 to 8 hours and never did another one. 

So in the end, it is up to you as to how you want to train.  The great thing about this sport is that you can try different things and see how your body responds.  Some folks can hit intensity frequently and do great with it, others need to grind slower and longer like me this year due to muscle issues.  In either case, let us know how your training is going and how the race goes.  I am sure you will find it a challenge and amazing no matter which approach you take. 

As I say to my clients, try out your plan, if it works great, if it doesn't shrug tweak it until it works for you. Just take in the information so you know what variables to tweak.  Oh well 7 mile run down, 23 mile bike down, time for a swim.  

Somebody needs to start wearing their helmet on the trainer I see.

Well June is basically gone for me.  Got my last bike ride in this morning for the month.  Finally got a swim in last night.  It had been 8 days since I was in the water, over 2 weeks since I had been in a pool.  It was my best swim ever.  Consistent fast laps.  I even got a compliment from a guy there about how straight I was in the water and how smooth my strokes were.  Maybe I'm finally getting it.  

Last month we did it so I'll start this month.  There should be a little more time spent training but I'm still happy with my numbers for June.  Time on bike is about the same as last month(but mileage is way higher) and swim/run times are way up.

Troy-So your mary is 18 weeks out? Mine too! Which one are you doing?  I am doing the Marine Corps in D.C. on Oct 31.  I am going with a friend who has completed over 13 marys.  I've never done one.  I am torn between two plans, one with the longest run as 20 the other has you go over 26 to get the "psychological advantage of knowing you can do it." I am leaning more towards the 20 long run, and just making sure I put in the milage as I am one of the slower ones Steve refers to.

Samantha-Great info from your CDA. Glad you are sticking with your journey.

Ceril-Slicks! What are they? I had to chuckle when I read your "fall" story! At least you were inside when you fell, not at a stop light for the whole world to observe...twice...

Marcus-Aerospace engineer! Cool. We have Embory Riddle just 5 miles from my home, same stuff going on there as what you are studying, funny.

Dennis-Nice monthly totals.  I will wait until after tonight. I have a swim and bike ride planned, hope it doesn't get rained out as much of my training has been rained out this soggy week.

This is odd I thought: The other day, while I was at the YMCA swimming my lpas with my pennies to count (I have a horrible time keeping track so the pennies help) Steve Lockte (Yes Olympic swimmer Ryan's dad) stopped me asked me to move over a few lanes as his group he trains was coming in.  He asked my why I use the pennies, that he had never seen that.  I thought that odd.  Surely a long time swim instructor as him had seen such a thing. Anyway he suggested I join his tri training masters group... pretty cool huh? Now I have had offers from two traininers for swim instruction, guess it is a sign.  -Karen

Hey Tri- I was one of the lucky 1st year lotto winners to get into ING NY on 11/6.  A few running club members doing it too.

 My first Marathon I did 2 20 milers and one 22 miler.  My second mary training I did 2 22 milers and one 20 miler.  I considered a +26 miler, but never did it.  Everyone is different tho and each type of program has its advantages.  My Wife is doing her first Mary training right now (Chicago October), and she's doing the 2 20 milers and one 22 miler. 

Good luck!

Hey there team!

Troy & Karen, wow, parallel marathons in October.  And Karen, you really do need to stop picking up swim instructors

Dennis, nice June totals!  You really have some nice overall consistency going.  Sounds like the swim layoff didn't hurt either.  Great to hear you got a compliment on your swimming. 

Lisa, think maybe you'll do a 1/2 or two in the fall?

Marcus, are you studying to be a pilot?

Ceril, no clue on the foot thing, but the trainer fall story was pretty funny.  I never considered the possibility of damaging furniture with a bike . 

Samantha, bet you would love a group ride.  I have found myself missing it on my 2 solo rides this week. 

Steve, glad to have your perspective on training more rather than less.  I've done a few 1/2 trained 1/2 baked 1/2 marathons, and would really like to do some where I put more into it.

The group ride I hooked up with last week seems to be focused on 100 mile and 100K ride options for this weekend.  I'm just not up to that, so a 35ish mile solo ride is on tap for Saturday morning.  Spent quite a while out in the heat yesterday, and feeling like a wind-up toy that's losing steam today.  Got a slow (even for me) ride in this morning before taking my FIL to the doctor.  Not sure if I should bag my planned swim this evening due to overall fatigue level.  Still trying to get closure on the job transition, which is not helping my stress level.  So thinking the swim might help mentally more than physically. 

I am going through another lack of motivation slump. Not sure where they come from other than I am not a type A and I like doing nothing. Some days I have not push in my motor. I did no workout yesterday, but I am headed to the pool now, then a bike. I really need to get my biking miles up because I still have not rode 14 miles in one session and I want to before my race. Ugh!

Reading these posts get me re-excited and I want to get up and go - so THANK YOU!

Funny about the swim guy not knowing some tidbits. I never heard of the penny thing. I use my watch and every time I swimm 100yards I hit the split button. Then the number of splits is equal to my yards. It works for the most part.

Someone asked a while back what REI is. I made an assumption that they were everywhere. It is an outdoor store Recreational Equipment Inc. They sell stuff for backpacking, cycling, running, kayaking, etc. They have an amazing return policy - no questions asked no matter how long you have had it.

Anyway, I have to go swim before I decide not to. Have a great day everyone!

I would recommend against the 26 mile run.  You are more likely to injure yourself than get any real beneft out of it for training and the recovery time will be significant, trashing your training for the next week.  To be able to do a 26 mile run and have it be around 1/3 of your weekly miles we are talking building to 78 mile per week base.  That is really high.  My body does not like much over 55 miles per week.  If I were only doing running I know I could inch past that over a few months and watch my intensity, but for a first marathon you don't really want to go over 3 hours for your longest long run and typically not over 20 miles.  Again we are looking at risk versus reward.  The other risk is motivation.  It is really hard to get motivated to go run 20 miles let alone 26 miles.  If you are running a 10 mpm pace for 26 miles that's 4:20, 80 minutes longer than recommended for training purposes.  You would be better off doing a 20 in the morning and a 6 in the evening for safety purposes. 

As far as pedalling there was alink to the perfect pedal stroke earlier.  When you use clipless (clipped in pedals) the pin is under the ball of your foot.  When you are out on your mountian bike, no clips, the pin is under the arche of your foot.  Numbness in your legs, feet is usually a fit problem.  You are putting pressure on a nerve up in your seat area that is radiating down your foot and leg.  So getting your fit looked at is a good idea.  Other than that get up out of the saddle and stretch your legs and let some fresh blood into your feet about every 15 to 30 min to help.  Also purposefully uncleanch your feet from time to time during your ride to relax them. 

I have tiles along the side of my pool at home.  I use my kid's toy boat to mark 100 yards and it is 2000 yards to cover all of the tiles.  Then I put a fish in the boat to mark my second set of 2000 yards and then a crab when I go for round 3. 

There is no suckage in triathlon.  The last person to finish the race still is a triathlete.  The person who does not finish the race is still better off than the person who never started training.  When the body experiences fatigue it often makes us feel like not working out.  I am there this week, the rest week didn't make me very well rested.  You just let the feelings pass through you, get going and you feel better once you are out there.  Being slower just leaves years of PR's in front of you.  If you were doing 22 mph on the bike... not so much room for improvement 8).  I have pleanty of room myself, just starting to enjoy gains.. after years.  One fix is to just swim or just run or just bike, no watch, no speedometer, no HR monitor, just go have fun, bring a camara take pictures.

Fun marathons.  I know someone else who is also running Marine Corps this year.  If I did one, it would be the Rock 'n' Roll Denver, but as I said, I don't see where the time would come from.  I am considering a trail 1/2 in Aspen (or the 1/2 that's part of the RnR Denver if a few friends are doing it).  I'm sure I'll find something.  :D  I try to be half-marathon ready at all times so that if I want to do one on the spur of the moment I can.  I did that a couple of years ago and managed to score my fastest-ever 1/2 time that way, though it should be noted it was a course with 2000 feet of vertical descent.   

June totals:

If I'd known I was so close to 100 miles this month, I probably would have fit in another 3 someplace.  Seeing as I don't know where that someplace is and I already ran 6 today, with 3x1600 intervals at an 8:22 pace, I'll call it good.  I've run more than 500 miles for the year, and think I might hit 1000 if everything cooperates.

I am reluctant to put this out there, but here are my June numbers:

Muscles holding together but not 100 percent.  Need sleep.... Keep it going out there, anything is better than nothing.  Always time to clean up the training as you get into a routine.  Progress will come. 

Gosh, it seems like many of us are in the dull-drums this week... I've hardly done squat this week as it has rained almost every day here for hours, with thunder storms! Blah! It is suppose to be another rainy day, today but clear up by the holiday weekend. So for all of us in this group who have just been...well...blah...let's resolve to enjoy the weekend, pick up and be focused come next week! We can do it!

I don't want to put my totals out, since I did two races this month, my long bike and long run were non existant for two weekends, hence my very low milages. But I will own up, put it out there, dust off my running and biking shoes and keep going.

Wow, pretty sad to look at it.

Steve, I like it...just swim, bike and run for FUN w/ no watch, because it IS fun.  And you should definitely post your month.  Those kinds of volumes are inspirational and add a needed perspective at least for me.  I am surrounded in real life by folks who are mostly on the couch, and it's pretty easy for me to slip into coasting a bit too much. 

Lisa, that Aspen trail 1/2 sounds really nice.  1K running for the year looks totally within reach for you!  Your monthly totals are awesome as well.

Ceril, that fortune cookie would make a great tag line.  Woohooo you paid the fees and are fundraising....yep, you're all in! My fav thought when I'm frustrated with my lack of speed is "I am still faster than my couch".  I think that came from John Bingham.  I also read a book called "Slow Fat Triathlete" that I found to be oddly inspirational.  Not saying you're slow and fat, but just the idea of getting started on this tri thing with the body you have was inspirational to me + it was FUNNY! Anyway, your fortune cookie reminded me of those things. 

Samantha, I'm not really Type A either.  I love getting outside and doing stuff, but pushing the pace on any of it is really hard for me.    

Looking at my June totals was kind of depressing at first.  No, not becasue I'm comparing to Steve, but because they were substantially below May.  But considering I was sick for a week+, and it also included vacation, it is what it is and gives me something to improve on for July.

Also 11 hours of sports which included snorkeling, walking, and yard working.

Here are my totals for June.  My numbers are totally embarrassing.  Have to remind myself that I have been doing P90X so I have not been swimming as much. 

June's totals:

Bike:9h 11m 49s  - 151.14 Mi

Run:4h 47m 25s  - 38.59 Mi

Swim: 06m 28s - 250 yds

Strength:22h 47m

From looking at this you can tell why my swim times are so bad.  I have to work on it in order to get better. 

The biggest risk is that someone becomes so frustrated that they give up.  It is soo easy to just fall back into not working out.  If you are doing anything, even if it is just 3 workouts a week, that is better than before you started.  Being physically tired impacts your mental attitude towards worktouts.  There is a mind body connection.  It hits pretty hard in IM training.  The cure is ... take a day off if you need to, if you don't need to get out there and just get started, if you are social and live near folks that train (and not just cows that run from you) then get together with them, sign up for a race, buy a new pair of running shorts, sign up for a masters swim class... just anything that will motivate you. 

A good way on BT to stay motivated is to join the monthy challenge groups.  Does anyone not know about those?

Speed comes slowly, build that base, get that consistency in there and then after 6 months or so if the vollume is good you can throw in some speed work.  Mile repeats at 5k pace are sooo much fun. 

Happy 4th everyone! 

Steve, you note about challenges really challenged me.  So here are my goals for July. 

Here are my goals for July.
Bike 12 h 34 m - 220 miles
Run - 12 h 28 m - 98 miles
Swim - 4 hr 28 m - 11500 yds
Strength - 25 hrs 25 m

I know my swim goal is really, really aggressive.  But I am going to try really hard to make it happen. 

Hrm I guy I know from BT is planning on doing this race:

The Ultraman Canada event started in Canada in 1993, following the format of the original Ultraman established in Kona, Hawaii in 1983. The race course covers part of the Okanagan/Similkameen regions of British Columbia.

Ultraman Distance » Swim 10 km » Bike 420.6 km » Run 84.3 km

SATURDAY – Stage 1 – 10.0 km (6.2 mile) point to point swim starting in Penticton and finishing in Okanagan Falls, followed by 144.8 km (90.0 mile) bike ride, beginning in Okanagan Falls over the Richter Pass returning to Okanagan Falls.

SUNDAY - Stage 2 – 275.8 km (171.4 mile) bike ride, beginning in Penticton and ending in Princeton.

MONDAY – Stage 3 – 84.3 km (52.4 mile) double-marathon run from Princeton to Summerland.

TIME LIMITS - Swim (Stage 1) must be completed in 6 hours plus bike in 12 hours total, bike (Stage 2) in 12 hours, run (Stage 3) in 12 hours.

I told my wife that the race looked interesting and she got a concerned look on her face.  3 Back to back 12 hour  days of racing. Clearly not on my radar for the next several years but hrmm.  That would take one thick base for sure.  Your long swims would be 4-5 miles on a regular basis with 30 mile long runs and 150 mile long bike rides.  You would probably have to alternate longs so long swim one week, long bike next, long run following week and then recovery week just to survive the training. 

There is also a tripple IM that a BTer did.   Yes 13,200 yard ish swim, 339 mile bike, 78 mile run.  I don't know if they break it up by day or if you just crank it out though.  I think it is a similar setup though of having Friday through Sunday night to complete it.  So if anyone gets bored with the short stuff, you can work on building a 10 year base for the really long stuff 8). 

If it's the Virginia Triple Iron, it is straight through.  You start the triple on Friday morning and must be done by Sunday night.  The double starts Saturday morning and must finish by Sunday night.  You are allowed to kayak the swim in this one to help accommodate crappy swimmers.