Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! (Page 38)

Today is a swim then 1:50 run.  After yesterday's effort, it will definitely be an EASY run . . .

Happy Friday, everyone!

I also have HR questions - my HR on the trainer has been WAY low the past couple of days. The trainer I'm having lots of difficulty getting anywhere past Z2. Effort feels right, though. I can't understand why bc my running HR is mostly fine. Maybe slightly off, but not MAJORLY off, the way the trainer is. I have a long ride outdoors tomorrow so I will see if I'm just having a trainer issue. Maybe I'm just being lazy? Mind over matter?

Also - in case you did not see - ITU racing is moving from San Diego to Chicago in 2014 and 2015! Very excited to have something like this in my backyard. ANd in 2015 will probably serve as a race for Olympic qualifiers.

Are you running outside with humidity (which does not affect drainer rides)?  I have found that it raises my hr a good bunch of beats at same effort vs the days when I am stuck on the dreadmill.  Coach Mike Ricci explained to me that a lower hr (not hitting goals) can actually be suppressed from fatigue (that is one reason why i switched to virtual power on TR vs HR training on TR).

Agree this is great input.  Questions, though (of course): 

How do you set your HR targets in the first instance?

How have you changed them based on race experience?

I'm pretty comfortable where my HR should be in a sprint tri, 5k, 10k, and HM - but a HIM just feels like a whole different kettle of fish.  Any way to use open race (HM) HR as a base guide?

Thanks!

Matt

My standard is on the tri bike, so I only have < a month on it.  That said, on my 808 rear I have an 11/28, have done some hilly rides and haven't needed a lower gear or higher (occassionally got into highest, but not for long - that's fast enough for me downhill).  I have an 11/25 that I used on the disc in my race last weekend and was in top gear a few times, but stayed in the big ring on all but the end of a couple hills - those weren't super steep at all, but I had a lot of gears left.  Not sure what a really steep hill would be like... 

On my mid-compact, I also run an 11/28 and have only gotten into the lowest gear on a couple real biters of hills where just about everyone I know has to stand to keep going.  That's about the only time I want a granny gear, but I haven't ridden those couple spikey hills on the tri bike. 

As for preferred cadence, I ride at ~90 and race/TT typically at 93.  I've been playing with going along at low 80's to see if I get a better power/HR/cadence ratio, but when I hit the pain cave in a race (or long Strava segment!) I usually revert to the higher cadence - hills or flats, it's just where my legs go when I'm drooling on my Garmin...

Appreciate any help!  Still getting my arms around the finer points here, for sure.

Matt

wrt cadence, I "learned" that the low 90's is the place to be on returning to biking last year (wasn't the thinking 20 years ago, so much), and just got comfortable with that as the target over the last year and so kind of "go there" when I'm not thinking too much.

Your comments about the pro's practice got me thinking about what the low-mid80's experiments I've been doing have been.  Basically, I feel like I can actually hold a slightly better W/HR at that range than the low 90's (despite "spinning up" when I'm really hammering - which is NOT what you do for a looooong ride).  What I've tried a couple times now is to ride at mid-80's then spin up to the low 90's only at the end of the ride if I'm going to run off the bike.  This seems to have worked well in these tests, but it's limited.

Basically was trying to both loosen up a bit and get to my running cadence the last mile or so of the bike (I'm around 96-97 in a 5k, 91-93 in a HM except the kick at the end, 90 for LSD), but the slightly lower cadence felt more efficient, if sometimes a bit painful...

Do others go from lower to higher cadence before finishing the bike leg of a tri?

Matt

This could make for an interesting first HIM for me at Timberman, then, as I'll be winging it!  If I go at my HM open HR, I expect I'll blow up, but I also don't want to undershoot too much.  I suppose I'll start by shooting for ~10bpm below my open race target and then let it drift up during the race.  If I feel reeeeeaaaallllly good, I'll probably try to hammer the last 5k - otherwise I'll just hope to still be running it, rather than walking!

As for the bike, my only plan is to go easy the first 11.5 miles until I'm past the hill, and then get into a faster groove.  Not sure what HR I'll shoot for, but likely a few beats below threshold...

Sound reasonable?

RR issue fixed (I think) and now up.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=491421 

Enjoy, if so inclined!

Matt

Hey all just dropping in, some of you know me.

I hit a big milestone Wednesday.  The route I rode was identical to a ride I did exactly 1 year ago, before my injury, and I beat my time on the key segments.  Oh and I didn't realize I was riding the same thing until I checked on Strava afterward.

Recovery is mostly done, time to improve!

Today is 30' bike, accelerating to race (HIM) effort for last 10', then T2 to an interval run (6x9' at Z3, 2x5' @ Z4) and endurance finish of 30'-60' @ Z2.  Then about 2,500 swim this afternoon (intervals @faster than race, then race pace, etc.).  Probably going to do via fartlek in Walden rather than gulping chlorine.  

Tomorrow is ~2+ hours on the bike (intervals at either 12'@Z4 or 20'@Z3 a few times over - depends on if I use the HIM or Oly plan - then 30-60' Z2 riding around), followed by ~2 mile run off the bike.  I'll sleep well if I get all that done!

I'm struggling with quite how to manage my training blocks.  Had been targeting an Oly on July 21, but now that I'm signed up for Timberman, I think I'm going to modify my plan to look more like the HIM program than the Oly specific (and just work a bit more intensity than the HIM calls for and a bit more distance than the Oly does).  I'll have a month after the Oly to do a 2 week HIM build, one week HIM peak and one week taper.  Any thoughts?

Have at it y'all, and good training to you (and good racing to anyone toeing the line)!

Matt

Even having just "e-met" you, I'm glad for you that the injury is behind you.  Recovering is a pain (literally and figuratively!).

It's way more fun to improve.    Enjoy!

Matt

Thanks.  I've been lurking here because I have the Lake Stevens 70.3 coming up mid July.

Re: Fred -- my coach wants me riding 50 today and 80 tomorrow.  Zoiks.

Just finished a bike/run brick. 73 miles on the bike, although 10 of those are just biking to and from our meeting place. But that is the farthest I have ever gone in one day! Short run after - just three loops around this course, which is less than 20 min. I don't feel bad - probably bc my legs are glad to be back on flat land again! I'm still having the HR issues. Bike was way low - Z1 again. And the run after most likely low, but I wouldn't call it "way" low, just low. Not sure what's going on w/that. Long run tomorrow and then recovery week. I'm hoping the recovery week will straighten out these HR issues.

Mark, glad the injury is behind you!