Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Master

2021

Alpharetta, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Yeah, I read those highlights. Very nice!

I hope everyone is working those flat training sessions. I find those harder than riding hills.

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Champion

34263

Chicago

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Haha I can't believe you busted out that photo! From the Trail Marathon a couple months ago.

Yeah this race seems like it's going to be fun. I hear the swim is super fast. Thank the gods!

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Expert

749

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Alright, better late to the party than not at all right?! Getting registered this week! My husband did the full distance last year we had a blast jockstrapping so this year is my turn I guess! Hoping for warm weather!!!

Now I have to find somewher flat to train! Not easy in the Shenendoah Valley!!

Edited by katimomma 2009-07-20 9:23 AM

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Veteran

245

Nevada City with my BABY!

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

HI Guys,

I am looking to go check out the race site the first weekend of Aug...anyone up for a field trip? I would like to ride part of the bike course and maybe part of the run.

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Master

2436

Apex, north carolina

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

My husband and I are doing B2B as a 2 man relay, I am swimming and running and he is doing the bike. So here is my dumb newby question. During the transitions, do we bypass the changing tents and go straight to the bike racks to hand off the timing chip to each other? I"ve seen how the relay teams work at HIM but never for a full. Thanks for any info and hope to meet all of you at the race.

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Master

1741

Chapel Hill, NC

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Tracy,

Your husband has the better part of that deal, lol! I have no idea about the answer to your question, tho, sorry! Happy training!

tahrens - 2009-07-20 2:42 PM

My husband and I are doing B2B as a 2 man relay, I am swimming and running and he is doing the bike. So here is my dumb newby question. During the transitions, do we bypass the changing tents and go straight to the bike racks to hand off the timing chip to each other? I"ve seen how the relay teams work at HIM but never for a full. Thanks for any info and hope to meet all of you at the race.

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Expert

1706

NoVA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

For those of you that did the race last year (or are familiar with the course)---what's the run like?? I know it's two loop course for the full--just wondering about bridge crossings/how flat it is?? Thanks.

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Champion

34263

Chicago

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Sweetcorn - 2009-07-20 9:53 AM

HI Guys,

I am looking to go check out the race site the first weekend of Aug...anyone up for a field trip? I would like to ride part of the bike course and maybe part of the run.

Oooh keep us informed. I'm not going to be able to make it out there at all before the race. I hear it's completely flat, but that's what people said about the CapTex Tri and it was anything but flat by my standards. Thanks!!!

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Master

2021

Alpharetta, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Jamesehatcher did the full last year, and has a good RR. It is worth a read.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

I have heard from numerous people that the course is mainly flat. The run is flat with the exceptions of the bridge crossings.

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Expert

749

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

That is what they did last year, the relay swim team members ran straight to the bikes, bypassing the changing tent.

The bike is flat and BORING according to my husband, but then again we live in the mountains so that is what we are used to . He really enjoyed the run course, said the scenery was very nice. Apparently we run around a lake that is very nice. All I know is that it will be DARK out there!

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Regular

70

Wilmington

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

I did the full last year, doing the half this year, and to say that the bike is flat is an understatement. I got in a comfortable gear leaving Wrightsville Beach and did not shift until the 421 bridge right before the USS NC. I live here in Wilmington and train out their regularly, but my friends that live in the mountains do have some issues coming down here and just hammering a constant cadence in one gear for hours and hours when they come down here.

My garmin was acting screwy on race day, but here are two links to motion based profiles for the bike and the run, not mine, for those interested.

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7084823
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7084822

I always think that the bridges hurt, coming from this flatlander, and their is a short, half a block maybe, long hill at ~12% as you turn off of water street up to front street that I was cursing on the second lap of the run.

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Master

1741

Chapel Hill, NC

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

I am hoping to get out there in September/October and ride the course a couple times. I am used to hills (where you get a rest on the downs). So an all flat course actually concerns me! Also, there is wind. I watched White Lake Half this year, and let me tell you, the bikers coming off that course did not look like that had it easier than the Duke 1/2 course!

markfw - 2009-07-21 11:24 AM

I did the full last year, doing the half this year, and to say that the bike is flat is an understatement. I got in a comfortable gear leaving Wrightsville Beach and did not shift until the 421 bridge right before the USS NC. I live here in Wilmington and train out their regularly, but my friends that live in the mountains do have some issues coming down here and just hammering a constant cadence in one gear for hours and hours when they come down here.

My garmin was acting screwy on race day, but here are two links to motion based profiles for the bike and the run, not mine, for those interested.

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7084823
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7084822

I always think that the bridges hurt, coming from this flatlander, and their is a short, half a block maybe, long hill at ~12% as you turn off of water street up to front street that I was cursing on the second lap of the run.

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Elite

2552

Evans, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

I'm all for flat. Augusta Half is on the training schedule so we are hitting some (albeit small) hills in the Augusta GA area. I took a look at the race report as well. Thanks for the link.

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Master

2021

Alpharetta, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

keyone - 2009-07-21 12:20 PM
I am used to hills (where you get a rest on the downs). So an all flat course actually concerns me! Also, there is wind.

Agreed

I find hills easier to ride, and carry a faster avg on them. Flat courses force you to keep a high cadence the entire time. No slacking off, as you can on a decent.

That is also why most of my long rides have been at the SCT which is flat, and long steady climbs. I gotta learn how to ride the flats.

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Champion

34263

Chicago

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Coldfire - 2009-07-22 6:53 AM

keyone - 2009-07-21 12:20 PM
I am used to hills (where you get a rest on the downs). So an all flat course actually concerns me! Also, there is wind.

Agreed

I find hills easier to ride, and carry a faster avg on them. Flat courses force you to keep a high cadence the entire time. No slacking off, as you can on a decent.

That is also why most of my long rides have been at the SCT which is flat, and long steady climbs. I gotta learn how to ride the flats.

But aren't you supposed to `spin the ups, hammer the downs' as my pro-cyclist neighbor taught me?

I'd much prefer the flats. I can get into a high cadence and maintain my mph without much increasing heartrate. But I'm from Chicago where we call curbs `hills' ...

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Master

1741

Chapel Hill, NC

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

mr2tony - 2009-07-22 9:49 AM

Coldfire - 2009-07-22 6:53 AM

keyone - 2009-07-21 12:20 PM
I am used to hills (where you get a rest on the downs). So an all flat course actually concerns me! Also, there is wind.

Agreed

I find hills easier to ride, and carry a faster avg on them. Flat courses force you to keep a high cadence the entire time. No slacking off, as you can on a decent.

That is also why most of my long rides have been at the SCT which is flat, and long steady climbs. I gotta learn how to ride the flats.

But aren't you supposed to `spin the ups, hammer the downs' as my pro-cyclist neighbor taught me?

I'd much prefer the flats. I can get into a high cadence and maintain my mph without much increasing heartrate. But I'm from Chicago where we call curbs `hills' ...

Hard to argue with a pro cyclist. And, I used to do that: hard down, and easy up. But my mentor, who won the Halfmax National Championship in 2007 for his age group, told me to do the opposite. Work hard up, rest on the downs. The reason he gave was that when you are hammering down, each additional wattage of power is met with exponential increase in wind resistance. So it is wasted energy. But when you are working hard up, you are not going that fast, so the wind resistance does not matter so much. (Wind resistance does not make a difference under 10 mph). This conversation came after I had toasted myself chasing a competitor at Over the Mountain last year (Speedracer girl). I was hammering the downs, and just barely gaining on her. She was in a tight aero tuck and coasting! Then she would pull away from me on each climb. Because she had rested on the downs, she had more energy for the ups. Speedracer girl taught me alot that day. My bike splits got better after making this shift in my hill strategy.

PS: I hope Aquaphor chick doesn't read this post

Edited by keyone 2009-07-22 9:02 AM

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Member

52

Martinez GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Hey Everyone - so I'm new to this site - trying to learn it lol. . .I'm currently training for the Augusta 70.3

and had a goal set to do my first full Iron man next year (2010) but a friend of mine thinks I should do the beach to battle ship this year. I'm a little unsure though lol. . .I do have the distances down - I've ran 2 marathons (Oct 08 and Feb 09) and have done one century ride (June 09) my running mileage is at 10 miles right now - biking since my century I'm back up to 70 miles maintaining an average speed of about 17mph. I'm not a strong swimmer though and have never swam in the ocean and I think that is what has me hesitant on doing it this year.

Brittany

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Master

1741

Chapel Hill, NC

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Sporty_Girl585 - 2009-07-22 10:13 AM

Hey Everyone - so I'm new to this site - trying to learn it lol. . .I'm currently training for the Augusta 70.3

and had a goal set to do my first full Iron man next year (2010) but a friend of mine thinks I should do the beach to battle ship this year. I'm a little unsure though lol. . .I do have the distances down - I've ran 2 marathons (Oct 08 and Feb 09) and have done one century ride (June 09) my running mileage is at 10 miles right now - biking since my century I'm back up to 70 miles maintaining an average speed of about 17mph. I'm not a strong swimmer though and have never swam in the ocean and I think that is what has me hesitant on doing it this year.

Brittany

Welcome to the site - it's a great place to learn and make friends! My advice: don't consider a full iron distance tri until you finish the bike leg of a half iron feeling as if you want to do the bike course again. For me that didn't happen until my third half ironman, fourth year of training. Don't be in a hurry - enjoy the ride!

Edited by keyone 2009-07-22 9:16 AM

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Champion

34263

Chicago

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

keyone - 2009-07-22 8:59 AM

mr2tony - 2009-07-22 9:49 AM

Coldfire - 2009-07-22 6:53 AM

keyone - 2009-07-21 12:20 PM
I am used to hills (where you get a rest on the downs). So an all flat course actually concerns me! Also, there is wind.

Agreed

I find hills easier to ride, and carry a faster avg on them. Flat courses force you to keep a high cadence the entire time. No slacking off, as you can on a decent.

That is also why most of my long rides have been at the SCT which is flat, and long steady climbs. I gotta learn how to ride the flats.

But aren't you supposed to `spin the ups, hammer the downs' as my pro-cyclist neighbor taught me?

I'd much prefer the flats. I can get into a high cadence and maintain my mph without much increasing heartrate. But I'm from Chicago where we call curbs `hills' ...

Hard to argue with a pro cyclist. And, I used to do that: hard down, and easy up. But my mentor, who won the Halfmax National Championship in 2007 for his age group, told me to do the opposite. Work hard up, rest on the downs. The reason he gave was that when you are hammering down, each additional wattage of power is met with exponential increase in wind resistance. So it is wasted energy. But when you are working hard up, you are not going that fast, so the wind resistance does not matter so much. (Wind resistance does not make a difference under 10 mph). This conversation came after I had toasted myself chasing a competitor at Over the Mountain last year (Speedracer girl). I was hammering the downs, and just barely gaining on her. She was in a tight aero tuck and coasting! Then she would pull away from me on each climb. Because she had rested on the downs, she had more energy for the ups. Speedracer girl taught me alot that day. My bike splits got better after making this shift in my hill strategy.

PS: I hope Aquaphor chick doesn't read this post

I wonder if maybe it has something to do with the cyclist/triathlete divergence. Or if it's just preference. I've always based my riding in tris on `spin ups/hammer downs.' I think I'll do some training rides in the same place on several different days, trying each method, and then average the times to see which one is faster. I'm glad you posted this -- it's possible I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

I do know at Horribly Hilly Hundreds this year I did it the way he taught me and caught and passed quite a few people on the downs, and by the time they caught me I was at the top of the next hill and they were out of engine and I'd take off downhill again. Of course some of the faster riders smoked me going up and downhill.

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Master

1741

Chapel Hill, NC

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

mr2tony - 2009-07-22 5:08 PM

keyone - 2009-07-22 8:59 AM

mr2tony - 2009-07-22 9:49 AM

Coldfire - 2009-07-22 6:53 AM

keyone - 2009-07-21 12:20 PM
I am used to hills (where you get a rest on the downs). So an all flat course actually concerns me! Also, there is wind.

Agreed

I find hills easier to ride, and carry a faster avg on them. Flat courses force you to keep a high cadence the entire time. No slacking off, as you can on a decent.

That is also why most of my long rides have been at the SCT which is flat, and long steady climbs. I gotta learn how to ride the flats.

But aren't you supposed to `spin the ups, hammer the downs' as my pro-cyclist neighbor taught me?

I'd much prefer the flats. I can get into a high cadence and maintain my mph without much increasing heartrate. But I'm from Chicago where we call curbs `hills' ...

Hard to argue with a pro cyclist. And, I used to do that: hard down, and easy up. But my mentor, who won the Halfmax National Championship in 2007 for his age group, told me to do the opposite. Work hard up, rest on the downs. The reason he gave was that when you are hammering down, each additional wattage of power is met with exponential increase in wind resistance. So it is wasted energy. But when you are working hard up, you are not going that fast, so the wind resistance does not matter so much. (Wind resistance does not make a difference under 10 mph). This conversation came after I had toasted myself chasing a competitor at Over the Mountain last year (Speedracer girl). I was hammering the downs, and just barely gaining on her. She was in a tight aero tuck and coasting! Then she would pull away from me on each climb. Because she had rested on the downs, she had more energy for the ups. Speedracer girl taught me alot that day. My bike splits got better after making this shift in my hill strategy.

PS: I hope Aquaphor chick doesn't read this post

I wonder if maybe it has something to do with the cyclist/triathlete divergence. Or if it's just preference. I've always based my riding in tris on `spin ups/hammer downs.' I think I'll do some training rides in the same place on several different days, trying each method, and then average the times to see which one is faster. I'm glad you posted this -- it's possible I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

I do know at Horribly Hilly Hundreds this year I did it the way he taught me and caught and passed quite a few people on the downs, and by the time they caught me I was at the top of the next hill and they were out of engine and I'd take off downhill again. Of course some of the faster riders smoked me going up and downhill.

I'd be curious to know your result!

I was thinking about this more and thought I should qualify what I mean. I do try to keep a good high cadence all the time. And, I do shift to a lower gear going up the hills. But I work the hills, letting my HR go up to Zone 3 or lower part of Zone 4. I don't kill myself going up the hills! If it's a steep or long enough descent, I will tuck and coast. If it's just rollers, I will still keep spinning down, but just not work as hard, so as to give my legs a little bit of a rest. I just go by 'feel' whether to tuck and coast or keep spinning down.

If I've worked it up a really long or tough hill, then I will shake my legs out like they do in TdF. I learn alot from watching those guys. BTW, those guys are pushing their HR and power up really high on those climbs. I like it when they show the Polar HR reports!

One more thought - when I first made this change to work up the hills harder, my hips were really sore after my rides. This lasted about a month.

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Elite

3658

Roswell, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

I think you have to define hills before you discuss the best way to manage them. Around Atlanta we get a lot of roller hills and I like to push the down hills and build up some speed for the uphill and then spin the last 1/4 of the hill and repeat. When I'm riding hills that I have to climb (long steady climbs) I like to spin to the top with a pretty good effort. Maintain the pressure across the top of the hill and when I get above 20 and start the descent I will get comfy and soft pedal up to 30+ mph. I end up recovering on the downhills. The soft pedaling is also good to help keep the legs from locking up after the hard workout up the hill. I should add that this is my philosophy on 50-100 mile rides. If we are talking sprints or oly's, then I say hammer the hills, the descents, the flats, turn arounds, etc.

I'm in Florida this week on vacation and I have been able to do some flat windy rides to get ready for B2B. IMHO the flats are all about high cadence and just pumping away. It's actually pretty easy. The problem is the %#*&^% wind. You have to stay in aero the entire time it is coming at you or from the side. Sit up and open your gu chomps or to stretch your back and you will quickly lose 2 mph. The winds have been in the 10-20 mph range which I think is pretty normal for the coast. I think for B2B I'm going to focus on cadence and HR to make sure I'm riding correctly.

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Master

2021

Alpharetta, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

mr2tony - 2009-07-22 9:49 AM
But aren't you supposed to `spin the ups, hammer the downs' as my pro-cyclist neighbor taught me?

To answer your question, I generally hammer the ups, over the top, then the down until I hit 30+. From there I will do Doug's "soft pedal" if the hill is not long, or tuck/aero for longer hills. I feel like once I get above 30 it is waisted energy trying to go faster vs just lettting aero take over.

Just a thought, which one (up or down) takes more time? IMHO why not put more energy into the one that takes longer to try and decrease it? All-in-all you are going to decend roughly at the same speed (unless you coast from the very top), or close to it. Thus, the majority of the time spent below your overall avg is on the up side. Speed up the "up side" and increase your overall avg. Well, that is how I see it.

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Champion

34263

Chicago

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

Coldfire - 2009-07-23 9:15 AM

mr2tony - 2009-07-22 9:49 AM
But aren't you supposed to `spin the ups, hammer the downs' as my pro-cyclist neighbor taught me?

To answer your question, I generally hammer the ups, over the top, then the down until I hit 30+. From there I will do Doug's "soft pedal" if the hill is not long, or tuck/aero for longer hills. I feel like once I get above 30 it is waisted energy trying to go faster vs just lettting aero take over.

Just a thought, which one (up or down) takes more time? IMHO why not put more energy into the one that takes longer to try and decrease it? All-in-all you are going to decend roughly at the same speed (unless you coast from the very top), or close to it. Thus, the majority of the time spent below your overall avg is on the up side. Speed up the "up side" and increase your overall avg. Well, that is how I see it.

OK I just talked to my neighbor on the phone. His rationale was ... you're gains by hammering the ups will not be as great as if you pedal the downs -- he did say that he doesn't ``hammer'' the downs, just puts it in top gear and pedals, as Doug said. He said it's not necessary to go all out to gain a lot of speed on the downs, but it is to make up a couple miles an hour for a few minutes on the ups. Therefore you're going to burn yourself out hammering the ups while not getting the gains you do pedaling on the downs. He also mentioned that if you get enough speed on the downs you can spin and save energy most of the next up if you're on rollers. He does a lot of mountain passes and said on those, when he's going to reach max speed anyway he will shake out the legs and coast the downs after climbing several thousand feet.

Both make sense to me. I guess it's all about personal preference.

Really this conversation is useless in this thread because B2B is flat! I hope.

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Master

2021

Alpharetta, GA

Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

mr2tony - 2009-07-23 11:43 AM
OK I just talked to my neighbor on the phone. His rationale was ... you're gains by hammering the ups will not be as great as if you pedal the downs -- he did say that he doesn't ``hammer'' the downs, just puts it in top gear and pedals, as Doug said. He said it's not necessary to go all out to gain a lot of speed on the downs, but it is to make up a couple miles an hour for a few minutes on the ups. Therefore you're going to burn yourself out hammering the ups while not getting the gains you do pedaling on the downs. He also mentioned that if you get enough speed on the downs you can spin and save energy most of the next up if you're on rollers. He does a lot of mountain passes and said on those, when he's going to reach max speed anyway he will shake out the legs and coast the downs after climbing several thousand feet.

Both make sense to me. I guess it's all about personal preference.

Really this conversation is useless in this thread because B2B is flat! I hope.

Good point.

Your last line is nail on the head, all of this is a moot point when discussing B2B.

Edited by Coldfire 2009-07-24 6:41 AM

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Subject: RE: Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread

At first I thought my first IM would be IMFL, but after reading about B2B I have decided that it is my choice. I am excited to hear what people have to say about the changes that it sounds like they have made this year and how things went.

Good luck to everyone. I can't wait for 2010.

Beach 2 Battleship : Official Thread (Page 4)

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