Sexual abuse charges Rock Penn State University (Page 4)

Well, read the grand jury report and you will have a much better idea of what he was made aware off and what he decided to do.  If you want to hold to the idea that he followed up the serious accusation after that but that no one listened to him for 8 years then my friend you are in denial.

My opinion is not based in assumptions, is based on the facts that have been revealed so far and the grand jury report.

We certainly know that they didn’t do enough, or is it more plausible that the authorities didn’t do anything for 8 years while the rampant abused continued?

If those allegations came out against anyone, even someone I personally knew my opinion would be the same.  Nowhere in my statements in this thread have I stated that they are legally guilty, for that they deserve their day in court.  But morally, no one can acquit them of their inaction to act.

she shouldn't have verbalized her personal moral judgement... very unprofessional

what he said

the grand jury report has to do with one thing... sandusky's actions and so it only mentions Paterno's and others actions as they relate to Sandusky's

you can't assume that what is in the GJR is the extent of their collective actions

I'll wait for that Grand Jury to convene and then make my judgement on paterno and the others

Understood.  However, if you don't mind, do you think Penn State should do the same?

I understand your discomfort with that assumption...I, though, have no trouble with that assumption, for two reasons.

1) the facts are not thin...they're supported by a 3 years of investigation, a gran jury report, countless corroborating witnesses, and continued emerging, credible witnesses (today, two janitors who saw something AND a 9th alleged victim came forward), claims against the man that were never prosecuted in 1998. That's enough for me.   

2) It would have to be an exceptional argument to convince me that any reaction to the situation other than breaking up the activity when they saw it (McCreary did not) OR reporting it to the police immediatley (none of the chain from McCreary on up did) is the appropriate response. The kid was at risk, immediate, physical risk.

Bottom line: 4 adults trusted with the development of young men and women at a prestigious, top-notch university did not display any accountability for ensuring that hideous things weren't happening in their locker room, on their campus.  All four are morally guilty.

ETA: I have no idea how any of them actually could sleep after knowing about it, and knowing that nothing ever came of it. Most people I know wouldn't rest until there was some finite action.

again, you're talking about a coach with legendary stature... there's only a few of them and I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt

if you're talking about a guy that's been there 10, 12 15 years I'd be a bit more hasty

gotta head out of work... take care...

good conversation!

If the facts are as reported: that is, that a person within the Penn State Football program caught Sandosky in the shower performing a sex act on a child, I'm sorry but there is only one obvious course of action, and that course of action is to personally contact police.  Every person, and I mean every person, that had knolwedge of this event and didn't contact police, is morally culpable.

Just my personal opinion.  But seeing the act and not going to the police is horrific.  Being told of the act by the witness and not going to the police is horrific, being told by the witnesses supervisor that they were told of the act and not going to police is horrific.

The reality, the way it is being reported now, the Penn State's inaction in not contacting police, delayed the investigation into this monster, and may have lead to him having additional time and opportunity to perp on additional kids.

On a side note at some point it appears that at some level Penn State people knew, or suspected the allegations were true (The banned Sandosky from coming on campus with kids) and they covered it up.  And yet nothing is going to happen to the program.  But some kid sells his jersey to a booster and the program gets whacked by the NCAA.  Shouldn't institutional control also cover the coaches and staff, not just the athletes?

This isn't taling about having a 5-7 season, this isn't talking about not making a bowl game for 3 years in a row, this isn't talking about recruiting violations, all of which you could argue that a "legendary coach" should get the benefit of the doubt.

This is talking about a Football Program and a University turning a blind eye to one of their staff members committing horrific felonies of child sexual abuse on their property, under their watch.  When, according to reports one staffer caught Sandosky actually engaged in a sex act.

No benefit of the doubt should be given.  Especially, because it now seems that after the witnessed event Sandosky perped on other children. 

How those that knew of what was going on can be "given" anything but the boot is beyond me.  There are more important things than football, even in Penn.

Yes, as someone who has found evidence of probable child abuse that absolutely would be my next question.  This is not based on a moral construct of myself that I've built up in my own mind, it's based on my experience. I have insight into the mind of an adult in this situation. I experienced something similar to Paterno in that I became aware of the possible sexual abuse of a child.  The drive to see that the situation was dealt with and the child(ren) were safe was intense. As I wrote earlier it was a moral imperative. It never entered my mind to do anything but notify the authorities. Legal authorities.  An assurance from a non-legal authority that it had been "taken care of" would never have sufficed. 

I don't believe my reaction in the situation would be considered at all unusual. Quite the opposite.

Anyone who would so easily abdicate their responsibility to act, and act decisively, in a situation like that is IMO a moral degenerate. Perhaps they would be acting within the bounds of the law, but that would hardly make it right.

Perhaps he did do more, or attempted to. The facts as reported so far and the report from the grand jury indicate otherwise, however we are still in the "media storm" period of these revelations.   As I wrote before, if he did do more or sincerely tried to, I hope that is as widely reported as anything else about this.

Penn State Proud. Hurt. Ashamed. Effing Disgusted with my Alma Mater.

As a PSU alum, I've been so upset about this over this that I've been at a loss for words.  Above all else, as a Penn State alum I've always been Penn State Proud.  Folks that didn't go there can't possibly understand what that means. 

Penn State Proud means being upheld to an academic standard considered to be "public university Ivy league".  It means living in a town for seven years (for me) among the safest and least stressful in the nation.  It means that if your team doesn't win, you can at least say, "yeah, but we KNOW we did it without cheating, it's freakin' Penn State."  WE ARE...PENN STATE.

Penn State is a little bubble of safety as you traverse the minefield of passage from youth to adulthood.  It might very well be the most insulated environment anywhere.  To me, that illusion is gone.

Joe Paterno has been the embodiment of all that is Penn State.  He has devoted his life to the maturation and development of athletes and, for the most part, students.  He has donated an incredible amount of money and time into the development and advancement of the University.  I have been among the dwindling minority that have supported Joe recently, basically saying, "Dude can coach 'till he's a hundred for all I care...he deserves it."   I really feel that's gone, too.

For me, this has nothing, and everything to do with the football program.  The nothing part is that the freakin' President of the University knew about this, and did nothing.  The head of the Keystone Cops University Police knew about this, and did nothing.  The football part is only about fear and cowardice.  Fear and cowardice that calling out this predator would jeopardize your job as an assistant football coach.  Cowardice that you put the supposed pristine reputation of your employer above the welfare of a defenseless minor.

I know more details will come out over the coming days and weeks.  I know it's theoretically possible that it's not as bad as it seems.  I honestly don't see how.

I just never thought I'd see the day where I'd be embarrassed to say I'm a Penn Stater.  So sad. 

Here are my abreviated thoughts and reasons why Paterno and EVERYONE currently in place at Penn State's athletic department need to be replaced.

I graduated from a prestigious Catholic High School in the mid 70's.  During my time there, ALL of the students were aware of two Catholic Brothers from the Society of Mary who were actively engaged in trying to lure kids/students/us into compromising positions.  We ALL knew to stay away from them and NEVER to be alone with them.  It was, literally, common knowledge.

Times were different in the '70's and these things were generally not spoken about. Still,  it was no surprise to see the criminal indictments come down on the two offenders in the '90's.  Like I said.....duh....no kidding!!!  There was some surprise at who the victims were, but you get over that pretty quick...it's kids vs. authority, some kids aren't strong.

We knew, our parents knew, teachers knew.  I KNOW they did because I was there when it was brought up.  Again, you just didn't DO ANYTHING about it.  Maybe it was lack of "proof", or the unwillingness to be the person who calls someone out on such a henious crime.  I don't know.  What I do know is that HUNDREDS and maybe THOUSANDS of people knew these two guys were predators.

Now flash forward to the situation at Penn State.  I've read the grand jury indictments.  There was an investigation in 1998.  He was caught with 10-13 year old boys in the shower, ON CAMPUS, in sexual positions, on 2 occasions.  He had access to HUNDREDS of kids through his foundation.  He made trips to bowl games and stayed the night in the hotel rooms of the children he brought, along with his wife, who was in another room.  Parents were complaining to the school and to Paterno.  Do you think there was ANYONE who didn't have a conversation/opinion/experience to relate with Sandusky?  There wasn't....they all knew.

Look, I experienced it, so I understand how it simmers.....as I tried to explain above.  But that obviously doesn't make it right.  And the only way to rid an institution of the guilt, the shame, and the culpability, is to rid it of everyone who was there and did not stand up.  Unfortunately, it includes almost everyone in authority. It just does. They all knew, they all talked about it, these things are NOT secrets.

I owe a very successful and productive life to the Brothers of the Society of Mary.  I couldn't begin to tell you the great work I saw them do with regards to building men.  The two criminals I described in this post are an abboration.  I'm sure there are hundreds and hundreds of men who will speak to the good work of Joe Paterno and his staff in the forging of their character.  I get it. I also understand that they screwed up.  I doesn't necessarily make them bad men.....these things are hard for the experts, much less the rest of us, but they still have to go.  They, at the VERY LEAST, suspected there was something terribly wrong and did nothing...and the most vunerable of children were victimized because of it.

Wait until you see how many people come forward now as victims.  He got caught twice in the shower, do you think he got caught both times he was there?  My gosh, he was there hundreds of times with multiple victims/kids....you'll see.

It is what it is.....but Paterno and the rest of the Athletic department of Penn have to leave. 

That's how you end it.

Ugh.  http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20111108_Timeline_of_events.html

Sad.   I Feel sorry for these individuals that are on the Honorary board of directors for the the Second Mile.     

http://www.thesecondmile.org/ourTeam/bod/bodHono.php

Most of all feel bad for all these foster kids and young ones that are put in these sitiuations of false hope.....to get used and abused.

One shoe dropped: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/09/report-joe-paterno-to-retire-at-seasons-end/?hpt=hp_c1

It'll be interesting to see whether the trustees will let him finish the season, or remove him immediately. My guess is that they'll let him coach the game this weekend - his last home game - then remove him for the remaining road games / bowl games.

You just gave yourself every reason for ALL of them to go, as I said needed to happen.  I'm not mad at anyone.  All were complicit....it really doesn't matter to what degree.