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2009-04-28 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

tcovert - 2009-04-27 12:12 PM

Doing the run with Liz yesterday pretty much validated some things I tend to believe about the marathon, both from my experiences and what I've heard from others.

The marathon really divides into three sections.  The first third or so (8-10 miles) should be within the comfort zone for most people who take on a marathon, i.e., it should be within the range where most longer runs are on a regular basis.  During this section, you're warming up and feeling good and the temptation is there to go too fast.

The second section (middle third, say miles 9-18) is where the outcome of your marathon is really set up.  This is where pretty much everyone--no matter how fit--is going to really start working.  This is where you have to constantly manage the race...back off your pace if you need to, watch your posture, take in extra nutrition or electrolytes, what have you.  This is all with the recognition that everyone is going to be suffering for most or all of the last third of the race and you need to make it out of the middle third with as much left as possible.  Unless you've been doing at least monthly runs of over 15 miles--and how many people really do that--the middle section is going to hurt...the question is whether it's going to be uncomfortable or torture.  That's where the difference betw. an okay day and an awful one lies.

Somewhere late in the race (the truism is "mile 20"), everyone runs low on fuel--on top of the predictable aches and pains from having run more than ten miles--and the body says it wants to stop.  The deeper into the race you get before you are just bargaining with yourself to hang on or whatever the better.  Hence the need to manage the difficult middle section.

That's my two cents on marathoning.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Todd. I think it's worth WAY more than 2 cents. It makes a lot of sense to me. I think it comes back to preparation, both mental and physical and nutrition. I may book mark this post and refer to it when I'm in the thick of training for my first one, which I'm planning as Long Beach. Have you done that? If so, what do you think?

I'm starting a build week and I'm already tired! I didn't get much sleep and I've got 3 hours of bike/swim strength planned for today.

Have a good one, ya'll.

Lynn



2009-04-29 7:39 AM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

I'm glad we are talking about the mental game.  I think it is far more a part of things than people admit.  It is also one that is harder to express than;  I did 3X 15 mins at 95%.  That has a definite place, too.  But, what is it that drives us to push the envelope?

For example, last night I was to do 3X 15 mins at 95% FTP, which is 232 watts for me.  So it's raining and cold - again - in Illinois.  The weather has sucked this spring, cold, wet and windy.  So I get on my duds, kiss my wife (she is very supportive and never tells me I'm crazy to my face) and out I go.  I finish one interval at 100 % plus, 250 watts, into the wind.  Then at 13 mins into the second, a pebble works into the tire and I flat.  I was at 100 percent up to that point, finished at nearly 100%.  So I change the tube in the rain, get back on and decide to try to finish out with whatever I have left rather than abandoning the workout.  I headed back to town all out all the way.  28 mins at just over 100%. 

When I got home, I talked to my wife about what makes me do these things. It's a talk we have often.  Part of it certainly is the aftermath of the cancer.  It supercharged my desire to get in shape.  No question.  They said the better shape I'm in, the less chance of a relapse.  Amen. 

I also want to show other cancer survivors in their 50s and older that it doesn't have to stop them no matter what on-going problems from it we live with, and I do live with ongoing physical problems from the surgery.  

Part of it is I really do feel like I'm a 15-year-old on Saturday morning most days.  

And, it's just damn fun to come home after a ride like last night with a smile on my face, knowing I met another challenge and beat it down.   

Goals?  I like to set my own, then run them by folks here and my coaches and my wife to see if I'm nuts or not.  My team is almost always supportive and positive.  I think that's why I do this the most.   To stay on the positive side of life.  

We have funny ways of saying things, too, sometimes negative ways without even realizing it.  We talk about "my limiter."  I used to say, "Running is my limiter."  Then I realized the other day, that's a horrible way of viewing it.   Running is not my limiter.  It just happens to be my biggest challenge of a triathlon, the area I need to make the most improvement. And, I have made much improvement.  From not being able to run 3 mins to running 7.5 miles in 75 mins is not bad for 8 months work.  

The only "limiter" I have is my own attitude.  I accept no limits, or limiters, any more.   If 20 miles is a place I have to watch, then I must hydrate and eat enough to find my way through it.  Others do it all the time.  So can I.  Even at 57 or 58 or whenever I get to do a marathon, and later maybe even an Iron Man.

This is fun, isn't it?     



   
 



Edited by IceManScott 2009-04-29 12:38 PM
2009-04-29 11:01 AM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

Thanks for your perspective on limiter. I really agree. We need to watch our words and how we think of things. I get this daily message from the "Universe" and here's what it said today: it's so ridiculously, yet painfully simple, that you're going to have a knock-down, hair-pulling, tongue-twisting, feet-stomping, baby-pouting, screaming fit (this happens all the time here), when you see that all you truly ever had to do to get heaven and earth to shake, rattle, and roll, was hold in your mind what you wanted, feel its emotional reality, and behave as if you already had it.

Just thought I'd warn you.

 

Affectionately,
    The Universe

I do think it's a universal truth that "thoughts are things" and they affect/effect our reality. Don't mean to go woo-woo on you but my experience has found this to be true.

I've noticed lately that I look at a hill coming up when I'm on my bike and I think, oh, no a big hill, I'd better shift to a lower (easier) gear. But, I'm now waiting until my legs and/or body tells me to switch down and finding that I'm way stronger than I thought and I've probably gotten stronger, plus I'm in my big chain ring waaayyy more. For me that's probably a combination of mental and physical strength improvement.

Scott, since you're somewhat in the public eye with your journey do you ever feel like you would let other people down if you backed off? Just curious. You're always so generously sharing your journey on here, and I'd imagine in your writings for the paper from time to time.

As an aside, I'll be visiting my family in Indiana just a week before my Int'l distance tri in June (which is here in CA). Last year while visiting I ran in the pouring rain 6 miles or so and had a blast!! Not sure if you're familiar with south-central IN, but I stay with relatives near Bloomington, IN and stay at their place on Lake Lemon. Since you're a fishing guy thought you might be familiar with it. I get a lot of open water swimming experience while I'm there.

Also wanted to share a swimming article from a guy who also mentors a group on here.

http://www.xtri.com/reports.aspx?riIDReport=4589&CAT=4&xref=xx

You may also want to peruse his website: http://www.endurancecorner.com

Ifind there are very many opinions on this tri sport.

 

2009-04-29 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
lmscozz - 2009-04-29 9:01 AM

I do think it's a universal truth that "thoughts are things" and they affect/effect our reality. Don't mean to go woo-woo on you but my experience has found this to be true.



Absolutely true, from my perspective.  Perhaps more specifically, the religious path I follow is heavily organized around the notion that words shape reality.  Don't have to be on the same spiritual path I'm on...or any such path, IMO...to accept that concept as carrying an essential truth.  And, yup, conscious thoughts count as words in my book.
2009-04-29 12:44 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
I once heard, "A man is what he thinks about all day long."  Some Greek said that.  It is so true.   

And yes, I've shared the journey over the years in the paper.  I get loads of positive feedback that folks have been inspired to change things, lose weight, stop smoking, etc., because of what they've read.  That is so cool. 

But, I would never presume to be on some kind of mission from God like the Blues Bros.  I'm just trying to improve steadily and let others know they can too.  I do think once in a while about how things will read in the paper.  "I met a challenge and beat it," versus "I'm a big wimp and quit!"  I admit that provides some motivation.  But, that's not all bad.  I think it is great in fact.  I'm a communicator.  I need to tell the story as it happens and hope the moral is a good one.  

   
2009-04-29 11:21 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Hey guys, sorry I've been away. Just really working hard to keep all the balls in the air. The conversation going on here is a really great one and each of you has such great perspectives. Todd's marathon thoughts and the mental attitude part of the experience made me go back and read something I wrote after I ran my first (only) marathon. Very new to the running/triathlon thing, I learned so much about myself that I never knew. Here is what I wrote: 


Mile 1 People shoulder to shoulder and as far down the road and behind me as I could see. Lots of conversation. The strange sound of 2500 pairs of feet pounding down the road.
Mile 3 2500 people who have spent the morning hydrating now need to pee! Some people found bushes, I found a porta jon on a new home construction, one lady went in someone's yard! Soon we started coming across the marathon porta jons and long lines formed.
Mile 4 A hill. Some people walked up it, still shoulder to shoulder. A lot of grumbling about the hill (apparently runners don't like hills). I came upon an older weird-looking guy with a long beard "shuffling" a slow strange run. On his back was a sign "Running down cancer one marathon at a time" "Run it down Brother" I said. I should also say at this point the marathon runners (26.2miles) and the half marathon runners (13.1miles) were running together, soon to split ways at mile 5ish. They had different colored bib numbers to differentiate. The old guy had a white number....the marathon
Mile 5 We split ways and the people thin out. About 8-10 ahead and behind me in view. Now it was just the hardcore people (only 500 of us)
Mile 7 Lots of people passing me! College coeds, soccer moms, forty something execs. I kept on my pace (although I didn’t like this at all) Running now around a beautiful lake. They had candy at the water station, I got some.
Mile 10 Into residential areas now. I feel great. Lots of people on corners cheering us on and standing in their front yards watching. No more conversation between runners though. Only silence from now on.
Mile 13 A porta jon stop and water station. The chip on my shoe beeped as I crossed the 13.1 marker, and went over the mats. This records the split time. I looked at my watch 2:20
Mile 15 Passed a man and wife walking. He was complaining about how he had busted his in training and now he couldn’t do it so he was walking. I felt like saying “you don’t lose till you quit” But I could tell it was his nature. Here people do what they do. The whiners whine, the quitters quit, the drama queens put on drama, and the fighters fight.
Mile 17 I ran past a group of about 20 spectators who had probably been there a while and were giving half-hearted cheers. I started clapping my hands and saying woohoo! They erupted, glad for the enthusiasm. I had this thought “you’ve gone 17 miles, that’s amazing….but NINE more to go” I laughed at it, but wasn’t bothered. I felt great!
Mile 18 I really don’t feel “great” anymore. It’s amazing how fast that changed. It wasn’t bad though, I came here to feel challenged.
Mile 19 My “I really don’t feel great anymore” looked up to see a hill. A big one, about a mile long and pretty steep. I knew it was time to dig deep. There were about 30 runners here all walking. Some occasionally running for a few seconds only to give an exasperated sigh and go back to walking. I ran for a long time. My side was hurting now and my legs felt like they had bricks tied to them. I stopped running. I looked at the hill. It’s really going to beat me. I saw a guy up ahead walk past a cheering spectator…walk. I went back to running. “I came to run a marathon“, I thought, “not walk one.” (Now I know why runners don’t like hills)
Mile 20 I cleared the hill, but have nothing left. One hour to go. How is that supposed to work. I now crossed from “digging deep” to “I’ve never been here before”
Mile 22 I have now officially passed all the college coeds, soccer moms, and forty something execs who passed me earlier. They’re walking…. at least some of the time. Some guy was sitting on the side of the road. The ambulance is driving up and down the street watching us. I tried to pass a 45 year old “Motherish” looking woman who had been walking. She kept up and ran right next to me for a long time like we were two great competitors fighting for the lead. I wondered what things she had seen or been through in life to help here find the strength to keep going. Soon she stopped and went back to walking.
Mile 23 Still 30 minutes left. That’s a long time, when you feel like you could maybe go 1 or 2.
Mile 24 Stay loose, stay positive. No one gets a step past here without being 100 percent positive.
Mile 25 lskdjf werhf48ru234897238v sfnmdruweyrc
Mile 26 I thought I might get this “last mile” euphoric feeling and come cruising in. I did not. I had nothing left. I really might not make it. I thought of anything. I recounted Rudyard Kipling’s “If” and surprisingly remembered every word, …..“If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew, to serve their turn long after they gone, and so hold on when there is nothing in you, except the will that says to them hold on”…..but was too far gone for them to really help. But I didn’t quit. I reminded myself that I had come, not to win or lose, but to do battle. So do battle, I did..2 I really forgot a marathon is not 26 it’s 26.2. I came around a corner waiting to see a finish line, and was “encouraged” by a volunteer that I had only about 300 yards left! My kids would be there, and I would not let them see Daddy come walking across.
Finish They announced my name over the loudspeaker as I came down, and Sheryl and the kids were in the crowd cheering me on.

 

This was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, and having seen the people who completed it, and done so myself, I’ve come to one conclusion:

Running a marathon has nothing to do with being an athlete

……but I am now ……….invincible



Edited by Jake1008 2009-04-29 11:24 PM


2009-04-29 11:43 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

Fantastic Jake. Thanks so very much for sharing your experience. Now it really scares the hell out of me! Someday my 26.2 will come.

2009-04-30 1:40 PM
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Awesome jake.  Great write-up.

 

 

2009-04-30 1:47 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Wow Jake, great job!!

Okay, I've got a "You know you're a triathlete when ..." story for y'all:

I'm in Florida right now for a week of board meetings, and we, as the staff of our organization, gave live presentations today to the board members.  Afterward, we had our usual staff only lunch meeting to recap, get ready for the next meetings, etc.  At the end as we were breaking up to enjoy some of the afternoon, our CEO asked, "Hey, did anyone happen to bring any swim goggles, because I'd love to swim some laps?"  I said yes and that he could borrow them.  I then proceeded to pull them out of my brief case right there at the table.  Everyone's jaw kind of dropped, like, "Are you serious?  You have them *with* you?"    CEO laughed, thought it was hysterical.

But wait, there's more ... my CEO then asked, "Are you sure? You don't need them?"

My response?  "It's okay, I have another pair in my room."

Triathlete dork, that's me!
2009-05-01 1:11 AM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Great stuff, Jake and Morgan!

Well, it's 11pm and the car is loaded except for the bike carrier, my bike, and the cooler.  Off to Wildflower around 6am.  Feeling healthy and well trained (though still angst-ing about shoe/orthotic choice).  Biggest uncertainty is handling the hills with a 53/39 after 2+ years of a triple crankset.  But I've tried to specifically prepare for that, so we'll see if I'm really ready at around 11:45 Saturday morning when I should be hitting "Nasty Grade"...4+ miles of at least 4%-5% grade.

Hope y'all have a great weekend...catch you next week!
2009-05-01 12:04 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

I know Todd won't see this, but GOOO Todd! I'm sure you'll do great with all that dedication and training. Looking forward to your race report.

 

What else is up for you all this weekend? I'm getting ready to do a reverse brick b/r in a bit and then 2 hour bike Sat. and hour run on Sunday. I joined the boys v. girls swim challenge thread so I'll need to swim some over the weekend as well.

Nice story Morgan. Did it earn you any brownie points with the CEO?

Have a good weekend everyone!

 

Lynn



2009-05-01 1:42 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
12K run Saturday. A thousand people show up. I'm riding my bike there and home so I can park easier. :/  This is a running "race."  I was mostly hoping to stretch my distance so I could cut the times on the 5K and 10K in the two triathlons coming up and to see if I can go farther than the 10 K.  Answer is yes, done it twice now, so If I devote the time, I think I can add another 6 and get to a half marathon eventually. 

My bike coach said he and some of his gang will ride out to meet me if they can, then I'll change clothes and ride off with them for a while.  Total 2- to 3 hour bike ride. 

Sunday, 3 hour bike on the TT bike.  I was hoping to have an adjustable stem in to work on position but that appears like it won't be happening.   So, I'll do what I can with a wrench and head out.





2009-05-03 9:21 PM
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The race went as well as I hoped.  I rode the 13 miles to the lake to avoid parking problems.  Ran 12K, 7.5 miles, at 10:10 pace for 1:15:47.  No speed demon but I was pleased I did that well.  That pace is what I was doing 5K at earlier this year.  So joining the running club did what I hoped.  It stretched me to be able to ran farther.  Hopefully that will translate to faster 5K and 10 K at the triathlons coming up. 

I also have to get involved with another running program to build on the progress.  Unsure what that will be. 

After the race, my bike coach and I rode another 30 miles and home.  Then, today, I did 50 miles on the TT bike and another 10 on the titanium road bike.  Great weather for a change.  The TT bike still needs to be fitted better.  I have an adjustable stem coming.

2009-05-03 10:28 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
IceManScott - 2009-05-03 7:21 PM The race went as well as I hoped.  I rode the 13 miles to the lake to avoid parking problems.  Ran 12K, 7.5 miles, at 10:10 pace for 1:15:47.  No speed demon but I was pleased I did that well.  That pace is what I was doing 5K at earlier this year.  So joining the running club did what I hoped.  It stretched me to be able to ran farther.  Hopefully that will translate to faster 5K and 10 K at the triathlons coming up. 

I also have to get involved with another running program to build on the progress.  Unsure what that will be. 

After the race, my bike coach and I rode another 30 miles and home.  Then, today, I did 50 miles on the TT bike and another 10 on the titanium road bike.  Great weather for a change.  The TT bike still needs to be fitted better.  I have an adjustable stem coming.



Great job! Congratulations!
2009-05-03 10:33 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

IceManScott - 2009-05-03 7:21 PM The race went as well as I hoped.  I rode the 13 miles to the lake to avoid parking problems.  Ran 12K, 7.5 miles, at 10:10 pace for 1:15:47.  No speed demon but I was pleased I did that well.  That pace is what I was doing 5K at earlier this year.  So joining the running club did what I hoped.  It stretched me to be able to ran farther.  Hopefully that will translate to faster 5K and 10 K at the triathlons coming up. 

I also have to get involved with another running program to build on the progress.  Unsure what that will be. 

After the race, my bike coach and I rode another 30 miles and home.  Then, today, I did 50 miles on the TT bike and another 10 on the titanium road bike.  Great weather for a change.  The TT bike still needs to be fitted better.  I have an adjustable stem coming.

Nice job Scott. Look how far you've come!!

 

Lynn

Now we need to hear from Todd about Wildflower. Who else was racing this weekend?

 

2009-05-04 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Great job, Scott!  That's a really good time...terrific progress!


2009-05-04 10:05 AM
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I'm back...a little tired...very sunburned.  Splits are in my log...good swim (could have been even better, but went very off course near the turnaround), okay bike (by my standards)...blew up less than one mile into the run.  Meh.

RR will be up sometime in the next couple days.  One thing I'll say:  Run course at WF is much tougher than the bike.  (Which is not to say the bike was anything less than tough.)
2009-05-04 11:43 PM
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tcovert - 2009-05-04 8:05 AM I'm back...a little tired...very sunburned.  Splits are in my log...good swim (could have been even better, but went very off course near the turnaround), okay bike (by my standards)...blew up less than one mile into the run.  Meh.

RR will be up sometime in the next couple days.  One thing I'll say:  Run course at WF is much tougher than the bike.  (Which is not to say the bike was anything less than tough.)


So cool! I'm dying to do WF, but my mountain bike was stolen and I'm not ready for an Oly. I'm hoping to be up there for the Oly next year! Sounds like an incredible event/weekend!
2009-05-05 2:44 AM
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Probably my one attempt at WF...run course was just too over-the-top for my tastes:  There was one point where I looked up to the top of a hill that went on for two straight miles and of the 11 people I could see ahead, 9 were walking...and the 2 that weren't were running only in the most charitable sense of the word.  It would be a tough standalone trail half mary...to try to run the whole course after a hard bike segment just seemed beyond masochistic.  At a certain point, I felt the run segment was more a stunt than a legitimate running course (although obviously a reasonable large number of uber-fit athletes manage to run the whole thing).  I found myself looking up and saying, "You've got to be kidding."  Beautiful hiking trail, though...and I did put in about 1.8 miles of hiking amidst 13.1 miles of half mary.

We'll be at IM St. George next year during WF weekend, but my wife is thinking about tackling the Oly in 2011.  I'm fine with sticking sherpa duty if she does.  Had a great time camping and cheering on the Oly competitors on Sunday...the event as a whole is a lot of fun.

(Okay, I will admit that it was cool managing to blow past people down Lynch Hill full throttle on the run like Macca did in his win last year...glad I had enough gas in the tank to do that.  And chatting briefly with Blaine from THE BIGGEST LOSER as I passed him at the beginning of the run was fun.)
2009-05-06 6:48 AM
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Suffering from the aftermath of a charlie horse in my left calf in the pool yesterday.  I used Icy Hot, did my intense Tuesday bike drill last night.  34 miles, 2 hours with 2X 20 mins @ 98% FTP.  It was ok then.  Iced when I got home.  Still really sore, but softer now at least.  Today is an easy day on the bike, recovery day.  I'm supposed to run but that may be a jog/walk if the muscle acts up again. 

Don't know what did it.  I hydrate, doing more with that today and yesterday.  I take One a Day and eat Fiber One for breakfast, so should be getting potassium.  Who the hell knows? 
2009-05-06 1:26 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Wildflower race report is up.


2009-05-08 8:42 AM
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No charlie horse, muscle strain.  Pain and stiffness continue but are lesser.  Using heat and The Stick.  Rest day today after a bike drill last night, 28 miles racing a storm.  Lovely ride, windy.  Not pushing it.  

Have a great weekend and Mothers Day everybody.  
2009-05-09 9:15 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL

IceManScott - 2009-05-06 4:48 AM Suffering from the aftermath of a charlie horse in my left calf in the pool yesterday.  I used Icy Hot, did my intense Tuesday bike drill last night.  34 miles, 2 hours with 2X 20 mins @ 98% FTP.  It was ok then.  Iced when I got home.  Still really sore, but softer now at least.  Today is an easy day on the bike, recovery day.  I'm supposed to run but that may be a jog/walk if the muscle acts up again. 

Don't know what did it.  I hydrate, doing more with that today and yesterday.  I take One a Day and eat Fiber One for breakfast, so should be getting potassium.  Who the hell knows? 

Iceman -- Just wanted to share my calf cramp story. I overdid running up some hills last year and it kind of nagged me on and off for a month or so. I realized that my calves just weren't used to transitioning from the bike to run at ALL. It was using those muscles in a whole new way. So I read up, got my nutrition and hydration straight (potassium and sodium and bananas and other foods that contain these) and found that tonic water ( no alcohol and diet tonic to boot) has a wee bit of quinine that helps prevent cramping. Every so often when I feel one coming on, I'll get a small glass of that with some lemon juice squeezed in. Also massage helps a bunch. Just thought I'd share my experience. The good news is -- it finally did go away.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. That wx back in IL looks scary. Hope you're all right and out of harm's way.

2009-05-10 10:37 PM
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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Diet tonic water.  I will try.  I also boosted the bananas and water and used the Stick.   The tightness is nearly all gone.  I only felt a little when I woke up.  Rode 60 miles plus.  No real aftermath.  I'm going to try to run a bit by Wednesday if the improvement continues.  That will be 8 days.  

I think I hurt it the day I ran the 7.5 after riding there on my bike, then home with my coach.  I rushed without stretching or eating anything after the run.  I should have ate and drank and stretched.  That will not happen again.  

  

 
2009-05-11 10:37 PM
in reply to: #1856528

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Subject: RE: tcovert's Winter 2009 Mentor Group - FULL
Hi everyone! My hip is on the mend and I'm back into training. I was able to pull off five minutes of running today! Woo hoo! I'm slowly building bike miles. I'm doing long swims because I'm doing a training plan for either a 1.25 or 2.5 mile OW swim this summer. I think not being able to train motivated me to train more, so I'm doing really well and feeling good about it!
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