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2009-12-16 10:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Hey all.  This will be the first full Ironman for my buddy Monte and I. Love the thread and all of the course scouting and wisdom - keep it coming.  I am going to be in St. G the week of 1/31 on the way to do the Surf City 1/2M and would love to get a ride of the loop in.  Anybody else in the area this week up for a ride?


2009-12-18 12:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
The race is in the mountains people, so there will be wind in the morning and the evening regardless of the weather. It is just a fact...

Mike
2009-12-18 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
As the saying goes "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worse."  The way things are going so far I don't think it could get any worse then what I have been training in.  I can't tell you how many runs and rides I have done in the rain, wind, and cold the last month.....and winter is only starting.  If we can make it through a winter of training nothing will stop us come May.  Or at least that is what I am telling myself.
2009-12-18 1:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
garryowen96 - 2009-12-13 10:12 PM nelsonvI just picked up a Rocket Science full suit this weekend. I tried the Ironman Aquasphere, and the QR suits and I loved the way the Rocket Science felt. It was very light and seemed to provide a much greater freedom of movement than the other suits. Much like your bike, I think the bottom line is the best suit will be the one that fits you best.I'm not sure if you have a RocketScience dealer near you, but you can order on-line from Adrenaline Tri-Sport in Niwot, CO.Good luck.Joe


Thanks for the advice Joe.  I just received my XTERRA full swimsuit I got on sales (50% off) here in BT. 
2009-12-30 9:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Ok, so I am in St George this week previewing the course a bit. I am so glad that we are not likely to have snow in May. I did the loop starting at Bluff street today and it was really cold and I rode through a blizzard. Yes. A BLIZZARD!

Now take what I say with a grain of salt as I am not a strong biker. I have done a hilly Iron distance race before, but I barely made the cut offs. I am hoping to give myself a little more room this year. We will see. I don't want to push this course too much or I won't have anything left for the run, which seriously climbs all over the red rocks above the city.

The course is tough. People coming from flat states are going to be at a real disadvantage here. On this course, you are really either going up or going down, never flat. The road through Gunlock is chip sealed and bumpy. There are four cattle guards to contend with. It was snowing and the grate was wet so I chose to get off my bike and walk it rather than risk crashing as I was by myself, miles from anywhere and my cell phone had no signal.

The Veyo hill looks like the worst one, but isn't. There are several real nasty hills. According to my data, Veyo is between 8-13% for .75 of a mile. There are others that are shorter, but go up to 15%. Once you do get to the top, it is a screaming fast ride into town for the second loop. That was good as it gave my legs a chance to rest a bit and be more prepared for the climb again. I didn't do the loop again. I was too cold and wet.

My game plan for training for this one:

1. Make sure that I get down to my race weight so I don't have to lug an extra 10-15lbs up those hills.
2. Get some good hill work in at least once a week.
3. Breathe. It will be ok. I am not in top trained condition yet. I have a couple of months yet. I got through it today. I will be better trained in May.
2009-12-31 7:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Thanks irongirl for the comments and eyewitness report! Increasing intensity alot inside here with spin/trainer with the nasty weather outside. Hopefully will translate into better road performance-anxious to get into the sun again!


2009-12-31 9:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread

IM St George will also be my first attempt at an IM.  I'm from PA and heading to ST George to pre-ride the bike coarse sometime from the 4th through 7th of Feb.  I would be interested in company if anybody else wants to ride.   I'm shipping my Tri bike out and need to figure out "gears" for the race.  Currently setup with 11-23 but looking to step up to 11-25 or 26 for race (Pending training ride results).

2009-12-31 1:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
There could be snow there in May. Not likely, but always possible. St. George is in the middle of the desert, but I have been in snowstorms there during the spring that would cancel the race. I am going to bring my entire wardrobe down with me just in case we hit a cold spell right about then.

Mike
2009-12-31 5:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread

Hi everyone, I found this review posted in a local blog that should be very interesting for all the people planning to participate in Ironman St. George this year:  (BTW, I don't know who created this report...)

<<<>>>

A training buddy and I just got back from St. George. He's signed up for next year, and I'll just say that I'm glad he's doing it and not me.

Brief synopsis: Difficult bike, pacing will be vital, chip seal is awful. Run is all uphill or downhill, no shade, brutal.

Background: my 2nd year in the sport, 30-34 AG, <5:00 HIM'er (awful swimmer, good biker, acceptable runner); training partner is 45-49 AG, multiple Kona qualifier, did 10:30ish there last year, relatively strong all around. Neither of us is in peak shape, but not completely in couch potato mode either.

We began the first morning by driving out to the swim at the reservoir. It was a rather ambitious $10 charge just to get in the park ("...but we're just going to drive in, take a look, and then turn around. Could you let us do that?" "Sure, after you pay $10...") The setting is lovely, with striated red rock formations surrounded by desert and scrub brush. According to the race map, the swim course threads between a large rock island and the shore. This passage looked to be about 25 yards wide, so clearly the water level was way down. The park ranger said that the water should be at least 10-12 feet higher on race day. She expected the temperature to be about 67-68 degrees based on her experience.

There's a large parking lot perfect for T1. However, spectators and athletes will probably need to be transported in, since it didn't appear that there were a lot of alternative parking options.

We didn't bike the first part of the course, which basically consists of an initial long but relatively shallow climb out of the reservoir. The course meanders through some side streets and eventually comes out onto a section of the run course. This will be an opportunity to find your pace and prepare for the two large loops.

The intersection of Bluff and Skyline/Snow Canyon will be a familiar site by the time you're done with this course; you'll see it seven times between the run and the bike.

The loop begins by winding through some housing developments. When we rode at 8:00 in the morning, it was about 75 degrees or so. When we rode it a few hours later, it was over 100. There's very little shade anywhere on the course, with no tall buildings or overhanging trees. For us, the course really began with the right hand turn onto H91. This is all patched chip seal. I've found that this particular surface definitely robs me of speed. I also find myself experiencing more core fatigue... it's harder to relax when you're constantly vibrating and I tighten my core in order to provide a better "platform" for power application.

After bouncing your way along 91, you'll veer right onto 3184 and start riding through a narrower canyon. There might be some shade provided by the canyon walls, but that's dependent on sun angle (not sure what that will be in May) and the time of day, of course. When we rode it the first day at around noon, there was zero shade. The second day we rode it at 8:30ish, we got a little shade from the rocks. The road generally consists of rollers on an uphill bias, but there are perhaps four shorter (~:45 to 1:15 or so) hills in which I came out of aero.

We both had power meters (SRM for me, PT for him) and found that pacing is crucial. We went out way too hard the first day, and I simply burned too many matches on the first loop. The second day went much better as we tried to cap our power on these shorter hills. I would bet on a large % of AGers pushing too much on the first loop, being completely gassed on the second loop, and really suffering on the run.

The small town on Gunlock is on the course... not much to see or do there. If you're going to ride the course, I didn't see a store or place to refuel here.

The main climb on the loop is a switchback that occurs about 1/2 way through the entire loop. It's about .8 mile, rising about 400 feet in that distance for an average grade of just over 9%. I think it peaks at around 16-17%, and this occurs near the top of the climb. It's a relatively short but nasty little f'er.

This brings you in to the town of Veyo and a right onto H18 to head back into town. Veyo does have a small convenience/feed store to get some Gatorade/H20/etc. You're now on top of a wide plateau, and we had some good headwinds during our first ride. There's a slow gradual climb away from Veyo, as the road undulates gradually over the next 5 to 6 miles.

The first of the significant descents starts about 6.5 miles out of Veyo, as you approach Snow Canyon State park on your right. This continues for two miles, and levels out slightly with some slight climbs; you're still able to stay in aero. There's a brief respite from the chip seal with some nice smooth pavement (which will make you realize how much you've been vibrating and rattling around for the last 35 miles) but then, before you can say "ahhhhh...", you're back on the patched chip seal again.

The final major descent occurs after a few more miles as you wind your way down toward that Bluff/Snow Canyon intersection I mentioned earlier. It's not a technical descent at all. Only the quality of the road surface, the small shoulder, and the numerous trucks with horse trailers screaming past us made us a little skittish. Nevertheless, we still hit almost 50 mph on the descent.

Then you grab the brakes and make a hard right to do it all over again.

The bike course will be very challenging because of the hills, road surface, and weather conditions. I found it difficult to get in a solid rhythm because of the rolling hills on the course, which usually don't necessitate getting out of aero, but I found myself switching gears quite a bit. I believe a previous poster had mentioned the importance of a power meter, and I completely agree: pacing yourself up the hills and making sure you cap your power appropriately will pay big dividends. The chip seal just beats you up. When we rode the course the first day at noon, my SRM was over 100. I'd expect high temperatures especially for the second loop, with little to no shade. Coming out of Veyo, you could get hit with some serious winds.

Which brings us to the run...

It starts uphill immediately and there's not much downhill to speak of until almost mile 5. You climb up Main to a little roundabout and veer left onto Diagonal. It's a gradual climb to a right on 18, and then the out-and-back on 1250 up to the Elks Lodge is a short series of stepped hills.

On the second day, we ran this as a brick after one loop of the bike course and found ourselves affected by the altitude (~3200') more than I would've thought. Coming from Seattle, we could definitely feel like we were more labored in our breathing and it was difficult to catch out breath. We slowed our pace significantly until we felt like it was under control.

Run up and down back to 18 to take a right at our infamous intersection again. Here's where the run really gets, um, good. There's an innocuous "8% grade" sign to let you know what's up. This steeper section, beginning at just before mile 3, lasts for perhaps 1/3 mile or so. The road continues to climb, albeit at lesser gradients, until mile 5. Then it flattens out and starts to turn down.

This downhill section is about 5% which can really hammer some tired quads.

There's a brief loop through a park which looks like it was added to simply add a little distance; we didn't do the loop, since even though it's off-road on a hard dirt path, it appears flat and tame.

The road continues to descend all the way to the turn around at 1000 E. We stopped at the Motel 6 for some water and ice. There is no other point along the run for refueling.

The run is going to be just brutal. No shade at all, except perhaps along Diagonal because of some small trees. The hills are difficult, and there's maybe 500 yards of flat running over the loop. Those athletes who went out too hard on the bike are going to pay dearly on the run. Fueling and fluids are going to be crucial because of the heat.

Run course elevation change was ~635 ft of climbing and descending per loop, so double it for the full mary. The climb from the intersection to Veyo was a little over 1700 ft.

I think this might have an extraordinary DNF rate... I can't wait to see what the average AGer is able to do out there.



Edited by nelsonv 2009-12-31 5:46 PM
2009-12-31 7:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
I think there is going to be an incredible dividing line between folks who have heavy hills to train on and those that live in very flat areas.

2009-12-31 8:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
I agree. My difficulty is going to be getting the hill training in freezing temperatures. We have lots of hills, but we won't thaw out until April or May.


2010-01-01 10:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
LittleCat - 2009-12-31 7:48 PM

I think there is going to be an incredible dividing line between folks who have heavy hills to train on and those that live in very flat areas.



I sure hope so.
2010-01-01 12:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
My dear Friends, in MHO, I suggest you to buy all the DVDs you can put your hand in to on hill training (CTS, Spinnervals, etc...) and start doing once per week as your short training and then as your long ride. I know is difficult to spend too much time in the trainer at home but: Success is when Opportunity Meets Preparation. Go for it!!!

Edited by nelsonv 2010-01-01 12:49 PM
2010-01-04 9:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Less than 4 months to go. The REAL training should be starting now.

Hopefully everyone is staying healthy. Unfortunately I've had a set back with a tibial stress fracture which has put my overall race expectations on hold. Almost felt like not racing at all a couple times last week. No running for at best 3 more weeks and I just hope and pray I can keep my run fitness with lots of biking and eliptical "running."

I'll be riding the full 112 course and running a 13.1 mile loop in St George first weekend of Feb and hope it's won't be too cold.
2010-01-04 10:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
First day of my IM plan started this morning!!!

Not sure who is local (Las Vegas valley), but I want to plan 3-4 rides on the course this winter if anyone is interested in meeting up and perhaps car pooling or something.
2010-01-04 10:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Let me also add:

I plan to add a heavy dose of training on Mt. Charleston this winter/spring.  I know that hill is steeper than anything at St. George, but that's a good thing, no?


2010-01-04 4:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
rbalazs - 2010-01-04 7:57 AM Less than 4 months to go. The REAL training should be starting now. Hopefully everyone is staying healthy. Unfortunately I've had a set back with a tibial stress fracture which has put my overall race expectations on hold. Almost felt like not racing at all a couple times last week. No running for at best 3 more weeks and I just hope and pray I can keep my run fitness with lots of biking and eliptical "running." I'll be riding the full 112 course and running a 13.1 mile loop in St George first weekend of Feb and hope it's won't be too cold.


^^^ No such luck.  Still fighting a stubborn piriformis injury (mercifully, my ankle injury is pretty much healed).  Took almost all of December off from running, but still a major problem.  Probably gonna have to shut down running and bag my marathon this spring to protect IMSG, unfortunately.

The good news is that I still find I have a ton of residual fitness from having done Vineman in August.  Not too far off where I planned to be on bike and swim, but run is shaping up to be a disaster, unfortunately.
2010-01-05 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
tcovert - 2010-01-04 4:35 PM

rbalazs - 2010-01-04 7:57 AM Less than 4 months to go. The REAL training should be starting now. Hopefully everyone is staying healthy. Unfortunately I've had a set back with a tibial stress fracture which has put my overall race expectations on hold. Almost felt like not racing at all a couple times last week. No running for at best 3 more weeks and I just hope and pray I can keep my run fitness with lots of biking and eliptical "running." I'll be riding the full 112 course and running a 13.1 mile loop in St George first weekend of Feb and hope it's won't be too cold.


^^^ No such luck.  Still fighting a stubborn piriformis injury (mercifully, my ankle injury is pretty much healed).  Took almost all of December off from running, but still a major problem.  Probably gonna have to shut down running and bag my marathon this spring to protect IMSG, unfortunately.

The good news is that I still find I have a ton of residual fitness from having done Vineman in August.  Not too far off where I planned to be on bike and swim, but run is shaping up to be a disaster, unfortunately.


Well, this is why they say getting to the starting line healthy is the hardest part. I completely agree with this. The good news for me is I had more running volume in 2009 than I did in 2008 and 2008 was my last IM year. I'm hoping my base, coupled with a stronger bike focus because of the injury, makes this IM run better than my last IM. I've gotta feeling I'll be hangin by a thread come mile 15 of the run.
2010-01-06 2:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
I would be cool for someone to post their power numbers from the bike course. I would love to see what it takes to bike up Veyo specifically. I have run it a couple of times, but biking up it will be different. It will be tough, but not impossible.

Mike
2010-01-07 10:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
I am really starting to get worried about this race.  This will be my 4th IM.  I did Lake Placid in 2007 adn had a great race.  I have been sick for 2 weeks and the weather here is not really helping things.  Lots of trainere rides.  I really hope to get down to Austin for some riding in hills.  I have a computrainer and have downloaded the St. George course but I can only ride a trainer for so long.  Just trying to stay focused and get as much training in as I can.

Eddy
2010-01-07 11:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Tsunami (Eddy) - 2010-01-07 10:13 AM I am really starting to get worried about this race.  This will be my 4th IM.  I did Lake Placid in 2007 adn had a great race.  I have been sick for 2 weeks and the weather here is not really helping things.  Lots of trainere rides.  I really hope to get down to Austin for some riding in hills.  I have a computrainer and have downloaded the St. George course but I can only ride a trainer for so long.  Just trying to stay focused and get as much training in as I can.

Eddy


I feel the same.  The flu and weather has put a damper on alot of my training. 


Bad news is Austin is not much better.  It has been a while since my last ride outside that it I did not fight wind, rain, fog, cold, or all the above.  All the past rides I have had to wear several layers of cloths and battle 20+ wind most of the ride.  Ihope things change soon. 


2010-01-07 12:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Eddy, since you are a 4x I'm. Your situation will only make your training and experience more interesting. I don't't know you but I know you will do great. Have fun!
Tsunami (Eddy) - 2010-01-07 11:13 AMI am really starting to get worried about this race.  This will be my 4th IM.  I did Lake Placid in 2007 adn had a great race.  I have been sick for 2 weeks and the weather here is not really helping things.  Lots of trainere rides.  I really hope to get down to Austin for some riding in hills.  I have a computrainer and have downloaded the St. George course but I can only ride a trainer for so long.  Just trying to stay focused and get as much training in as I can.

Eddy
2010-01-07 2:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Tsunami (Eddy) - 2010-01-07 10:13 AM

I am really starting to get worried about this race.  This will be my 4th IM.  I did Lake Placid in 2007 adn had a great race.  I have been sick for 2 weeks and the weather here is not really helping things.  Lots of trainere rides.  I really hope to get down to Austin for some riding in hills.  I have a computrainer and have downloaded the St. George course but I can only ride a trainer for so long.  Just trying to stay focused and get as much training in as I can.

Eddy


Hang in there. We're all kinda in the same boat with the crazy Texas weather lately. One of the main reasons I chose IMSG was because I felt like I had a training advantage over people up north. If it's cold here just think how bad it is further north. On the bright side it's very possible that we could see weather in the 70's and 80's in the next few weeks.
2010-01-07 2:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
The course is going to be the challenge here. The hills are going to be tough, but they are manageable. You guys will do great.

Mike
2010-01-07 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread
Thanks guys!  I guess because this is my 4th I know how good and bad an Ironman can go.  I have had great races and I had a race at IMAZ that I just walked/limped to the finish for a terrible day.  I don't want to make that mistake again and this race is set up to be much like IMAZ.  First year race, winter training and lots of work/family issues and illness to slow down training.  I am going to bust it for 4 months and then go race my best.  I know how to pace a race like this from doing Placid.  That may alos be what scares me.

Eddy
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