Dating (Page 5)

Buuuuut.....
I think this is a huge problem between men and women. Men, including a bunch on this page, are thinking in the moment and never beyond. That's okay, to an extent. At some point, you have to take a hard look at the relationship and decide if it's something you want to commit to. For most women, they aren't okay with just casually being involved with someone FOREVER. They want to know if there is a serious future and unfortunately that means having a conversation about it and making a decision.

Otherwise, that's called stringing the other person along.
  

I may not have made myself clear.  It's not that I only live in the moment and never beyond.  No.  I just never put the pressure on myself that focusing on the beyond would change my behavior as to who I really am.  I think that's the biggest mistake one can do in a relationship - pretend to be somebody your not and then slowly work in or suprise the other person after time.  The typical "they changed after we got married" scenario.  I also think it shows a lack of respect for the other person.  Sort of, "I don't care about you, just what's in your pants" or "I'm more concerned if you meet the proper spousal criteria."

I just feel that if you focus on enjoying one another's company and communicating, that's much better than trying to fit into roles with labels and expectations.  The more comfortable you are with someone, the better and clearer it is to communicate.  As I wrote above, I never looked for a wife, just someone to have fun with.  I found her, realized very quickly that we were in love, soon after that realized we could be together and on the 3rd day we talked and I asked her to marry me.  No one plans out something like that.

That is unless 3 days is considered "stringing the other person along"?

My best friend since Kindergarten did that all through his 20's and into his early 30's.  3 serious relationships (one for 5 years).  We never considered it stringing along because he was always upfront with his communications about not wanting to get married or even move in together.  Once he his 34 he started looking back on all the great girls he lost out on because he couldn't committ and was feeling very lonely. 

(side note; he's 35 and currently dating a gorgeous 20 year old college student and is really happy.  But there are a lot of age related issues they are working through and I could now see the tables turned and him wanting to committ and her not.)

I like and agree with all of that. I was probably projecting my most recent relationship (ok all of my serious relationships) into this thread more than anything.

I see it in a lot of men in their 20s... they really like the girl, just want to have fun, and don't want to really commit or settle down (but of course don't want to break up). 8 months or 5 years go by, and all the while the woman is thinking he is serious because he'd stuck around for so long. 

Allllll about communicating and communicating expectations I guess.
  

Yes, but we made it to page 6. And you know what? I still think dating is weird!

What I can say so far about me personally after reading everything and doing a self-assessment  is:

1. No pics of me and the ex hanging up.

2. I can live with myself and be pretty happy with who I am post-marriage.

3. I'm not an online dating kind of guy, I prefer to meet people in real-time.

3. I enjoy being out with someone who has mutual interests without worrying about 6 months down the road.

4. Any relationship has to be with someone independent and happy with themselves. I'm not fixing you, and you're not fixing me.

5. I also know I wouldn't mind a LTR, fun is nice but when it happens it will be good.

I still envision myself and my partner running races together in the 70-74 AG. And having  side-by-side tables at the chiropractor. Yes, I'm a romantic in a twisted sort of way.

And you're all pretty entertaining. If you start taking yourself too seriously you're probably a db

No.  It's all about men (and to some degree women too) being stupid, ignorant and falling into today's pop-culture stereotypes.  How many stupid "commitment-shy" movies are out there where the guy dating the smart, fun, beautiful, awesome girl says, "I just don't know.  Maybe there's someone better around the corner."  No there isn't.  Once guys realize that they're lucky enough to find even ONE girl who's willing to put up with them, they should be thankful.  (Damn I HATE those movies!)  Deep down inside we're all pigs.  Yeah - I'll say it.  We think we can handle dating multiple girls at once - we can't.  We're shown and told that we don't want to settle down with just one girl - when in fact we should be thankful we even got THAT far with just the one.  We're not millionaire sports stars or rock stars or dot-com founders with a half-dozen playmates hanging off of us.  Sometimes "communicating" means taking a sledgehammer to our thick skulls.

Any guy in a monogamous relationship for 5 years is already "married".  Putting rings on fingers and changing a last name shouldn't change anything.  Especially if you're living together.  And it doesn't matter if you're 25 or 35 or 45.  "I'm not ready yet." is just a coward's excuse.  When it happens, it happens.  For some it's at 25, for others, 35 or 45 or older.  I was 22.  Didn't plan on it, but I certainly didn't fight it.  We lived together for 2 years (waiting on my Masters and then a year to plan the wedding) and after we said "I do" you know what changed?  Nothing.  After our honeymoon we went home to our same old apartment and went back to life.

Commitment is nothing to be afraid of.

I agree with you, Karen, but only if those expectations are communicated up front. Which in your case with your boyfriend, they were.

Too many times, one person is essentially lying about their intentions. Either that they are open to commitment/marriage when they're not, or vice versa that they are okay with a non-marriage relationship when they are not.

This is a great thread, has made me think a lot!

I agree with you, Karen, but only if those expectations are communicated up front. Which in your case with your boyfriend, they were.

Too many times, one person is essentially lying about their intentions. Either that they are open to commitment/marriage when they're not, or vice versa that they are okay with a non-marriage relationship when they are not.

This is a great thread, has made me think a lot!

I agree with you, Karen, but only if those expectations are communicated up front. Which in your case with your boyfriend, they were.

Too many times, one person is essentially lying about their intentions. Either that they are open to commitment/marriage when they're not, or vice versa that they are okay with a non-marriage relationship when they are not.

This is a great thread, has made me think a lot!

So at what point do you think that this conversation needs to happen?

Last night I was on a second date and the girl started asking me about my views on marriage and kids. I thought that is a bit too early. Most people's answer to "Do you ever want to get married?" is yes or if its right but that’s a long term question that has no real meaning in the beginning of getting to know a person.

So at what point do you think that this conversation needs to happen?

Last night I was on a second date and the girl started asking me about my views on marriage and kids.

Yes, yes, yes. That is incredibly important.

I make sure to mention things like the fact that I'm not sure I ever want kids early enough to get the point across, but not so early as to freak someone out by the fact that I'm already talking about that

I've also been up front with the current BF that it will take either a ring OR a lot of convincing the family if he wants to live together. Because, frankly, if that is a problem, then it won't work. I love and respect my family. I don't think my parents would shun me for moving in pre-engagement, but I know it'd be tough on my mom. If someone can understand that and talk to my parents WITH me, and not leave me to fight my own fight on the homefront, then that is a sign of a solid future.

Didn't work.  On first date with exBF I mentioned one reason the ex² and I broke up was because I don't want kids.  He was ok with it until 9 years into our relationship (when his niece was born) and he figured out he really wants kids. 

Same thing for the ex².  Got mad after 4 years saying "I have been waiting for you to grow up all these time and you still don't want kids.  When is your motherly instinct going to kick in?"

Whatelse do I have to do when someone is not taking my upfront communication seriously??

So at what point do you think that this conversation needs to happen?

Last night I was on a second date and the girl started asking me about my views on marriage and kids. I thought that is a bit too early. Most people's answer to "Do you ever want to get married?" is yes or if its right but that’s a long term question that has no real meaning in the beginning of getting to know a person.

Didn't work.  On first date with exBF I mentioned one reason the ex² and I broke up was because I don't want kids.  He was ok with it until 9 years into our relationship (when his niece was born) and he figured out he really wants kids. 

Same thing for the ex².  Got mad after 4 years saying "I have been waiting for you to grow up all these time and you still don't want kids.  When is your motherly instinct going to kick in?"

Whatelse do I have to do when someone is not taking my upfront communication seriously??

So at what point do you think that this conversation needs to happen?

Last night I was on a second date and the girl started asking me about my views on marriage and kids. I thought that is a bit too early. Most people's answer to "Do you ever want to get married?" is yes or if its right but that’s a long term question that has no real meaning in the beginning of getting to know a person.

That's a tough question, and as many have pointed out the answer can change depending on the person and stage of relationship. Hell if someone asked me today if I wanted kids, I'd say "uhhh I dunno" because I truly don't know. I do know that my answer will likely change.

If you are truly closed to the idea of marriage or having more children, that should absolutely be communicated up front - yes on the 2nd date if asked point blank. No one wants to waste their time (or yours) on a relationship that won't ever be what they want.

What's equally or more heartbreaking, is when you spend years of your life in a relationship being told the other person does want to get married and have kids - only to then be told - just not with you. 

Given biology, I'd be inclined to take a women seriously if she said she didn't want kids. Did ex² say he wanted kids when you were dating?