Irresponsible gun owners (Page 5)

this type of trolling belongs over on ST - in the LR - you are very familiar with posting over there. now run along

except for CruseVegas the discussion has been that.

no one else has been rude.

You realize we are in America right.... so instead of trying to pass laws that work for the Japaneese "Constitution".... try working with the American one.

Can you at least attempt to be serious?

first paragraph from the link (that clearly you did not bother reading since it is against your agenda):

In the fierce debate that always follows the latest mass shooting, it's an argument you hear frequently from gun rights promoters: If only more people were armed, there would be a better chance of stopping these terrible events. This has plausibility problems—what are the odds that, say, a moviegoer with a pack of Twizzlers in one pocket and a Glock in the other would be mentally prepared, properly positioned, and skilled enough to take out a body-armored assailant in a smoke- and panic-filled theater? But whether you believe that would happen is ultimately a matter of theory and speculation. Instead, let's look at some facts gathered 

as to the rest, changing the subject does not solve the PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE of guns

and as to politicizing, NOT talking about it, declaring it to close to a tragedy is also politicization genius

I am 100% serious.

2nd amendment says a right to bear arms does not mean it should be like getting chiclets

You are so blind to your own dogma... whether a CCW decides to take on the duty of a police officer, does not change one single thing... and law abiding CCW holders are not the problem... they have taken the time to put in the most training, agreed to the most regulation, and have undergone the most checking.

If all you want to do is speww dogma, then I guess we are done. If you actually want to solve a problem that works for everyone, then you have me at a time I am willing to listne.

No, I do not approve of mass murder. No, I do not condone kids shooting themselves accidentally. No, I do not condone criminals having guns.... what would you like to actually do about it.... and please try to have it stay with in the confines of U.S. law.

there is nothing in the Japanese laws that goes outside US law. we could absolutely apply those laws here.

CV is one of the people yammering how all that was needed was someone with a weapon in the school - my bringing in the data re CCW is regarding that element. Not dogma

Have you read the Japanese gun law?  It begins by stating 'No-one shall possess a fire-arm or fire-arms or a sword or swords'.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would say that goes just a little bit outside of US law.

A few posts ago you stated an article that indicated in 30 mass shootings no CCW was available to help and probably would have been of no benefit.

As I mentioned those to the best of my knowledge are "gun free zones". Those are places where people with CCW are not able to go with a firearm, if they did they would be breaking the law. So it is no surprise that there have NOT been anyone in those situations legally carrying since it is illegal to do so.

Tell me how you think in a place it is illegal to carry a gun a law abiding person would have one?

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years

nothing in that paragraph would be impossible to do here

I might suggest chilling out till tomorrow so you don't get zapped by a mod...

Sure do and a 22 rifle. Just because I own a few rifles doesn't make me some "I have to have a gun because its my God given right they took er jobs NRA member". Statistically speaking, you should be more scared of a family member getting pissed at you one night and shooting you with your own gun or your kid or friends kid accidently shooting themselves with your gun.  

You know that that will never happen here. Ever. So why don't we get more realistic?

What would you like to tackle first, accidental shootings? Criminals with guns? Mass murders going on a shooting spree, or just plain ole irresponsible gun owners?

As a law abiding citizen, I'm going to follow the law. You want me to register, you want to restrict me to 10 round mags, fine. Absolutely nothing has change for criminals, or mass murderers.

OK... something that would help is a little explanation of US law..... I am a citizen, I have rights. The government can't take those from me for no reason. They can't put stipulations on when how and where I have them. I just have them. If I violate the law, then I forfeit them. I am no longer entitled to certain rights.

So as a law abiding citizen, that has done nothing wrong, I have the RTBA. It's just an unfortunate reality. Another unfortunate reality is the UCLA letting child molesters go because the arresting officer did not the dot the "i" in his name. Or some other scum bag is set free because some procedure was not followed to the letter collecting evidence... even thought he guy is actually guilty. It's unfortunate the press can show the pain and anguish mass murderers inflict on others and immortalize them on TV for ever and ever just to get some ratings.... and in so doing inspire other to do the same. Or how a violent gory video game can't be taken off the shelves because it is protected by free speech. Just like the Westbourough Church is.

But it is what it is. Now... how do we regulate the rights of law abiding citizens when they have broken no laws? What can we do to help curb accidental shooting, violent criminals, and reckless people?

Not legally you can't, or not without going through a reinstatement process that does exist.

No Tony, I never said those rights were unfortunate... just that some use those rights in ways that others disapprove of. I can't remember how many times I have heard the UCLA win some idiotic case to let criminals go... but the fact is they do fight to keep our rights safe. And the next time my civil rights are violated I will probably be pretty happy they are around.

But to go with you on the gun part causing all the deaths. Yes, the gun was the WEAPON that was used to kill those people. It sure as heck wasn't a tool. But what also killed those people is mental illness. What also killed some of those folks was copy cat crimes and the desire to be immortalized forever when the press say all three of your names for the next 30 years. We just don't know.

As horrific and disgusting as all these events are, they are a very small number in the big scheme. There are serial killers that hunt their victims... and beat strangle and rape their victims before they stab them to death. And yes that includes small children. I'm sure they are not real happy it is only a knife and not a gun. How many people have died by serial killer in the last 30 years? How many people hav been the victim of a mass shooting spree. I sure as heck would not to be one of them or any of my loved ones... but the answer is to strip rights from all the law abiding citizens, and "MAYBE" you might do something to stop mass murders?

THERE ARE TOO MANY VICTIMS OF GUN VIOLENCE 
because we make it too easy for dangerous people to get dangerous weapons in America. 
These numbers are not small:

IN ONE YEAR (all ages) 
Î Almost 100,000 people in America
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, or by police intervention.  
31,593 people died from gun violence 
 12,179 people murdered. 
 18,223 people killed themselves. 
 592 people killed accidentally.  
 326 killed by police intervention. 
 273 died but intent was not known.   

66,769 people survived gun injuries
9 44,466 people injured in an attack.  
9 3,013 people injured in a suicide attempt.   
9 18,610 people shot accidentally. 
9 679 people shot in a police intervention.

IN ONE YEAR (ages 0-19)  
Î Almost 20,000 American children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, or by police intervention. 
2,966 kids died from gun violence
 2,037 children and teens murdered.  
 748 kids killed themselves.  
 123 children and teens killed accidentally.  
 19 killed by police intervention. 
 39 died but the intent was unknown. 

14,008 kids survived gun injuries  
 10,038 injured in an attack.  
 165 injured in a suicide attempt.  
 3,588 shot accidentally.  
 218 shot in a police intervention. 

EVERY DAY (on average) 
Î Every day, 270 people in America, 47 of them children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, and police intervention. 
Î Every day, 87 people die from gun violence, 33 of them murdered. 
Î Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence. 
Î Every day, 183 people are shot, but survive their gun injuries. 
Î Every day, 38 children and teens are shot, but survive their gun injuries.

This average annual estimated composite picture of gun violence is based on death certificates and estimates from 
emergency room admissions. Years for deaths and for injuries are not the same because of reporting lags. Source: 
CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting 
System (2008 (deaths) and 2009 (injuries), most recent year available as of 10/3/2011), 
www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/.  Calculations by Brady Center, 10/12/2011. Numbers may not add to 100% because of 
rounding. 
1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC  20005 i(202) 898-0792 iFAX (202) 371-9615 
www.bradycampaign.org
Last Updated 10/12/2011 

EVERY DAY (on average) 
Î Every day, 270 people in America, 47 of them children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, and police intervention. 
Î Every day, 87 people die from gun violence, 33 of them murdered. 
Î Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence. 
Î Every day, 183 people are shot, but survive their gun injuries. 
Î Every day, 38 children and teens are shot, but survive their gun injuries.

This average annual estimated composite picture of gun violence is based on death certificates and estimates from 
emergency room admissions. Years for deaths and for injuries are not the same because of reporting lags. Source: 
CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting 
System (2008 (deaths) and 2009 (injuries), most recent year available as of 10/3/2011), 
www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/.  Calculations by Brady Center, 10/12/2011. Numbers may not add to 100% because of 
rounding. 
1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC  20005 i(202) 898-0792 iFAX (202) 371-9615 
www.bradycampaign.org
Last Updated 10/12/2011 

So now we have figured out some numbers. Like guns have a 35% fatality rate... instead of 100% like most think.

18,000 are from suicide. More people take their own lives that people are murdered.

592 accidental shootings result in death.

So, how do we allow the protected rights of Americans, and prevent 592 accidental deaths a year?

How do we intervene and lower the suicide rate regardless of method and still preserve rights?

Then how do we stop the DANGEROUS people from getting dangerous weapons?

EVERY DAY (on average) 
Î Every day, 270 people in America, 47 of them children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, and police intervention. 
Î Every day, 87 people die from gun violence, 33 of them murdered. 
Î Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence. 
Î Every day, 183 people are shot, but survive their gun injuries. 
Î Every day, 38 children and teens are shot, but survive their gun injuries.

This average annual estimated composite picture of gun violence is based on death certificates and estimates from 
emergency room admissions. Years for deaths and for injuries are not the same because of reporting lags. Source: 
CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting 
System (2008 (deaths) and 2009 (injuries), most recent year available as of 10/3/2011), 
www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/.  Calculations by Brady Center, 10/12/2011. Numbers may not add to 100% because of 
rounding. 
1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC  20005 i(202) 898-0792 iFAX (202) 371-9615 
www.bradycampaign.org
Last Updated 10/12/2011 

convenient that you forgot this one: 

12,179 people murdered

If we enact the laws like Japan we have a fighting chance.

EVERY DAY (on average) 
Î Every day, 270 people in America, 47 of them children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, and police intervention. 
Î Every day, 87 people die from gun violence, 33 of them murdered. 
Î Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence. 
Î Every day, 183 people are shot, but survive their gun injuries. 
Î Every day, 38 children and teens are shot, but survive their gun injuries.

This average annual estimated composite picture of gun violence is based on death certificates and estimates from 
emergency room admissions. Years for deaths and for injuries are not the same because of reporting lags. Source: 
CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting 
System (2008 (deaths) and 2009 (injuries), most recent year available as of 10/3/2011), 
www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/.  Calculations by Brady Center, 10/12/2011. Numbers may not add to 100% because of 
rounding. 
1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC  20005 i(202) 898-0792 iFAX (202) 371-9615 
www.bradycampaign.org
Last Updated 10/12/2011 

12,179 people murdered

I didn't conveniently forget anything. I've said the number myself. There are 2011 numbers and they have gone down.

You are simply being unrealistic. You will never get Japan gun control here. 

Instead of just a broad brush, what do you think would help the suicide rate, the dangerous people from not having guns, and accidents that has a realistic chance of actually happening?

Perhaps she did keep them locked up. Maybe he just knew where the key was. He wasn't a stranger, he was her son she took shooting. You generally do not keep things locked up from your family members.

How would you enforce "proof" of owning a safe/lock. My gun came with a lock, but I do not keep it on. It is not ready fro use with it. I do not have strangers in my house. If my wife shoots me, I suppose the joke will be on me.

Most hand guns come with some sort of locking device. Perhaps they could make them better. The "finger" safes that is just a push combo works reasonably well to actually be able to use it quickly, but I would tell my family how to get it.