Trump

Expert

852

Evergreen, Colorado

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Trump

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

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Master

2802

Minnetonka, Minnesota

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

Thanks for jumping in and being a voice of reason. Phew!

I remember hearing a lot of this back-slapping and over confidence from a lot of these same voices back in 2008 and 2012.

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Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

I'm a registered republican, but it's only because I live in a republican state (primary voting). I'm really a Libertarian at heart with a strong emphasis on fiscal conservatism and libertarian socially. My social views are mostly conservative, but I'm libertarian about them when it comes to government policy (if that makes sense).

I've posted in several other places why the economy is in distress so I won't derail things too much with that, but a general summary is that the stock market is sky high only because we've injected it with steroids through Fed manipulation. If it weren't for the crazy low interest rates and quantitative easing the market would be only slightly higher than the 2008 crash IMHO. You'll notice that the market starts to crash any time there's even a whisper of raising the rates which is a real problem. We can't leave the rates this low forever.
The other problem is underemployment and overall workforce participation. Sure the "unemployment rate" has recovered, but it's not a real measure of the reality of the American worker experience as a whole.
There's no question many people have benefited from Obama's policies, but there's also a ton of people who have been hurt. My insurance guy just left my office a few minutes ago and my current health plan I offer my employees is going up even more than he thought. It's going up more than the cost of a full time employee for the exact same coverage. I most certainly am not benefitting from the ACA and none of my employees are either. They're not going to be happy come January.

I think many people including yourself are very disconnected with the people that support Trump. He is touching on the economy and Illegal immigration which has had a huge impact on blue-collar workers in America. Even several large unions are seriously looking at endorsing Trump because illegal immigration and exporting jobs is killing them.
People can bash on him all they want on a personal level (and honestly it's just in many areas), but it doesn't change the level of support he has and how broad it is. He's way in front across almost every demographic in the Republican party, he's polling very well with independents and minority communities. Depending on which poll you look at, he's out polling Hillary when everyone in the Democratic party still thinks of him as a joke.

I started this race as a Cruz/Paul supporter, but the more I see what Trumps doing the more I'm coming on board. Rand has removed himself from the race, so I'm about 50/50 with Trump/Cruz with Trump starting to edge out front.

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Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

Thanks for jumping in and being a voice of reason. Phew! I remember hearing a lot of this back-slapping and over confidence from a lot of these same voices back in 2008 and 2012.

For the record, I wasn't here in 2008. lol

btw, if I'm over confident about Trump, then doesn't that make you equally over confident about Hillary?

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Extreme Veteran

3025

Maryland

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

This is what happens when the only thing people read is fox news, other murdoch "news" sources, and crazy conservative blogs. They live in the bubble.

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Champion

7821

Brooklyn, NY

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

[Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Far less than McCain/Romney or far less than Trump? Or both?

I was referring to far less than McCain/Romney, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to argue that Obama (in 2008) was less qualified than Trump is now either.
The point being that qualifications for the job aren't as important as many would like to think. it's a popularity contest and that means whoever has the most enthusiasm is typically the winner.

I mostly agree with you about it being a popularity contest, up to a point. I think popularity gets you a ticket to the dance, but I don't think it wins elections by itself. I think it's funny, though, that the "Qualifications aren't that important" argument switches sides every election, depending on which party has the "less 'qualified'" candidate. You can bet that when the GOP was running veteran Senator McCain, war hero and political lifer, against Junior Senator Obama they weren't singing the "qualifications aren't that important" song. On the contrary-- it was, "This guy's only been a senator for five minutes! Now he wants to be PRESIDENT?!" Now that their two top candidates have a combined total of zero days in public office of any kind, suddenly, it's "Qualifications? We don't need no stinking qualifications!!"

We need a business leader who understands how to balance a budget and do international deals that actually benefit our country.

I guess in many ways I'm becoming a single issue voter myself, but the issue is the economy. lol

And what's your evidence that Trump has done either of those things? He's gone bankrupt a number of times, which doesn't suggest, on it's face, that he's that skilled at balancing a budget, and how do you know he's even been personally in charge of the P&L anyway? And as for international deals, you think that opening condos in Seoul and golf courses in Dubai translates to multinational trade agreements and treaties?

His real estate business (which he inherited, btw) has had it's ups and downs, for sure, and the success that it's had as well as all of the success that he's had personally outside of real estate has been largely (in the case of his r-e business) or entirely (in the case of his reality-show business) the result of leveraging his celebrity. That's going to mean nothing in the world of international diplomacy. It might even be a hinderance. Imagine what you'd think of them if Great Britain or France elected a bombastic, billionaire tabloid- and reality-tv star with no political experience as president. You'd think they were idiots.

Whether you think Obama is qualified or not, it sounds an awful lot like you've talked yourself into believing that whatever it is that Trump brings to the table is somehow transferrable to the Oval Office. I hope he doesnt' win, and I don't think he will, but if he does, I hope you're right, because I don't see it.

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: Trump

I covered my bubble with tin foil and I stockpile rifles and freeze dried apricots. I'm good.

Pro

6838

Tejas

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

Thanks for jumping in and being a voice of reason. Phew!

I remember hearing a lot of this back-slapping and over confidence from a lot of these same voices back in 2008 and 2012.

Did I miss something. Seems the overwhelming tone of the thread is disdain for the Gang O' Pu**ies and Trump. That sound you are mistaking for back slapping is face palming!

Pro

6838

Tejas

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

This is what happens when the only thing people read is fox news, other murdoch "news" sources, and crazy conservative blogs. They live in the bubble.

You realize that salon.com is the left leaning equivalent of watching Hannity, right?

Champion

7821

Brooklyn, NY

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

Thanks for jumping in and being a voice of reason. Phew! I remember hearing a lot of this back-slapping and over confidence from a lot of these same voices back in 2008 and 2012.

For the record, I wasn't here in 2008. lol

btw, if I'm over confident about Trump, then doesn't that make you equally over confident about Hillary?

For me, it's less about being confident in Hillary than about being confident that no one among the GOP candidates makes me too worried. The GOP is still spouting the same tired rhetoric that lost them the last two elections (blah blah gay marriage, blah blah abortion, blah blah Obama is bad and might be a Muslim). Yawn. The same rhetoric that their OWN PARTY told them had to change if they were going to win the White House in '16. Trump might package it a little differently, but it's still the same old story. To the extent that he even has a story at all.

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Expert

2180

Boise, Idaho

Subject: RE: Trump

I concur. I just don't get how presumably educated, informed voters can listen to Trump spew his gibberish and think he has even a remote chance of getting the Republican nod, much less a room at 1600 Penn Blvd. The Democrats haven't even BEGUN to attack the Repub front runners. They don't have to-they'll implode all on there own. What will Trumps speeches sound like now that he's NOT leading in the polls. How is Rubio gonna explain his misuse of Florida Party charge/credit cards. And Cruz.....we'll he's just Ted. He's disliked so completely that the establishment Repubs will vote for Hillary before they back Cruz.

Meanwhile the 'Select" Committee only strengthened Hillary in the eyes of moderate Democrats. We're talking about the wife of Teflon Bill, here.

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by jeffnboise

I concur. I just don't get how presumably educated, informed voters can listen to Trump spew his gibberish and think he has even a remote chance of getting the Republican nod, much less a room at 1600 Penn Blvd. The Democrats haven't even BEGUN to attack the Repub front runners. They don't have to-they'll implode all on there own. What will Trumps speeches sound like now that he's NOT leading in the polls. How is Rubio gonna explain his misuse of Florida Party charge/credit cards. And Cruz.....we'll he's just Ted. He's disliked so completely that the establishment Repubs will vote for Hillary before they back Cruz.

Meanwhile the 'Select" Committee only strengthened Hillary in the eyes of moderate Democrats. We're talking about the wife of Teflon Bill, here.

I will vote for Trump just so I don't have to vote for Clinton.......I am legion. You are crazy if you think I'm not.

Edited by Left Brain 2015-11-04 7:40 PM

Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

This is what happens when the only thing people read is fox news, other murdoch "news" sources, and crazy conservative blogs. They live in the bubble.

ok, coming from you this really makes me laugh. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. :-P

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Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

[Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Far less than McCain/Romney or far less than Trump? Or both?

I was referring to far less than McCain/Romney, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to argue that Obama (in 2008) was less qualified than Trump is now either.
The point being that qualifications for the job aren't as important as many would like to think. it's a popularity contest and that means whoever has the most enthusiasm is typically the winner.

I mostly agree with you about it being a popularity contest, up to a point. I think popularity gets you a ticket to the dance, but I don't think it wins elections by itself. I think it's funny, though, that the "Qualifications aren't that important" argument switches sides every election, depending on which party has the "less 'qualified'" candidate. You can bet that when the GOP was running veteran Senator McCain, war hero and political lifer, against Junior Senator Obama they weren't singing the "qualifications aren't that important" song. On the contrary-- it was, "This guy's only been a senator for five minutes! Now he wants to be PRESIDENT?!" Now that their two top candidates have a combined total of zero days in public office of any kind, suddenly, it's "Qualifications? We don't need no stinking qualifications!!"

We need a business leader who understands how to balance a budget and do international deals that actually benefit our country.

I guess in many ways I'm becoming a single issue voter myself, but the issue is the economy. lol

And what's your evidence that Trump has done either of those things? He's gone bankrupt a number of times, which doesn't suggest, on it's face, that he's that skilled at balancing a budget, and how do you know he's even been personally in charge of the P&L anyway? And as for international deals, you think that opening condos in Seoul and golf courses in Dubai translates to multinational trade agreements and treaties? His real estate business (which he inherited, btw) has had it's ups and downs, for sure, and the success that it's had as well as all of the success that he's had personally outside of real estate has been largely (in the case of his r-e business) or entirely (in the case of his reality-show business) the result of leveraging his celebrity. That's going to mean nothing in the world of international diplomacy. It might even be a hinderance. Imagine what you'd think of them if Great Britain or France elected a bombastic, billionaire tabloid- and reality-tv star with no political experience as president. You'd think they were idiots. Whether you think Obama is qualified or not, it sounds an awful lot like you've talked yourself into believing that whatever it is that Trump brings to the table is somehow transferrable to the Oval Office. I hope he doesnt' win, and I don't think he will, but if he does, I hope you're right, because I don't see it.

If you're going to bag on him at least be truthful about it. He's never gone bankrupt, he had businesses in Atlantic City that went BK as did all casinos there. From what I read he was the first to realize they were failing and punch out while many others stuck around and really took a bath. In comparison to committing a felony offense of sending classified information through a private email server (that will likely never be prosecuted) I'd say this is nothing.

He inherited $200m and turned it into a $7-10B realestate empire. So, it's ridiculous to say he inherited his business in an effort to discredit his business acumen.

I agree being a celebrity means nothing internationally, but in comparison to Obama (who is horrible internationally) I'll take Trump all day long.

btw, none of truly know what any of the candidates are going to bring to the office. Based on experience we kind of know what Hillary will bring and we kind of know what the GOPe folks will bring, and that's exactly what the country does not need.

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by ejshowers

Originally posted by Stacers

I'm reading this thread in a state of complete fascination. It's like we live in a different country. Am I missing something?

Disclaimer: I'm an independent. I've voted about 50/50 repub/dem in presidential elections, so I'm admittedly out of touch with the way people on either side think - I'm pretty moderate - fiscal conservative, liberal on social issues.

That said, you're constantly referring to how the Democrats are fighting a losing battle because Obama is such a failure, and the economy is so terrible, and Trump is going to take it all so easily. I feel like we must be talking about completely different people.

My husband and I both own small businesses. He owns a home-building company and has a number of employees. Life for us was REALLY rough when Obama took office in 2008. His business tanked, my business tanked, we almost lost our health insurance because we're self-employed and had no corporate policy. Our friends who had corporate gigs were getting laid off from jobs and losing their homes to foreclosure left and right. I can't even count the number of folks I know who had to take unemployment for an extended period, or file for bankruptcy. We've managed to hang on and have both grown our businesses. We have decent health insurance. We have a home. Things are good right now - NOT gangbusters like 2006 (and I wouldn't want to go back to that, because that kind of bubble isn't healthy), but good enough. All of the aforementioned friends who lost jobs and struggled, after seven years of Obama in office, have steady jobs and have been able to find homes or rentals and get their feet back under them. None of these people consider themselves to be worse off post-Obama than they were in 2008.

Also, you keep stating that everyone is underestimating Trump and that you "feel sorry" for the Democrats. What I think people underestimate is the distaste moderate voters have for the current state of the Republican party. It's a joke. These guys are all a joke. Did you see them embarrass themselves with the Benghazi hearing last week? What a waste of resources! They're all caricatures, and Trump is the worst. I would be embarrassed to be an American if he were our president. I don't like Clinton, and I don't agree with a lot of Sanders' platform, but at least these guys can have an intelligent conversation on a public stage. I don't know yet who will get my vote, but it certainly won't be Trump, if he gets the nod from the Republicans.

Thanks for jumping in and being a voice of reason. Phew! I remember hearing a lot of this back-slapping and over confidence from a lot of these same voices back in 2008 and 2012.

For the record, I wasn't here in 2008. lol

btw, if I'm over confident about Trump, then doesn't that make you equally over confident about Hillary?

For me, it's less about being confident in Hillary than about being confident that no one among the GOP candidates makes me too worried. The GOP is still spouting the same tired rhetoric that lost them the last two elections (blah blah gay marriage, blah blah abortion, blah blah Obama is bad and might be a Muslim). Yawn. The same rhetoric that their OWN PARTY told them had to change if they were going to win the White House in '16. Trump might package it a little differently, but it's still the same old story. To the extent that he even has a story at all.

I haven't seen anyone talking about gay marriage other than interviewers trying to paint them into a corner. Nobodies running on gay marriage or abortion that I'm aware of. We're even in the primary season where people are typically way over into the far right land, but most are fairly libertarian on most social issues that I've seen. I know with Trump he's probably the most socially Liberal candidate that's ever run for the Republican nomination which is exactly what everyone has been telling the Republicans they need to do.

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by jeffnboise

I concur. I just don't get how presumably educated, informed voters can listen to Trump spew his gibberish and think he has even a remote chance of getting the Republican nod, much less a room at 1600 Penn Blvd. The Democrats haven't even BEGUN to attack the Repub front runners. They don't have to-they'll implode all on there own. What will Trumps speeches sound like now that he's NOT leading in the polls. How is Rubio gonna explain his misuse of Florida Party charge/credit cards. And Cruz.....we'll he's just Ted. He's disliked so completely that the establishment Repubs will vote for Hillary before they back Cruz.

Meanwhile the 'Select" Committee only strengthened Hillary in the eyes of moderate Democrats. We're talking about the wife of Teflon Bill, here.

Did you just call me dumb? (kidding)

For the record, I think the same thing about Hillary supporters so no offense taken.

I agree that Cruz is probably not going to happen and Rubio is a joke so he's going nowhere. I'd say the Democrats (er, I mean media) has been attacking Trump with everything they got for months and it hasn't touched him. On the contrary I can also say that nobody has even BEGUN to attack Hillary and she's likely not looking forward to it. With the email stuff, even if she isn't prosecuted she has to defend her serious error in judgement by transmitting classified information that potentially put many American lives at risk.

Bill is a huge asset to Hillary for sure, but I don't think even he can polish her up enough to drag her over the finish line.

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Subject: RE: Trump

btw, latest polls shows Carson dropping like a rock after the last debate.

http://polling.reuters.com/#!poll/TR130/type/smallest/filters/PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20150808-20151103/collapsed/false/spotlight/1

I read an interesting article about Carson's whole campaign. I've always felt it seemed weird but I'm not sure if this is a hit piece article or actually has some truth to it.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/ben-carson-running-for-president.html

I do know that many candidates run knowing they have no chance to win, but they want to build their brand to make more money on the speaking circuit. "former presidential candidate XXX" for the rest of their life.

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jeffnboise

I concur. I just don't get how presumably educated, informed voters can listen to Trump spew his gibberish and think he has even a remote chance of getting the Republican nod, much less a room at 1600 Penn Blvd. The Democrats haven't even BEGUN to attack the Repub front runners. They don't have to-they'll implode all on there own. What will Trumps speeches sound like now that he's NOT leading in the polls. How is Rubio gonna explain his misuse of Florida Party charge/credit cards. And Cruz.....we'll he's just Ted. He's disliked so completely that the establishment Repubs will vote for Hillary before they back Cruz.

Meanwhile the 'Select" Committee only strengthened Hillary in the eyes of moderate Democrats. We're talking about the wife of Teflon Bill, here.

Did you just call me dumb? (kidding)

On the contrary I can also say that nobody has even BEGUN to attack Hillary and she's likely not looking forward to it.

You can't possibly be serious.

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