Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group (Page 5)

Hey David,

Oh how I miss running in the snow - seriously!

Riding to Sufferfest videos - those will provide you a good solid workout.  Remember you still need to get outdoors when possible so you can develop/improve bike handling skills.  You keep doing Sufferfest through the winter and you'll be strong come spring!

Chet,

Was that an actual race or a simulation?  Either way, sounds like you got a good 60-minute workout out of it.

You want to do at least enough swimming so you can remain aerobic in the water during your race.  The bike is key to a strong triathlon.  You can't have a good run if you don't have a good bike  That saying goes to pacing as much as anything, but you aren't going to have good pacing if you aren't strong on the bike; making the bike arguably the discipline you need to work on the most and be the strongest at - and winter is the optimal time to begin working on that!

George,

There is no question that increasing the right kind of volume will make you a better, faster swimmer.  Just adding on "junk" yards/meters won't do anything and may actually create problems.  The right kind of volume is intervals with appropriate rest.  The primary reason we do intervals in the pool is so that you can maintain proper technique - thereby storing proper technique into muscle memory.  Remember that swimming is a highly technical discipline.  You gain more from proper technique than you do from strength.  If you just go out and add 500 meters at the end of a workout - when you are tired - it is likely that your form will break down and the last thing "muscle memory" will see is poor or degraded technique.  

On the other hand, if you were to add 5 x 100 or 10 x 50 with the appropriate rest so you can maintain technique you will be adding "the right kind of volume" and you will get stronger/faster.

To the second part of your question - "and maybe swim more often" - I strongly recommend that you swim as frequently as you can.  Say for example that you are swimming twice a week, 3,000 yards in each workout for a total of 6,000 yards per week (arguably sufficient yardage for a Sprint Triathlon swim).  I would much rather see you do that as 3 x 2000, or even 4 x 1,500 then 2 x 3,000.  The more frequently you are in the water, the better your feel for the water will develop.

Hey Kelly,

I touched on this in a reply to Chet but I will expand upon it here.  At the Ironman distance, the bike is the key to the race.  Don't let anyone tell you any differently. You need to stay aerobic during the swim so you don't exhaust yourself - that is relatively easy to do with a few hours of swimming a week.  On the run, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW GOOD A RUNNER YOU ARE OR THINK YOU ARE!!!  I've seen sub 2:30 open marathoners walking an Ironman marathon. 

If you aren't adequately prepared for the bike, you will have 26.2 miles on your feet for that error to fully express itself - and it won't be pretty.  I don't believe an age-group triathlete can be over-prepared for the bike, but it's VERY easy to be under-prepared.  If it were me, I would be on the bike a minimum of three times each week beginning now.  The aerobic gains you make on the bike will help improve your run, plus the running you would continue to do.

To put this into perspective.  I worked with an athlete that completed Ironman Louisville 2015.  He had chronic shin splints and if he ran more than 9-miles he could not run again for a couple of weeks.  His longest training run was 8.2 miles and his highest volume week was 16 miles in the months leading up to IM Louisville (I wouldn't suggest that as sufficient training volume for anyone by the way).  However, we hit the bike VERY hard.  On race day, he paced the bike to assure a strong run finishing with a 6:18 bike split and a 4:42 marathon (utilizing a run/walk strategy in which he walked EVERY aid station).

The bike is most important.  The sooner you begin getting miles in the saddle, the better.

Just my humble two cents.

Quebec to Louisville is only 1,016 miles.  You could join me there for IM Louisville in October!

Just sayin'! 

Adrian,

Here's how I approach that and have the athletes I work with approach it.

Assuming you have a well thought out schedule or are following some plan, if you miss a workout or are short on a workout, move on.  The next day don't try to "make-up" for the missed or shortened workout.  That almost always has consequences.  On any given day, you don't want to do any more than necessary to achieve the desired physiological adaptations and as importantly, you don't want to do so much that you take away from the next workout or compromise recovery.

You had a scheduled ride of 1:00 but stepped it up to 1:45 even though you'd done the 5-mile run the day previously.  By doing that, you may have attenuated your recovery from the run - potentially doing more harm than good.

You're still at a relatively low training volume so no harm, no foul.  Trust the training you put "in the bank."  Life happens, sometimes, for what ever reason, you may miss a workout or not achieve the full workout as written.  Accept it, and move on to the next day.

David - I did The Downward Spiral on Thursday .  I got the Sufferfest app and have been using it for about 6 weeks.  I think the interval workouts are my favorites.  I'm hoping that by the time spring comes around, I'll have some solid improvement on my bike speed.  

Kathy - congrats on your race!

I did an interesting race yesterday.  It was a trail race, 4.1 mile loop.  It started at 8am and everyone had 1 hour to finish the loop.  Subsequent loops started at the top of every hour after that (so anyone who finished loop 1 within the hour would start loop 2 at 9am, loop 3 at 10am, etc).  Winner was whoever did the most loops.  The female winner did 10 loops, the male winner did 12.  I did 2  but that was my plan so I'm happy with that.  Did I mention that the trail was snow-covered and the temp was 3*F when we started the race?  It had warmed up into the teens by the time I finished my second loop and the sun was out so it actually didn't feel too bad by then.  If it had been a little warmer, I think I would have tried for a third - not sure I would have made the 1 hour cut-off though.  Despite the cold, it was actually a lot of fun to do.

This morning was an 1800 swim and I'm getting ready for 5 miles on the TM right now.  Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Janet

Marc,

I thought that was you and Shane!

Dorm - my normal routine is along this general schedule except recovery weeks:

• Monday - Z4/Z5 - typically VO2 MAX or Threshold intervals
• Tuesday - sweet spot/tempo
• Wednesday - Z4/Z5 - typically over/under intervals
• Friday - sweet spot/tempo
• Saturday - long ride

Congratulations Kathy!

First race of the season, you improved over last year, and if I am feeling the excitement in your post right - you had fun!

You can't ask for any more than that!

Marc,

I have a question for you, actually two.

I follow Barry P fairly closely once there is a decent base.  I am not at all a fan of a "traditional" long run (ex. 16-18+ miles).  I don't see where risk/reward is advantageous for a true long run and with BarryP you can get to 40 mpw with a long run of 12 miles.  However, running purists argue you simply can't do a marathon/Ironman without a true long run.

What are your thoughts on the traditional long run?

In one of my earlier posts today I mentioned an individual I worked with prior to IM Louisville 2015.  He had a chronic shin splint issue and couldn't run more than ~ 9 miles or he was off his feet for a couple weeks - so his longest run in training was 8.2 miles.  We followed a somewhat modified BarryP program (only ran 4x/wk in deference to his injury).  A week before the race, he asked me, "What do I do when I get to mile 9?"  I told him to simply keep running, his endurance wasn't tied to the length of the longest run he had completed.

What would your response have been to the "what do I do when I get to mile 9" question?

Marc ... I remember those 6x4's too and yes they are tough.  Thank for the workout plans - I'm ready to dive in on these!

Ciao ... Dorm

Today was my day off and I really enjoyed it.  Unfortunately, I'll have to go out tonight at 10:00pm to shovel snow off our driveway.  Nothing hard just a nice 45 min Zn 1 aerobic workout.  Our snow here is generally dry and light.  I'll also shovel an older ladies driveway in the morning just to keep it from icing up.

Right now a run outside would be perfect.  The temp is not too cool, the wind not too harsh.  There is only an inch of snow on the roads and there is no ice under the snow to present a danger.  It is also snowing lightly just to make it perfect.  Maybe I'll run my short easy run outside tomorrow.

Kelly - I was considering doing Oliver as well this year but I'd prefer to do the Challenge half in July although I guess they are both pretty local for me.  I liked the advice Scott gave you on training for Whistler.  Consider looking at Gale Bernhardt's training schedule for an IM.  Not to follow it but to see what the schedule looks like.  It is a 26 or 27 week schedule.  

Adrian - I stumbled on this accidentally but after a particularly hard workout or series of workouts I like to go for an easy bike ride or swim.  Nothing strenuous just a 30 to 60 minute swim or ride in Zn 1.  It really helps to shake out the legs and get rid of the stiffness.  Usually I just do it after a longish run or bike ride.

Kathy - Congrats on your race.  Sounded like fun and always nice to be supported by your family.

Thanks Scott - I remember you telling me about intervals.  This week I am planning to swim 3 times and I'll get back to 4 times a week pretty quick.  Then I'll add intervals after my swim once I can maintain my technique.

Spent a couple of hours in the gym today ... 1hour on the spin cycle along with strength training.  I've started with the Week 2 cycling workouts from Marc's workout page.  Doing the spin session after the strength training, which was mostly legs ... well, I was soooo glad to be done.

AMY - SCOTT ... thanks for the tips on the Plantar Fasciitis and the foot is better.  It began mid-October and I've been working since on trying to get rid of it, so thanks again for the tips.

Marc ... thanks again for the workouts, and yes I suffered.  I thought the last 10m @ 95% FTP would never end.  Given the intensity of these workouts, I think I need to do the strength training in combo with either swimming or running.  Today was tough!

Hope all have a good week ... Ciao - Dorm

In my post last night I mentioned how perfect the conditions were for running outside.  This morning I got an email from a friend I swim and race with (funny I think of her as young as she is 52).  She was out yesterday morning with her run group and she slipped on ice and fractured her left clavicle.  On the positive side she hopes to be ready for coffee by Wednesday.  I consider "coffee" an important adjunct to training and race planning etc.

Janet,

That sounds like it would be a lot of fun.  12 laps?  I don't think so!