JohnnyKay and Fred Doucette's HIM/IM focused Mentor group-CLOSED (Page 58)

A few quick words, first congrats on a stellar race at Pleasant Priarie your times are very consistant across the board. I will read the RR after I get back home today. How was the race? I have heard some great things about PP.

I just raced my first Olympic a couple weeks ago and I would say that take an extra day of recovery if your body needs it. Olympic distance races are a bit more intense and can put more stress on your muscles joints, which need to recover before your final push to Racine.

Have you previewed the course at Racine? It is a great HIM that is flat and fast. I will be at Racine too and am now doing a lot of race pace intensity in my training. I am trying to get my body used to that pace across the board and ready. You have about 2 more weeks until a taper should be started which is a lot of time, but I wouldn't make any drastic changes to your training. What are your plans for your longest ride and run?

One final note have you visited the Racine race thread? I am organizing a Saturday night dinner with BT'ers but I do not know if I have you down. Good luck on the final push and see you in less then 3 weeks!

Thanks Ben, I appreciate your thoughts.  I have to say that PP was (in my extremely short triathlon career) the most well organized race I have done.  My negatives were not related to the execution of the race, so VERY minor.  I would recommend it for next year.  Much better than Bigfoot and of course Lake Geneva, which I know you've done 'cause I recognize the run out in your avatar picture.

I am on the Racine thread...not sure about dinner because I am still figuring out logistics.  I'll let you know as soon as I know.  I have looked at the course, and may still go up and ride it (maybe this coming holiday weekend).  Just hoping it's not too hot as we haven't had much heat to train in this summer, have we?  

My long run is up to 1:30 (so about 9.5 miles) and will go up to 2 this week, so probably about 12, which is more than enough I think.  My long rides have regularly been 50ish miles (a couple longer a couple shorter) with a 30min brick at the end, so I think those are ok too.  My last ride is supposed to be 4 hours, but I'll allow between 3 and 4 depending on the day.

I probably won't do too much more new stuff for now, except get a gel flask and maybe a bento box if I can find one that is even remotely suited to my bike.  The CD01 is tough to get a bento box on because of how the cables are routed behind the stem thru the frame.  

Quincy - got to ask about your run pacing.  I noticed that you ran a solid 8:14/mile pace in your Olympic race, but then above you said you were going to be training for 2 hours, and expecting to run 12 miles = 10:00/mile pace.  I also looked at your logs and noticed that based on your HR zones, you do almost all your longer running in Z1.

Just curious why this is the aproach you are taking?  Based on the little bit of data here I would have expected you to be able to train at a faster pace.  Just seems to be a really big drop off from your 10km pace to your HM pace, and you should benefit from some steadier training in Z2 mixed in with some Z3 for shorter runs.

Hopefully you and others chime in and agree / disagree with me.

I train significantly slower on the run than I race.

On weekdays, I tend to do all my runs on the treadmill.  Ranging from 3 to 6.5 miles.  All at a pace between 9:10 and 9:30.  Ironically, my fastest running is during my long runs...but I do it with a group, so we do a lot of waiting at water stops.  So I may be running at a 8:20-8:45 pace while running...but only 2-3 miles at a time.  Take a few minutes to regroup...then run again...the breaks get shorter as the run goes on though since we tend to break off into smaller groups at the halfway point of the run.  Overall, with the breaks, the oveall pace ends up being about 9:15-9:50...depending on how long we stop.

My 10k pace for an Oly is around 7:50-8:00.  I did my HIM at a pace of 8:35.

Point taken - but you're also training for a full rather than a 1/2 and your volume is reallllly high.  I just think that someone racing a 1/2 has the opportunity to push themselves out of Z1 during training - nothing wrong with spending time there (and Fred convinced me to spend more time in that zone while gearing up for my HM). 

So the bad news - the calibration is off on the unit.  It needs the guts replaced, so I have to ship it back to a Cdn distributor.  Problem is I bought in the US, so this may pose a problem, but hopefully not.  I have to get a local bike shop to arrange the return, so my fingers are crossed this won't be a big deal.  On a good note, the Cycleops guys will do it as a warranty repair even though it is a little over a year old and it will then get another full year of warranty. 

I'm just really hoping the Cdn distributor isn't going to cause issues with where it was purchased.  Should find out tomorrow.

Sorry to hear about the hassle you have to go through, but happy to hear another good story about Saris customer service.  Hopefully the distributor holds up their end and you have it back in relatively short order.

Do you have any intensity in your runs, or do you run with the concept of running slower to run faster?

I have been experimenting a lot with my run paces this year in training and trying to figure out what works. I do know that running slower helps with recovery, but am trying to find a happy medium of when and where to incorporate higher intensity runs.

Today I have a 12 mile run planned that I want to run at HIM pace (8:24), this after a 35/4 brick yesterday all done at just slightly over pace yesterday. Curious to see how my legs respond.

Only 'drills' I ever do are some strides.  Sometimes during a short run, often at the end.

I don't have much intensity at all in my running.  As I mentioned before, the most intensity I'll throw in is a few miles here or there at around HIM pace.  Rarely will I ever run at open HM pace...and I will never run at open 10k pace in my training.

I'm still relatively new to running.  Only been doing formal run training for 2 years now.  So my body is still getting a lot of benefit from increasing my base volume.  So right now...my general run philosophy is to train slower so I can train more.  Once I reach the point where I don't have any more time to add volume...or additional volume starts paying less dividends will I start to think about adding more intensity.

Jason - not to knock your approach, but what is it that you're afraid will happen by adding some intensity?  To run faster - well, you need to run faster sometimes.  At almost 1700 miles of running in the past 1.5 years, I'd argue that you should be going faster sometimes and allow the body to adapt to some of the stresses + benefits speedwork offers. 

I seem to be arguing that people need to run faster this week - not sure how that happened.

Took a break from boating with the family and watching the hummingbirds on my patio to check in on you all .

I am enjoying exercising for fitness instead of training to race for now, ahhh.

But you all keep working and I'll read all about it!

Neil,

My approach is based on what my body can handle.  If I add more intensity then injuries and overall fatigue starts to add up.  Again...I'm still very new to formal run training...and my body is still adapting to 30-40 mpw training on a regular basis.  I suppose I could cut my running frequency and my mileage down in exchange for more intensity...but I think the lower hanging fruit is with more volume at the current time.  I also think it's the "safer" approach as far as avoiding injury. 

Again...this is speaking for myself.  2-5 years down the road I imagine that intensity will play a bigger role in my training. 

Using my approach, I'm still seing lots of improvements.  I know there are a lot of other approaches with more intensity that do work...but if it ain't broke...don't fix it.

Same thing happened to me today. Had a 12 mile run done at HIM pace planned for today. Sun beat me down in a bad way. I didn't bring any nutrition, or water for that matter, at all and after 9 miles I called it a day. I would say that I learned my lesson, but it was more of a relearning today. Came home drank some water had a coke and was 100% again within 10-15 minutes.

This is all very interesting to me. I do not put in much speedwork in my run training although I do throw in some tempo runs, but never visit the track. I can feel a difference in my running ability if I throw in more intensity but I usually run anywhere from 8:45-8:00 miles and never really higher then a 156 avg HR (weather dependent) at the highest. I understand and agree with Jason's comment on "hanging fruit", but think that adding just some intensity can go a long way, especially so you know what it feels like mentally and for your body physically to run at that effort. I have been very fortunate to run harder at times and not have any injuries so far.

 I am  still trying to find what works best for me. Should I just build base slowly over time? Or is that  load of BS and I can work off the base I have right now? I have heard of peoples stories proving each right and the other wrong as well as articles and studies. I guess to each their own and a good unerstanding of the load your body can handle can determine what you can dish out to your body.

I think Scout posted something like this in a thread I read a little over a year ago.  I'm sure he's posted it about a thousand times in other threads as well...but that when it really made sense to me.

Another good quote I got from the runnersworld.com forums is

"you don't train fast to race...you train more to race fast"

After thinking about it...I was a 4 hour marathoner at the time.  Respectable...but not "fast".  I thought about my goals as a runner...and I figured one day I'd like to BQ when in the 35-39 AG (6-10 years from that time).  Which would mean I would need a 3:15 (now 3:10) marathon.  So if my goal is to shave 50 minutes, or roughly 20% off my marathon time...then I need to work on my cake now...worry about the icing later.